Afghanistan situation.

[Balifrog]

, Psaki's comment was made for American media consumption

With that I agree. But the whole world saw it......

they can retaliate effectively with an extreme show of force.

A few B52 raids ?

Come on....

 

[harryopal1]

For those that think this is just like Vietnam, it is not. I was involved with that and this isn't the same. The evacuation in Vietnam was put together in a matter of a couple days and tens if thousands of people were rescued. Afganistan had months to plan.

I understand your argument but the similarity of images of helicopters approaching the US embassy rooftops in Saigon and Kabul with desperate people trying to get out will endure. This is the legacy with which the US will now be stuck.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

As for the evacuations. Many of these interpreters worked for NGOs and private firms. The US is attempting to get them out but one has to ask, where are the NGOs and private firms.

This is a very good point. My company has made a huge amount of money out of Afghanistan, and also Myanmar. But as soon as the sxxx hits the fan they are nowhere to be seen, and just let the locals fend for themselves. I find it quite immoral to be honest.

 

[R Cameron]

A few B52 raids ?

Come on....

The US may have fallen behind other nations in numerous metrics, but USA is still #1 at dropping death from the sky.

B52s? What decade are you living in? That would require American pilots to get out of their pajamas. Easier to use an Xbox controller from Nevada. They can even choose from conventional explosive targeted bombs or missiles with swords.

 

[Balifrog]

The US may have fallen behind other nations in numerous metrics, but USA is still #1 at dropping death from the sky.

B52s? What decade are you living in? That would require American pilots to get out of their pajamas. Easier to use an Xbox controller from Nevada. They can even choose from conventional explosive targeted bombs or missiles with swords.

"Nice" to see the mentality hasn't changed ....

 

[R Cameron]

@Balifrog I left out the asterisk

* Commentary only, NOT an endorsement of USA and/or its military!

 

[Balifrog]

@Balifrog I left out the asterisk

* Commentary only, NOT an endorsement of USA and/or its military!

Ok, that's more like it !

Agreed.

BTW, I am actually watching a docu on Youtube on the US plan to invade Japan (the Abomb was not yet ready)
"Operation downfall, the allies secret plan to invade Japan"
Fast forward 37:00, there were plans for a chemical attack on Japanese cities.

First time I hear about it. But as you said, everybody has them "in case of" !

 

[Nimbus]

America is unmatched when it comes to military power. In both Afghanistan and Vietnam America lost when she no longer wanted to apply and spend military force. Soldiers, bullets and bombs are not free.

Everybody (including the Taliban) knows that America can absolutely flatten them, but everybody also knows that she doesn’t want to do it anymore, at least not enough to flush the entire Taliban out of the country. U.S. simply wants the Taliban to stay out of the airport for now, and that’s not too much to ask.

 

[fastpitch17]

America is unmatched when it comes to military power. In both Afghanistan and Vietnam America lost when she no longer wanted to apply and spend military force. Soldiers, bullets and bombs are not free.

Everybody (including the Taliban) knows that America can absolutely flatten them, but everybody also knows that she doesn’t want to do it anymore, at least not enough to flush the entire Taliban out of the country. U.S. simply wants the Taliban to stay out of the airport for now, and that’s not too much to ask.

If the US only wants the Talaban to stay out of the Kabul airport the US has totally fucked this up. There are 15 to 20 thousand Americans on the ground in Afghanistan and they are not at the Kabul airport. No, they are in other big cities with bigger airports than kabul without internet and most modes of communication. Then there is the Afganistan residents numbering in the 10s to 100 thousand that worked for the US and companies with US contracts and their families. They are not all in Kabul. Being in Kabul right now may not even be the answer. They are not being allowed into the airport. Some have been beaten and killed already.

There are no state department, homeland security, or other necessary personnel to process what people there need. It is still all being processed in the US. Where are the planes to get the people out that are at the airport. If the military wants planes there, they need little to no time to get that done. They just need an order. US airlines complain they have had to reduce flights and lay off people. The government could easily contract them to fly these people out and they would love the business.

Sure, war cost money but the money now needs to be used to end the war properly and you have to support your obligations. August 30 and it's over. Unless the US can push up that time and get access to other airports Americans and their supporters will be left behind to deal with the Talaban however the Talaban feels. I'm sure the Talaban will be happy to briadcast around the world all about how the US abandoned it's own citizens and thise that helped them. The citizens will become negotiations pawns, those that worked with the US will be corpses.

 

[Balifrog]

There are 15 to 20 thousand Americans on the ground in Afghanistan and they are not at the Kabul airport.

Sources please ?
I understand that would be on top of the 5000 military securing Kabul airport ?

Allow me to be sceptical.

 

[hollister]

Interesting podcast on Afgan history + current leaders there

Afghanistan: History Repeating Itself? William Dalrymple

 

[Nimbus]

If the US only wants the Talaban to stay out of the Kabul airport the US has totally fucked this up. There are 15 to 20 thousand Americans on the ground in Afghanistan and they are not at the Kabul airport. No, they are in other big cities with bigger airports than kabul without internet and most modes of communication. Then there is the Afganistan residents numbering in the 10s to 100 thousand that worked for the US and companies with US contracts and their families. They are not all in Kabul. Being in Kabul right now may not even be the answer. They are not being allowed into the airport. Some have been beaten and killed already.

