Big Improvement In West Java Schools

[Hawk256]

I try to eliminate salt as much as possible but maybe a grain.

The closest argument being bosom would still indicate topless.

That is a wrong assumption. Some of the Arab women at the time showed the tops of the breasts much like Victorian England. In that case it would mean to cover the entire breast. As far as the rest, I'm not here to convince anyone. If you don't believe, you don't believe and it's not my place to convince you. The only thing I can do is correct mistranslations.

 

[Shadrach]

That is a wrong assumption. Some of the Arab women at the time showed the tops of the breasts much like Victorian England. In that case it would mean to cover the entire breast. As far as the rest, I'm not here to convince anyone. If you don't believe, you don't believe and it's not my place to convince you. The only thing I can do is correct mistranslations.

That is ridiculous for a woman to have to cover up the top part of the Breast. These men really need to grow up and get over their Thirteen year old boy mentality!
What is more absurd is Women having to wear the Hijab, and Burkha. Why should Women have to cover their hair, and sometimes from the top of the head to their feet, even looking through a veil. All in Black, in temperature up into to 40+ degrees! While the Men can were all White cool clothing, some loosely fitting traditional, sometimes not. With no head covering.
If the Women have to dress like this, then the Men should also! Then they would stop that rule fast!
Maybe if the Women had more say in this World, there wouldn't be so much Violence and War!

 

[Hawk256]

That is ridiculous for a woman to have to cover up the top part of the Breast. These men really need to grow up and get over their Thirteen year old boy mentality!
What is more absurd is Women having to wear the Hijab, and Burkha. Why should Women have to cover their hair, and sometimes from the top of the head to their feet, even looking through a veil. All in Black, in temperature up into to 40+ degrees! While the Men can were all White cool clothing, some loosely fitting traditional, sometimes not. With no head covering.
If the Women have to dress like this, then the Men should also! Then they would stop that rule fast!
Maybe if the Women had more say in this World, there wouldn't be so much Violence and War!

Layering is actually cooler in many cases since it takes away direct sun contact but that it a different discussion. As much as it upsets you, it doesn't seem to upset most Muslim women. I have asked out of curiosity and they have no complaint about wearing Hijab. Also it doesn't have to be black to most Muslims, that is a region specific thing not related directly to being a Muslim. Start your own religion and you can make the rules for everyone to follow. When you get a few million members, let me know.

 

[Shadrach]

Layering is actually cooler in many cases since it takes away direct sun contact but that it a different discussion. As much as it upsets you, it doesn't seem to upset most Muslim women. I have asked out of curiosity and they have no complaint about wearing Hijab. Also it doesn't have to be black to most Muslims, that is a region specific thing not related directly to being a Muslim. Start your own religion and you can make the rules for everyone to follow. When you get a few million members, let me know.

You are absolutely Right! It is also cooler to go swimming Naked! That's a good idea about starting my own Religion. I could become Tyrannical with all the Power. Be adorned in Gold and Silver. Have as many Wives as I want. Eat the best gourmet food when others are hungry. Have Palaces anywhere in the World. The list goes on and on.
I will just have to consult my friend Don-Old, He is on a roll now doing the same thing. Everyday he comes up with a new idea of how to enrich himself and all his friends. Or maybe, what new country he can take over. Since you gave me this idea. i will make you my Number 1 assistant, and you will have it all too! Whuppie!

We can call it---The Church of Everlasting Gluttony and Indulgence
What do you think?

 

[serious_fun]

I can't believe what you just said about teachers learning how to be better teachers. It just couldn't be tolerated for a teacher to focus on providing Math, Spelling, Reading and Writing, and learning English, for their students, and less religious teachings. Oh, that would be terrible to have that brought back to Indonesia I guess?

Not just subject knowledge, but pedagogy and good teaching practices. From what I've seen at my kids' school there is an almost total lack of classroom management, ability to write assessment items, create teaching materials, develop courses*, etc. School administrators too! Even getting a school calendar is like pulling teeth!

Another huge issue is the low pay for teachers and university lecturers here in Indonesia, which ensures that intelligent and/or ambitious graduates will seek employment in other disciplines.

*some of the "teachers" ask the students what they would like to study that day!!! I'm not joking. No course syllabus , no school development plan...

