How do you guys invest?

waarmstrong

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
2,439
DKI real property, excluding perhaps expat & upper-crust catering units, is not a renter's market. This statement must be mitigated a bit for the past 10 to 12 months due to the pandemic's impact on the economy and job market. But to my thinking, this dip equates to a buying opportunity, if one has the option to look beyond the small world of the expat community.
 

R Cameron

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
804
12% guaranteed is an excellent return. That must be in IDR, correct? If I could find 12% guaranteed in USD I would put every penny into it and never look back. But only after doing a lot of research, because 12% guaranteed is perhaps too good to be true and possibly a Ponzi scheme.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
DKI real property, excluding perhaps expat & upper-crust catering units, is not a renter's market. This statement must be mitigated a bit for the past 10 to 12 months due to the pandemic's impact on the economy and job market. But to my thinking, this dip equates to a buying opportunity, if one has the option to look beyond the small world of the expat communityi

DKI real property, excluding perhaps expat & upper-crust catering units, is not a renter's market. This statement must be mitigated a bit for the past 10 to 12 months due to the pandemic's impact on the economy and job market. But to my thinking, this dip equates to a buying opportunity, if one has the option to look beyond the small world of the expat community.
I personally was thinking, and wondering about buying something for the natives and renting it out to them, middle low.


It's seems like Snpark is on a totally different level than me. He seems like he has done very well for himself.


@snpark :

Your input was very insightful and those are the kind of things that I wanted to know about Indonesia. But a was thinking on the lower end and not the higher end. Thank you for you input.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
12% guaranteed is an excellent return. That must be in IDR, correct? If I could find 12% guaranteed in USD I would put every penny into it and never look back. But only after doing a lot of research, because 12% guaranteed is perhaps too good to be true and possibly a Ponzi scheme.
It's IDR and it's a special deal. It was a miracle indeed.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
I imagine that converting a building to Kosts can be very very lucrative in Jakarta but a huge hassle to manage.
I'm not sure I'm up for the managing, but buying a house or room rent and renting it about for year without worrying about, would be great.
 

Will_M

Active Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
50
From what I’ve seen in the quality of buildings in Bandung, I’d be extremely reluctant to invest in property in Indonesia. With constant renovations and on going repairs I can’t imagine you’d get anywhere close to a decent return. Most houses in Bandung are advertised with yearly rent at 5% market value and remained empty, pre-Covid. Especially in newer areas such as kota baru parahyangan.

Buying a property with a view of HMO is possible but not entirely sure it’s worth the hassle.

I keep money I need for day to day activities in IDR, the rest is transferred (usually monthly) into a USD managed platform invested in a number of low risk and high risk multi asset funds. I do pay for a fund manager (1%PA) but performance has been strong in my first two years of investing so for the time being I will stick with this method and feel no reason to try anything else if my investments remain on track to match my retirement needs.

Agree with the above that 12% in a safe investment is amazing and I would jump at the chance to achieve the year on year (if in USD).

I have to confess that Crypto currencies were a temptation but as mentioned here they are so volatile without reason. I’m staying clear, even with all the hype of the last few months. I remember last week seeing Grayscale bit coin (GBTC) fell sekitar 22% in 2 days, for reasons not entirely clear.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
From what I’ve seen in the quality of buildings in Bandung, I’d be extremely reluctant to invest in property in Indonesia. With constant renovations and on going repairs I can’t imagine you’d get anywhere close to a decent return. Most houses in Bandung are advertised with yearly rent at 5% market value and remained empty, pre-Covid. Especially in newer areas such as kota baru parahyangan.

Buying a property with a view of HMO is possible but not entirely sure it’s worth the hassle.

I keep money I need for day to day activities in IDR, the rest is transferred (usually monthly) into a USD managed platform invested in a number of low risk and high risk multi asset funds. I do pay for a fund manager (1%PA) but performance has been strong in my first two years of investing so for the time being I will stick with this method and feel no reason to try anything else if my investments remain on track to match my retirement needs.

Agree with the above that 12% in a safe investment is amazing and I would jump at the chance to achieve the year on year (if in USD).

I have to confess that Crypto currencies were a temptation but as mentioned here they are so volatile without reason. I’m staying clear, even with all the hype of the last few months. I remember last week seeing Grayscale bit coin (GBTC) fell sekitar 22% in 2 days, for reasons not entirely clea

From what I’ve seen in the quality of buildings in Bandung, I’d be extremely reluctant to invest in property in Indonesia. With constant renovations and on going repairs I can’t imagine you’d get anywhere close to a decent return. Most houses in Bandung are advertised with yearly rent at 5% market value and remained empty, pre-Covid. Especially in newer areas such as kota baru parahyangan.

Buying a property with a view of HMO is possible but not entirely sure it’s worth the hassle.

I keep money I need for day to day activities in IDR, the rest is transferred (usually monthly) into a USD managed platform invested in a number of low risk and high risk multi asset funds. I do pay for a fund manager (1%PA) but performance has been strong in my first two years of investing so for the time being I will stick with this method and feel no reason to try anything else if my investments remain on track to match my retirement needs.

Agree with the above that 12% in a safe investment is amazing and I would jump at the chance to achieve the year on year (if in USD).

