How do you guys invest?

[nbailey]

Ok, great. IB has a two step identification on a computer and my phone where they send a code. So do you have a VPN installed on your phone as well?

Yes, I use NORDVPN and it has an iOS app and I can have up to 6 connections at once. Not had an issue for any investment abroad using VPN.

 

[EUR-DOG]

Code is send by SMS I suppose ? Which will.be no problem.

No, they send a code through the app, it is not a message

 

[centurion]

Has anybody heard about NET89, yielding 20% per month? That madness took over the whole of Indonesia.

 

[Balifrog]

Has anybody heard about NET89, yielding 20% per month? That madness took over the whole of Indonesia.

Well, generally if it's too good to be true ....
Plenty reviews / comments on Google and Youtube if you speak / read Indonesian.
I don't.

 

[centurion]

Well, generally if it's too good to be true ....
Plenty reviews / comments on Google and Youtube if you speak / read Indonesian.
I don't.

Basically, a boiler room, but the number of people that put the money is huge. When the scheme collapses, and it should be soon, the destruction of wealth will be astonishing.

 

[make_batik_great_again]

If you hold international stocks (let´s say US stocks) ... is the US withholding tax from dividends deductable from the Indonesian tax?

fictive example (feel free to correct me if I write something wrong) :

- You get 10 dollar dividends from a US company. Withholding tax is probably 15% (as far as I know people who are taxable in Indonesia are qualified for the reduced tax rate of 15 % instead of 30% on US dividends. Am I right there?).

- Therefore, you will get 8.50 dollar and 1.50 dollar is the US withholding tax.

- in Indonesia your dividends (as well as share price gain after sale) need to be stated within your income return. For the sake of simplicity, let´s say you did not receive other dividends than this 10 dollar dividend. And your tax rate in Indonesia is 25%.

How much Indonesian tax would you have to pay for this 10 dollar dividend?
25% of 10 dollar?
25% of 8.50 dollar?
Or maybe only 10% of that 10 dollar (since 15% taxes were already paid to the US ... 25% - 15% = 10%)?

 

[dafluff]

If you hold international stocks (let´s say US stocks) ... is the US withholding tax from dividends deductable from the Indonesian tax?

fictive example (feel free to correct me if I write something wrong) :

- You get 10 dollar dividends from a US company. Withholding tax is probably 15% (as far as I know people who are taxable in Indonesia are qualified for the reduced tax rate of 15 % instead of 30% on US dividends. Am I right there?).

- Therefore, you will get 8.50 dollar and 1.50 dollar is the US withholding tax.

- in Indonesia your dividends (as well as share price gain after sale) need to be stated within your income return. For the sake of simplicity, let´s say you did not receive other dividends than this 10 dollar dividend. And your tax rate in Indonesia is 25%.

How much Indonesian tax would you have to pay for this 10 dollar dividend?
25% of 10 dollar?
25% of 8.50 dollar?
Or maybe only 10% of that 10 dollar (since 15% taxes were already paid to the US ... 25% - 15% = 10%)?

You need to consult your own tax consultant, this is not financial advice, etc. :

1. Indonesia charges a flat rate (PPh final) of 10% for dividends. Since it is PPh final, it doesn't take into account your income levels etc.
2. Starting this year, Indonesia waives dividend taxes if you invest it in almost any vehicle (even just leaving it in a bank account) in Indonesia for 3 years.
3. You need to figure out how US tax treaty with Indonesia handles dividends, if any.

 

[pantaiema]

If your credit card gives you cash reward, just use it and pay it off before the bank add interest.

Mine gave me 2- 5% cash reward back depending on the purchase. I pay the balance off each time I get pay check (twice a month). Never pay the interest. I collect the reward within one year. By the end of the year I have cash reward collected normally around US$ 2K.

2- 5% cash reward back is huge. Is that cashback from ANY shop, platform or you have to choose particular one appointed by your Credit card providers. What normally happen with cashback from specific shops is that you get cashback but you lost more as in many cases you could buy the same, similar or substitute items from other shops for a cheaper or heavily discounted price.

I know in Indonesia many Creditcard providers are working together with restaurant to get new customers. The resurant will proveide a heavily discounted price for using a particular Creditcard during the promotion periods.

 

[pantaiema]

Indonesian brokers only have local stocks, so if you want to trade other markets you would need a broker from elsewhere.

So for someone living in Indonesia who have been using a well known regulated foreign broker, such as Interactive Brokers, Fidelity, Vanguard, TD Ameritrade, Charles Scwab, Pepperstone, and latest new investment apps such as WeBull, Robinhood, Trading 212, eToro, FreeTrade, etc. How do they manage their investment ??

I am aware it is online so you could still access it if you have internet access. But AFAIK you will need to use VPN to access it. I know a few indonasian are using foreign Brokers with thease way. If the use of VPN to access foreign investment online, apps is illegal in Indonesia or stil in the grey area, I am not quite sure??