 

[Shadrach]

Not just subject knowledge, but pedagogy and good teaching practices. From what I've seen at my kids' school there is an almost total lack of classroom management, ability to write assessment items, create teaching materials, develop courses*, etc. School administrators too! Even getting a school calendar is like pulling teeth!

Another huge issue is the low pay for teachers and university lecturers here in Indonesia, which ensures that intelligent and/or ambitious graduates will seek employment in other disciplines.

*some of the "teachers" ask the students what they would like to study that day!!! I'm not joking. No course syllabus , no school development plan...

And that is Why, Indonesia is a THIRD world country! Ah DuH!
Why spend money on kids, when the Rich only want them to be subservient, and perform all the manual labor!

 

[pantaiema]

Another huge issue is the low pay for teachers and university lecturers here in Indonesia, which ensures that intelligent and/or ambitious graduates will seek employment in other disciplines.

It is a common misconception that school teachers and university lecturers in Indonesia receive lower salaries. In reality, as civil servants, they earn more and work fewer hours compared to other civil servants with similar qualifications, thanks to the functional allowance they receive, which is higher than that of other civil servants.

In Indonesia, all civil servants receive the same base salary based on their rank within the pay structure. The key difference lies in their allowances, such as structural, functional, and additional duty allowances, etc.

If the government were to significantly raise teachers' salaries, it would raise questions about affordability and fairness for other civil servants with similar qualifications.

When comparing the salary, the teacher salaries should be compared with other profession with similar qualification in the country. In countries like the UK, for example, a single parent can receive up to £2,110.25 a moth in benefits without having to work. How many profession in Indonesia will get this figure ? It is irrational to use other countries as the basis of comparison.

Ultimately, everything is relative, as these prominent thinkers have pointed out.

Every year, a large number of young people aspire to become civil servants as school teachers or lecturers, but only a tiny percentage are accepted. So based on the basic law of labour economics, the supply is already much higher then demand. Based on this basic law, increasing the salary even more than tenfold will not help to solve the problem, before the fundamental problem is addressed.

The core issue in Indonesia is corruption, which has become deeply ingrained in the culture. On top of that, wealth distribution remains a major concern. Compared to the least developed countries in Africa, Indonesia is incredibly rich, boasting abundant oil and gas reserves, mineral resources, forests, marine wealth, and vast habitable land in a tropical climate.

Indonesia is undeniably a wealthy nation. It has been previously highlighted that if corruption in the mining, oil, and gas sectors alone were eradicated, every household in Indonesia could potentially receive over Rp20m+ per month without needing to work.

Severe punishments, including capital punishment, such as applied in China could be a deterrent for large-scale corruption. Although Indonesia has the death penalty, it has not been applied in major corruption cases.

If anyone wants to explore this topic further in a new discussion thread, I am open to contributing.

 

[harryopal1]

It is a common misconception that school teachers and university lecturers in Indonesia receive lower salaries. In reality, as civil servants, they earn more and work fewer hours compared to other civil servants with similar qualifications, thanks to the functional allowance they receive, which is higher than that of other civil servants.

In Indonesia, all civil servants receive the same base salary based on their rank within the pay structure. The key difference lies in their allowances, such as structural, functional, and additional duty allowances, etc.

If the government were to significantly raise teachers' salaries, it would raise questions about affordability and fairness for other civil servants with similar qualifications.

When comparing the salary, the teacher salaries should be compared with other profession with similar qualification in the country. In countries like the UK, for example, a single parent can receive up to £2,110.25 in benefits without having to work. How many profession in Indonesia will get this figure ? It is irrational to use other countries as the basis of comparison.

Ultimately, everything is relative, as these prominent thinkers have pointed out.

View attachment 4628

Every year, a large number of young people aspire to become civil servants as school teachers or lecturers, but only a tiny percentage are accepted. So based on the basic law of labour economics, the supply is already much higher then demand. Based on this basic law, increasing the salary even more than tenfold will not help to solve the problem, before the fundamental problem is addressed.

The core issue in Indonesia is corruption, which has become deeply ingrained in the culture. On top of that, wealth distribution remains a major concern. Compared to the least developed countries in Africa, Indonesia is incredibly rich, boasting abundant oil and gas reserves, mineral resources, forests, marine wealth, and vast habitable land in a tropical climate.

