DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

Helpful Herbert

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Good analysis. In Indonesia, the virus is now endemic and will continue to grow slowly over the next year or two. Even if a vaccine is found in 2021, it won't get to Indonesia until 2022 since the rich countries will get it first, and even then the vaccination rate will be low, it will be an ongoing vaccination struggle like measles or TB. There isn't enough discipline or education in society to prevent spread. A concerning conclusion from this is that schools in big cities will not open again for more than a year, a majority of tourism and hospitality business will fail, and urban poverty rates will rise.

The only hope I can see is that if people can't get infected twice, then herd immunity might be reached within 2 years. Unfortunately it is starting to look like people can get infected twice as antibodies fade quickly (I guess we'll find out over the next few months).
 

centurion

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Indonesia participates in Sinovac research, so if the vaccine works they will get among the first. The human trial is already ongoing in Indonesia.
 

fastpitch17

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The only hope I can see is that if people can't get infected twice, then herd immunity might be reached within 2 years. Unfortunately it is starting to look like people can get infected twice as antibodies fade quickly (I guess we'll find out over the next few months).
Heard immunity is the last remedy one should ever hope for concerning this virus. It would mean 10s of millions infected and millions dead. Not to mention all those who will take medical problems caused by it into the future.

The only way this can be controlled is for government to actually act on it and stop with the hand gestures. People no longer need to be warned, they need to be threatened. It will take the people to control this with proper mask wearing, social distancing, washing hands, and transparency. The government needs to get off their hands and become proactive instead of making excuses and turning a blind eye to reality.

Green, yellow, red? So what? Reality is that this virus is sweeping across Indonesia and the government doesn't want to admit it because they want economy first. Too stupid to face the facts that this virus is what has hurt the economy and it is going to get worse. Much worse. There are numerous areas that need a shut down at least for a month. Close regional, district, city boarders. Get into the areas where things just are not reported and dig for honest answers. Too many areas have people dying and never reported due to lack of medical resources or the stigma some have given the disease like not being buried where you want.

Indonesia can continue infrastructure projects but won't implement widespread testing. It seems like when it comes to PPEs, testing supplies, and ventilators, Indonesia is just sitting back waiting for another country to donate them. If and when a vaccine is available, it will be a crazy time and the program to administer it will be much less than adequate as is most of the programs when implemented.

Now they report at least 72 doctors dead from the virus. How many nurses and related medical personnel have also died? If you lose this many in the medical fields, how does this relate to actual patient care. Poorly I am afraid. If medical personnel are becoming positive, how many people are they in contact with prior to their getting symptoms? If medical personnel are not being protected, you can be assured patients are not being attended to properly.

This disease is out of control in many nations and one simply can look at the leadership of those nations as the primary reason for the disaster. Now, the nations who had had good leadership are starting to see some resurgence and fingers can easily be pointed to opening up boarders even in limited ways.

Unfortunate so many people are so lazy and self centered to be proactive in fighting this. I am 69 and while one may say, on my way out, I am going to try to not hit the exit door in a crowd of idiots. If I can side step that exit for awhile, I will so if that means wearing a mask, social distancing, carrying around hand sanitizer, and not traveling for awhile, no problem. While I may not end up successful in my quest to avoid this virus, I will feel peace that I was not involved in spreading it to others.
 

Helpful Herbert

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Yes agreed, but I think it is clear to everyone that the chance of another lockdown in Indonesia is basically zero - that ship sailed. It was only partially observed the first time, and the population won't accept another one. The chances that the Indonesian backed vaccine is effective is probably <10%, and any vaccination programme would take years. So personally I don't currently see an endpoint unless the virus somehow burns itself out (whether herd immunity, mutation or in another way).
 

R Cameron

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Yes agreed, but I think it is clear to everyone that the chance of another lockdown in Indonesia is basically zero - that ship sailed.
I agree, but it is insanity that mask wearing and simple social distancing seems to already be forgotten by most people. The "new normal" is a complete joke. The only significant change I still see is that most schools are online. I think that is wise, though it does cause me to wonder why it is the only significant action being taken? Perhaps because, unlike businesses, their income remains the same and perhaps they find it simpler and/or cheaper to operate.
 

fastpitch17

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I agree, but it is insanity that mask wearing and simple social distancing seems to already be forgotten by most people. The "new normal" is a complete joke. The only significant change I still see is that most schools are online. I think that is wise, though it does cause me to wonder why it is the only significant action being taken? Perhaps because, unlike businesses, their income remains the same and perhaps they find it simpler and/or cheaper to operate.
The New Normal it would seem is Heard Immunity. Just without admitting it. Yes, it is good schools have gone to on line education but so many are being left out of being educated due to lack of internet access, the cost for the internet, or the lack of having devices to get it on. In the kampung near me the parents have to go to their children's schools once a week and pick up the class assignments. Parents grouping around the school offices as if a social event and then taking whatever they pick up back to their homes.
 