 

[pantaiema]

Has anybody heard about NET89, yielding 20% per month? That madness took over the whole of Indonesia.

We finally know how all of these bogus Binary options, Robo Trading such as Fahrenheit, DNA Pro, (NET89, ATG/ATC will probably follow) have ended up now ?? It is an apparent danger of investing using investment platform in Indonesia. The watchdogs, the regulators are always lagging behind the scammers. And it seems so many youngsters in Indonesia are not using their rationals to make such an important decision. They have been blindfolded by getting rich quicker. 80/20 win rate, 20% a month return ? OMG less than a minute search you will find that even the best traders on earth, the billionaire investors such as Warren Buffet, Peter Lynch, Jim Simmons can not get that return.

Keep in mind trading is a zero sum game. If there was such a wonderful robot could make 80/20 win rate, 20% a month (simple equate 240% a year) why do they need to sell it to other people, just to get more competitors in the market rather then keeping it for themselves ?? You could get a Loan for 10% interest from the bank and do trading/invest you still have a margin of 230% to win. Let alone you trade with margin using 100X+ leverage.

 

[snpark]

I do gold futures options trading through a legal registered company here and they turned 450jt into 830 in a month.
I don't pay them anything. They of course get a commission on every trade but they didn't "sell" me any platform.
I went to their office. I met them.
They have analysts etc. They just trade on volatility. No robot. Fully licenced by OJK.

I get updates daily and have full control and decision over the trades.

I know one of the girls and she's been there a couple of years and I was always intrigued by her fb and ig posts so I gave her time to get trained and then understand what she was doing. Then I said to her if you can get me 5jt a month from 100jt I would be thrilled compared to 5jt a year / 5% in a year from a bank (example)

I started with 250jt and she had made me 6jt 18 minutes later.

The rest is history. I gave her another 100 then 2 x 50 and about to send 50 more to make it 500.
My account balance is 830jt at the moment, all my money can be withdrawn any time I want in full etc. I dictate the risk and margin %

I wish I started it earlier. Very impressed with her and the company.

Feel free to DM for more personal private info or to contact her directly with questions
I think you can open an account with 50jt min.

 

[snpark]

By the way this is not an MLM or boiler room or crypto currency bitcoin blockchain trading etc.

This is genuine gold futures options trading. Obviously gold is easy during a war
If you know what to do you can make a lot of money legitimately.

 

[dafluff]

So for someone living in Indonesia who have been using a well known regulated foreign broker, such as Interactive Brokers, Fidelity, Vanguard, TD Ameritrade, Charles Scwab, Pepperstone, and latest new investment apps such as WeBull, Robinhood, Trading 212, eToro, FreeTrade, etc. How do they manage their investment ??

I am aware it is online so you could still access it if you have internet access. But AFAIK you will need to use VPN to access it. I know a few indonasian are using foreign Brokers with thease way. If the use of VPN to access foreign investment online, apps is illegal in Indonesia or stil in the grey area, I am not quite sure??

There is nothing illegal about using a foreign-based broker from Indonesia.

 

[Will_M]

Why would you use a foreign based investment app / company (like Interactive Investor / Hargreaves Landsdown) and be subject to capital gains tax

 

[R Cameron]

they turned 450jt into 830 in a month

In the past year the biggest one month swing in gold price was about a 13% increase from early February to early March. Futures markets were very similar. The only conceivable way they legitimately made an 85% gain in a single month would be through extremely risky options and day trading and getting exceptionally lucky that month. If they could average a 5% monthly return they would be literally the best trader in the world, better than every human, supercomputer, or giant firm full of statisticians and supercomputers.

Or, it's a Ponzi scheme.

My account balance is 830jt at the moment, all my money can be withdrawn any time I want in full etc. I dictate the risk and margin %

Have you tested pulling your money out? All of it? Try it. Of course it's possible for Ponzi schemes to let people make full withdrawals, it's only when too many at once withdrawal their money that they become insolvent, but their reaction to a full withdrawal would perhaps give a glimpse of their true nature.

 

[snpark]

In the past year the biggest one month swing in gold price was about a 13% increase from early February to early March. Futures markets were very similar. The only conceivable way they legitimately made an 85% gain in a single month would be through extremely risky options and day trading and getting exceptionally lucky that month. If they could average a 5% monthly return they would be literally the best trader in the world, better than every human, supercomputer, or giant firm full of statisticians and supercomputers.

Or, it's a Ponzi scheme.


Have you tested pulling your money out? All of it? Try it. Of course it's possible for Ponzi schemes to let people make full withdrawals, it's only when too many at once withdrawal their money that they become insolvent, but their reaction to a full withdrawal would perhaps give a glimpse of their true nature.