Indonesia is undeniably a wealthy nation. It has been previously highlighted that if corruption in the mining, oil, and gas sectors alone were eradicated, every household in Indonesia could potentially receive over Rp20m+ per month without needing to work.

Severe punishments, including capital punishment, such as applied in China could be a deterrent for large-scale corruption. Although Indonesia has the death penalty, it has not been applied in major corruption cases.

If anyone wants to explore this topic further in a new discussion thread, I am open to contributing.

President Prabowo recently announced an increase in teacher salaries.

 

[pantaiema]

President Prabowo recently announced an increase in teacher salaries.

I am fully aware of this. However, the government can only increase the functional allowance for now, and eventually, they will have to raise the salaries of other civil servants as well.

This pattern has repeated multiple times in the past in Indonesia. Let’s wait and see if any real improvements happen before addressing the underlying issues. Funds that should have been allocated for training for teachers have often been diverted to numerous unproductive national, international comparative studies, meetings, and other expenditures. Meanwhile, the headteachers continue stealing money from their own students under the guise of saving for the future, only for it to disappear when needed.

In reality, do teachers and lecturers in developed countries known for producing world class talents and scientists, Nobel laureates earn more than other professions? In fact, unlike in Indonesia where people who want to become teachers, lecturers are abundant, in some developed countries, there is a clear shortage of people willing to enter the teaching profession especially in STEM subject, yet they still be able to produce good quality education.

 

[Shadrach]

President Prabowo recently announced an increase in teacher salaries.

That's a good start. How about increasing the Academic level also? Stop letting students move up to the next grade, if they didn't learn what the previous grade was supposed to teach them! I've seen kids going into the Fifth grade that can't count to Ten Yet! I am amazed as I meet young adults in their 20's that seem to have the intellect of teenagers! They want to work with tourists, but can't speak basic Bahasa English! It's obvious they learned very little of anything academic, or the World, but they sure learned about Religion?

 

[marcus]

... It's obvious they learned very little of anything academic, or the World, but they sure learned about Religion?

From your many posts I noticed that you have been talking "too much" for the Indonesian "taste" , in my view . Be warned that it is very easy for Indonesian Immigration to deport foreigners .

 

[Shadrach]

From your many posts I noticed that you have been talking "too much" for the Indonesian "taste" , in my view . Be warned that it is very easy for Indonesian Immigration to deport foreigners .

Maybe you're right. I should not care about educating the youth, and just keep my mouth shut, and Cower in Fear like the Status Quo

 

[marcus]

Proverb : "A closed mouth catches no flies"

is not to discourage healthy and productive communication, but rather to caution against careless or harmful speech. Selective and thoughtful communication allows individuals to convey their thoughts, opinions, and concerns without inviting unnecessary problems.

From medium.com , by Syed Farhan Shah , Sep 2023 .

 

[serious_fun]

It is a common misconception that school teachers and university lecturers in Indonesia receive lower salaries. In reality, as civil servants, they earn more and work fewer hours compared to other civil servants with similar qualifications, thanks to the functional allowance they receive, which is higher than that of other civil servants.

In Indonesia, all civil servants receive the same base salary based on their rank within the pay structure. The key difference lies in their allowances, such as structural, functional, and additional duty allowances, etc.

If the government were to significantly raise teachers' salaries, it would raise questions about affordability and fairness for other civil servants with similar qualifications.

That's news to me; I couldn't find current data re: teachers' salary scales but found this site for lecturer salaries:

Professional Insights: Understanding Lecturer Salary and Allowances in Indonesia

I was under the impression that a local teacher in Indonesia would earn less than 5 juta to start...

When comparing the salary, the teacher salaries should be compared with other profession with similar qualification in the country.

Why would you say that? IMHO, Teaching is a unique career with unique demands and responsibilities.

In countries like the UK, for example, a single parent can receive up to £2,110.25 a moth in benefits without having to work. How many profession in Indonesia will get this figure ? It is irrational to use other countries as the basis of comparison.

Why are you introducing that data? What does a welfare recipient in the "UK" have to do with teaching salaries in West Java? For your information, I never compared other countries to Indonesia; I stated, in so many words, that it would be highly beneficial for Indonesian youth and for the future of this country to have foreign teacher trainers work here and/or for Indonesian teachers to study overseas in order to acquire modern research-based teaching practices.