ChrisTex

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Even with schools being online, there is some arguing schools need to open just like they are opening the economy, kinds needs to be able to see their friends, and how the poor are struggling with home learning. To some degree they have a point, but they aren't looking at the domino effect especially since some families have kids that go to different schools. This is one of the concerns teachers in the US have about opening school.

In regards to the poor, one article from the Jakarta Post talked about how one family used their life savings to buy a 1.5j phone and have to go to their neighbors house as the internet isn't that reliable. Those areas I won't be surprised if they decide to just go back to school and not listen to the government.
 

fastpitch17

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Even with schools being online, there is some arguing schools need to open just like they are opening the economy, kinds needs to be able to see their friends, and how the poor are struggling with home learning. To some degree they have a point, but they aren't looking at the domino effect especially since some families have kids that go to different schools. This is one of the concerns teachers in the US have about opening school.

In regards to the poor, one article from the Jakarta Post talked about how one family used their life savings to buy a 1.5j phone and have to go to their neighbors house as the internet isn't that reliable. Those areas I won't be surprised if they decide to just go back to school and not listen to the government.
Or, just stop going to school at all. That is not that uncommon here when parents can't afford schooling for their children.
 

dafluff

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This seems like a bad idea for an advertisment...

Emirates’ insurance for travelers stipulates that if one of its passengers is diagnosed with COVID-19 during their journey, the Dubai-based airline will cover their medical expenses, up to €150,000 (about $176,000). It will pay €100 ($118) per day for quarantine costs – such as a hotel room – for up to two weeks.

And if the worst happens, Emirates will offer €1,500 (about $1,765) for a passenger's funeral.

 

Dave70

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Ask yourself which hospitals in your area still have available beds. For someone who needs ventilator, it’s life or death to be able to get admitted. Perhaps there should be a government website to check bed availability of every hospital around the country so sick people don’t have to waste time transferring between hospitals.

For other type of illness, it is almost impossible to find physicians doing private practice. If you need to see a doctor, you have to visit the hospital. But hospitals nowadays are “high risk” place to be, so best to avoid getting sick or injured as much as possible.
 

R Cameron

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then taking whatever they pick up back to their homes.
I don't know if you're talking about assignments or virus. Of course, it's both. Hopefully they don't linger too long as the science is clear that time of exposure is an important factor.
 

Puspawarna

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Wow. I'm watching a live-streamed wayang performance on youtube right now (not really paying attention, but helping a friend by getting the number of views up) and it's like Covid never happened. People are talking singing, sharing microphones, laughing, sitting next to each (it's one of the intermission sections where they joke around and interview people) all without masks or social distancing. Is this how everyone in Indonesia is acting right now?

(I'm in Hawai'i and everyone is very good about wearing a mask when out in public. At first it felt weird to the point of apocalyptic, but now it seems normal, and seeing all these people in close contact without masks is what feels tragic to me.)
 

Helpful Herbert

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(I'm in Hawai'i and everyone is very good about wearing a mask when out in public. At first it felt weird to the point of apocalyptic, but now it seems normal, and seeing all these people in close contact without masks is what feels tragic to me.)
Who'd have thought that it's actually Indonesia which is the land of the free :LOL:
 

Puspawarna

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"TRAGIC" ? I think you're pushing it a bit my friend !
How so? Since I don't live in Indonesia anymore, I get my news from reputable international sources who say that Indonesia is doing a terrible job of managing the virus. For example:


It's "tragic" to me because I care about ordinary people in Indonesia and I fear that the country does not have the resources - educational, medical, social, what-have-you - to fight the pandemic without unnecessary death and permanent disability.
 

harryopal

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The lock-down process is like shutting yourself inside a house, knowing that sooner or later you will have to go out and perhaps later rather than sooner you will meet the virus. Perhaps the best thing that can be said about lock-downs is that by slowing the spread the medical services are better placed to deal with cases. Meanwhile the impact on jobs and economies is becoming catastrophic.

Difficult decisions to be made by governments because whatever is done will have it's downsides.
 

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