There are no state department, homeland security, or other necessary personnel to process what people there need. It is still all being processed in the US. Where are the planes to get the people out that are at the airport. If the military wants planes there, they need little to no time to get that done. They just need an order. US airlines complain they have had to reduce flights and lay off people. The government could easily contract them to fly these people out and they would love the business.

Sure, war cost money but the money now needs to be used to end the war properly and you have to support your obligations. August 30 and it's over. Unless the US can push up that time and get access to other airports Americans and their supporters will be left behind to deal with the Talaban however the Talaban feels. I'm sure the Talaban will be happy to briadcast around the world all about how the US abandoned it's own citizens and thise that helped them. The citizens will become negotiations pawns, those that worked with the US will be corpses.

I agree that the pullout has been managed poorly, and Biden is fully responsible for this last chapter of American presence in Afghanistan.

The sad thing is that the majority of Americans probably don’t care, beyond the optics of Vietnam 2.

 

[R Cameron]

Sources please ?
I understand that would be on top of the 5000 military securing Kabul airport ?

Allow me to be sceptical.

I agree with the skepticism. Also, how many of the American citizens remaining are wanting to leave but can't? How many are US citizen married to an Afghan, or dual citizens, or US citizen by birth but spent most their life in Afghanistan? Those would add up to at least hundreds, perhaps thousands.

Yes things changed quicker than expected, but the writing was on the wall for 18 months. Any American staying outside Kabul these past few months had already made their decision to stay. Those where were hopeful the ANA would stand would have gone to the ANA stronghold, Kabul.

 

[Balifrog]

How many are US citizen married to an Afghan, or dual citizens, or US citizen by birth but spent most their life in Afghanistan?

I would think that if you marry a local in that kind of country, the first thing you do is make sure your companion has a permanent / renewed or valid visa always ready. Better even a green card.
Love is great, but life is dearer....

Anyway, we'll know in a few days ?

 

[Balifrog]

Vietnam they were thrown overboard, here "rendered inoperable" and abandoned...

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...bandoned-its-ch-46-helicopters-in-afghanistan

And the internal fighting is starting.

Question : is the US going to "support" this rebellion ? Rinse and repeat ?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...an-is-forming-in-afghanistans-panjshir-valley

EDIT : There is the request already

The Washington Post has published an op-ed from Ahmad Massoud himself, which he says he wrote from the Panjshir Valley. The piece, which is worth reading in its entirety, confirms the general plan, at least for the time being, to resist the Taliban and includes an appeal to the United States for support.

 

[ChrisTex]

History did repeat itself. 'Miracle'(1980 US ice hockey team), there was a sign directed at the Soviet Union saying get the puck out of Afghanistan(US get out) and another movie The 9th Company(what some people are wondering now, what was it all for)?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mikhail-gorbachev-withdrew-russian-troops-201046613.html

 

[El_Goretto]

Vietnam they were thrown overboard, here "rendered inoperable" and abandoned...

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...bandoned-its-ch-46-helicopters-in-afghanistan

And the internal fighting is starting.

Question : is the US going to "support" this rebellion ? Rinse and repeat ?

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...an-is-forming-in-afghanistans-panjshir-valley

EDIT : There is the request already

The Washington Post has published an op-ed from Ahmad Massoud himself, which he says he wrote from the Panjshir Valley. The piece, which is worth reading in its entirety, confirms the general plan, at least for the time being, to resist the Taliban and includes an appeal to the United States for support.

I was just about to post these 2 exact articles.

The piece by Ahmad Massoud is heart breaking especially knowing the legendary history of his father.

And I also recommend any coverage by Tyler Rogoway who writes for the War Zone at the drive.com. Always very informative, no bullshit reporting.

 

[Bad_azz]

Just an aside to the actual situation in Afghanistan, but El G's post reminded me of it... a really compelling film if none of you have seen it yet:
A Private War.
The story of the female war correspondent- Marie Colvin. Those out in war zones who document happenings always have my utmost admiration & respect.

 

[Balifrog]

Not sure of the reliability of this news outlet, but if the story is true, this is bad. Then again, not clear if it concerns only "empty" devices or also the databases ?

The Taliban Have Seized U.S. Military Biometrics Devices

Biometric collection and identification devices were seized by the Taliban last week.

theintercept.com

On the other side, this one had me laughing ! The Talibans complaining about F.B. censorship and speaking about "free speech" ......

Taliban Spokesman Accuses Facebook of Stifling Free Speech by Banning Group

At his first press conference in 20 years, Taliban spokesperson Zabihullah Mujahid joined the techlash by complaining about Facebook censorship.

theintercept.com

"THE TALIBAN SPOKESMAN, Zabihullah Mujahid, emerged from the shadows on Tuesday and devoted part of his first press conference to a rant about Facebook, in which he accused the tech giant of violating the Islamist group’s right to free speech by banning them from all its platforms."

 

[El_Goretto]

Just an aside to the actual situation in Afghanistan, but El G's post reminded me of it... a really compelling film if none of you have seen it yet:
A Private War.
The story of the female war correspondent- Marie Colvin. Those out in war zones who document happenings always have my utmost admiration & respect.

You should check out Clarissa Ward who is currently roaming the Kabul streets reporting on the situation on the ground and interviewing Talibans fighters by the road side.