I have to confess that Crypto currencies were a temptation but as mentioned here they are so volatile without reason. I’m staying clear, even with all the hype of the last few months. I remember last week seeing Grayscale bit coin (GBTC) fell sekitar 22% in 2 days, for reasons not entirely clear.




So it's good to know that 12% is good. I wish it was USD too. Better than nothing.




Does anyone have much experience with stocks in Indonesia?


If 12 % is as good as it's going to get, then I might as well place more into that investment.




By the way, I'm in the mountains of south Bandung. We got a new building up. Three levels. We have so many issues with it. Unbelievable.
 

dafluff

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,938
So it's good to know that 12% is good. I wish it was USD too. Better than nothing.

Does anyone have much experience with stocks in Indonesia?

If 12 % is as good as it's going to get, then I might as well place more into that investment.

12% is good, but remember it's not risk-free. There are tons of Indonesian investment schemes that have failed spectacularly recently, including ones run by the government. Remember if these investments could qualify for regular loans, they would have done that at a much lower rate instead of paying you 12%. Probably a good idea to not put all your eggs in one basket.

I have invested in Indonesian stocks for over 15 years now, it's by far the best returning investment I have, but I would never recommend putting more than what you would be comfortable losing half of. My worst yearly return was around -35% and the best was +85%. It is a volatile market. When I began investing, the entire Indonesian market cap was smaller than MSFT.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
12% is good, but remember it's not risk-free. There are tons of Indonesian investment schemes that have failed spectacularly recently, including ones run by the government. Remember if these investments could qualify for regular loans, they would have done that at a much lower rate instead of paying you 12%. Probably a good idea to not put all your eggs in one basket.

I have invested in Indonesian stocks for over 15 years now, it's by far the best returning investment I have, but I would never recommend putting more than what you would be comfortable losing half of. My worst yearly return was around -35% and the best was +85%. It is a volatile market. When I began investing, the entire Indonesian market cap was smaller than MSFT.
The 12% is a close friend of mine that supports what I do. So he decided to help me out.



Regarding the scams, that's why I'm asking and reading as much as I can.




Stocks:

Thanks for the insight. So I thought I read that on an average it's a yearly return of about 25%. Did I imagine that, or does that sound about right?

Really appreciate the numbers and details you gave, helps me get a better idea.



I only have about 10k in IDX. So Im wondering if I should stay or move that out and invest in something better.


But so far it sounds like the 12 percent is as good as it gets. So I think what I took so far from the combined information:

1. Stocks in Indonesia, long term, only 20% of total cash

2. Stay away from property, unless I have time to manage it by renting it out as a hostel or something of that sort.

3. Don't be greedy.



These were my biggest take aways thus far.


Bitcoin I'm skeptical and still gathering info.



A friend gifted me ETH, so that's why I considered if I should add more or just let it grow and ignore it.
 

snpark

Well-Known Member
Cager
Joined
Sep 30, 2016
Messages
2,041
Yes building a kos guesthouse is far more lucrative and given the amount of unemployment these days finding a competent manager isn't so hard. An ex hotel department supervisor would be ideal, remember most of the tasks are delegated to maintenance, laundry etc and you only really need one good with accounts and paperwork.

It's a lot easier to find 30 tenants to pay $250 a month than 1 expat to pay $3500 a month

Do the math.
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
By the way, this community has been such a blessing. Helps navigates through all the pitfalls and walls. In speeds up the learning process too. So I'm very grateful for all the people that share, are open, and give input.


I'm overly grateful for all those that have gone before and are willing to share and help those of less experience.


So thank you all for all the help.🙏
 

Daniel Gomez

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2019
Messages
33
Yes building a kos guesthouse is far more lucrative and given the amount of unemployment these days finding a competent manager isn't so hard. An ex hotel department supervisor would be ideal, remember most of the tasks are delegated to maintenance, laundry etc and you only really need one good with accounts and paperwork.

It's a lot easier to find 30 tenants to pay $250 a month than 1 expat to pay $3500 a month

Do the math.
Right, that's what I was thinking, quantity seems to rule indonesia, as a pose to quality.
 

waarmstrong

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
2,439
With the quality of construction in indonesia I very much doubt you wouldnt have to face some issues during the year.
The standard Indonesian protocol is that upkeep is the tenant's responsibility.
 

dafluff

Moderator
Moderator
Cager
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
Messages
3,938
Stocks:

Thanks for the insight. So I thought I read that on an average it's a yearly return of about 25%. Did I imagine that, or does that sound about right?

Not even close. Let's just go by the index, since the average investor is lucky to match that. In 2000, JKSE was ~400, now it is ~6,000. That's about 14-15% return. As always, past results are not a guarantee for future performance.
 

waarmstrong

Well-Known Member
Charter Member
Cager
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
2,439
If you are calculating returns over the long term, the depreciation of the Rupiah probably should be factored in, as well. For example, if investing your USD in the JKSE at the January 2000 average of 7,445 per 1 USD and then cashed out in January 2021, it would take close to twice as many rupiah to get your dollar back.
 

Follow Us

Latest Expat Indo Articles

Latest Activity

New posts Latest threads

Latest Tweets by Expat Indo

Online Now

Newest Members

Forum Statistics

Threads
4,722
Messages
72,153
Members
2,070
Latest member
michaelgellar
Top Bottom