Ultimately, everything is relative, as these prominent thinkers have pointed out.

umm, okay.

Every year, a large number of young people aspire to become civil servants as school teachers or lecturers, but only a tiny percentage are accepted. So based on the basic law of labour economics, the supply is already much higher then demand. Based on this basic law, increasing the salary even more than tenfold will not help to solve the problem, before the fundamental problem is addressed.

This "basic law" ? The fact that 'a large number of young people aspire to become civil servants' tells us nothing about the caliber/standard/qualifications of the applicants. From what I've seen at local schools and at local government offices, the standard of the applicants must be low.

The core issue in Indonesia is corruption, which has become deeply ingrained in the culture. On top of that, wealth distribution remains a major concern. Compared to the least developed countries in Africa, Indonesia is incredibly rich, boasting abundant oil and gas reserves, mineral resources, forests, marine wealth, and vast habitable land in a tropical climate.

Indonesia is undeniably a wealthy nation. It has been previously highlighted that if corruption in the mining, oil, and gas sectors alone were eradicated, every household in Indonesia could potentially receive over Rp20m+ per month without needing to work.

Severe punishments, including capital punishment, such as applied in China could be a deterrent for large-scale corruption. Although Indonesia has the death penalty, it has not been applied in major corruption cases.

If anyone wants to explore this topic further in a new discussion thread, I am open to contributing.

umm...okay...

Just a polite reminder that this thread is entitled "Big Improvement in West Java Schools".

 

[Shadrach]

Proverb : "A closed mouth catches no flies"

is not to discourage healthy and productive communication, but rather to caution against careless or harmful speech. Selective and thoughtful communication allows individuals to convey their thoughts, opinions, and concerns without inviting unnecessary problems.

From medium.com , by Syed Farhan Shah , Sep 2023 .

So true, there is also a proverb "You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar." I know you are suggesting to be careful here because certain groups control the Government, and if you cross them, they could come down hard! I'm sure you see that I was just expressing my observation of the poor educational system and its lack of producing bright, intelligent, well trained students. Which is important because they will be in charge and responsible for the future of this country!

 

[Balifrog]

Maybe you're right. I should not care about educating the youth, and just keep my mouth shut, and Cower in Fear like the Status Quo

Not your country, not your business.
As simple as that.....

 

[Shadrach]

Not your country, not your business.
As simple as that.....

Apathy at its finest! Pour me another JD, who gives a Damn anyway?

 

[Shadrach]

Apathy at its finest! Pour me another JD, who gives a Damn anyway?

 

[marcus]

... I'm sure you see that I was just expressing my observation of the poor educational system and its lack of producing bright, intelligent, well trained students...

I referred to many of your posts (in other threads too) , not only that .

 

[fastpitch17]

While I see a number of teachers I never ask their salary. Just as all workers, the reply would certainly be, "not enough". What I have seen in my visits to SMAs are class rooms were many students spend time outside socializing while class is being conducted inside. Classes were I had asked how many students in the class only to find around 60 to 65%of students present. Teachers would tell me that many just don't come. Still, they move in a grade level or graduate. It never seemed like any teacher really cared.

As for the teachers, here, because I do not know about other cities, teachers form a social group amongst themselves. They aquire matching clothing and give their groups cute names. In and of itself, that is fine. Problem is, many times you can find these groups of teachers out and about or they tell my wife about their activities both here and traveling away from here. This takes place during school days. They get substitutes to cover. The teachers I and my wife are familiar with do not socialize like anyone who seems under paid. I mean there are bus trips, hotels, air fares, and shopping. Not normal for an underpaid civil employee.

I know that teachers really need to be sent off to far away lands and get taught proper teaching methods. Since they learned the same thing they are teaching, they also need remedial training in their course specialty. That is never going to happen. The expense alone would stop it. Maybe a few could but that wouldn't be enough to make a difference. A cheaper method would be to bring in foreign teachers and set up programs to teach the teachers here. You would get a larger learning group at one time. Eventually, local teachers could take it over.

Oh, we still have some teachers here that have no idea how to use a computer. From my observations, there is very little desire to actually teach. Only to make sure you get paid. It's sad. We went from all the memory work to pass the national test to teachers not having a clue how to teach anything and students who are not motivated to learn.