They make 30 or 40 trades a day, if you want me to send you the last 30 days trades you can see yourself how they do it, its not difficult to bet $10,000 on something going up a point or 2 and then betting $10,000 it will go down a point or 2

I work in finance so I am aware of how futures options etc work, likewise the risk
It isn't a ponzi scheme because it is my own account, my own money

I didn't post to get mocked or ridiculed, if you want to contact them yourself, you can. I get nothing from it except seeing my friend have more clients and build up her network.

There is no joining fee or anything, someone asked how do I invest, so I told them.

 

[pantaiema]

Why would you use a foreign based investment app / company (like Interactive Investor / Hargreaves Landsdown) and be subject to capital gains tax

Tax Implication is a good point. Given that you relocate to Indonesia just for a contract work for instance and you have not given up your nationality, I wonder could people not continue using their tax free investment such as ISA, SIPP and access it using VPN?

I think the main problem with using an Indonesian recognisable brokers, (e.g BAPEPAM-OJK approved) you could only get Indonesian stocks, ETFs. You can not get access to International Stocks/ETFs, OEICs. You could not trade, invest in British Petroleum, Royal Dutch Shell, Apple, Google, Meta (Facebook), Tesla, or International ETFs.

 

[R Cameron]

I work in finance so I am aware of how futures options etc work

If you work in finance you must know how beyond exceptional averaging 5% monthly return would be, right? Like more than 3x better than "the best". Do you acknowledge those are world-leading returns by a huge margin?

its not difficult to bet $10,000 on something going up a point or 2 and then betting $10,000 it will go down a point or 2

It's exceptionally difficult to do that consistently on the right side. As you said, it's a "bet".

It isn't a ponzi scheme because it is my own account, my own money

If they are making 30-40 trades a day, they must have control of your account, your money, no?

I didn't post to get mocked or ridiculed, if you want to contact them yourself, you can. I get nothing from it except seeing my friend have more clients and build up her network.

I have not mocked or ridiculed, this is such an incredible claim that it should be called out and questioned, and at least be a caution to others who may be more financially naive.

 

[pantaiema]

In the past year the biggest one month swing in gold price was about a 13% increase from early February to early March. Futures markets were very similar. The only conceivable way they legitimately made an 85% gain in a single month would be through extremely risky options and day trading and getting exceptionally lucky that month. If they could average a 5% monthly return they would be literally the best trader in the world, better than every human, supercomputer, or giant firm full of statisticians and supercomputers.

Or, it's a Ponzi scheme.

Apart from the legends Jim Simmons I have not heard anyone else, even the best current traders on earth could make a monthly return of 5% (e.g 60% year) consistently. Jim Simmons with Renaissance Medallion fund managed to get an avarage return of 66% over ten years, but he is now retired.

What Jim Simons – One Of The World’s Most Successful Investors – Can Teach Us About Fintech

Jim Simons is arguably the world’s best investor. What is less appreciated however, are the leadership lessons the founding and scaling of Renaissance Technologies offers. Five key lessons emerge.

www.forbes.com

An initial outlay of $100,000 with 5% of monthly compounding will turn that into around $1.9m in just five years.
The best current traders might still get that return in good years but not consistently over the long term.
Gold is a well-known hedging against inflation; and inflation is currently the highest since 40 years ago in the US. So no wonder those who started investing in gold since the 4th quarter of 2021, will make a very good return. So when the US government manage to control inflation it will fall dramatically. Similarly to Crude Oil, due to war in Ukraine and supply chain disruption. And if the war in Ukraine is over all will be back to normal.

Or, it's a Ponzi scheme.

Have you tested pulling your money out? All of it? Try it. Of course it's possible for Ponzi schemes to let people make full withdrawals, it's only when too many at once withdrawal their money that they become insolvent, but their reaction to a full withdrawal would perhaps give a glimpse of their true nature.

With the Ponzi Pyramid scheme the one on the top of the pyramid will get paid from new members. So the one on the top will always make a good return. It is only that when there is no more new members interested in joining, the rug is pulled, the people on the bottom of the pyramid will lose their money. There is no more money left in the system to get their initial investment back as this has been used to pay the previous recruiters / affiliators. This is what has happened in DNA Pro, Fahrenheit in Indonesia. ATG/ATC, NET89 and other similar schemes might follow. If something sounds too good to be true it probably is.

 

[Jaime C]

It’s easy to ride a wave in the short term and get big gains. It’s entirely different to average 50% or more gains, year after year for 10-20 years.

A very successful ETF might return 30-40% in a great year, and lose 10-15% in a bad year. If they’re averaging 25% a year for a decade, they’re doing great.

The reason these brokers exist is to get fees on the transactions. If it was guaranteed, they’d just be doing it to make themselves money. People get greedy, and put larger and larger sums in, until a bad trade wipes them out.