War

A pretty good documentary by D.W. about how we got in this situation over the last years. As usual it is not black / white, and the personality / inexperience of the UKR president has not helped.


There is part 2 also.
 
The dictator apoligists amongst us dislike the US and its policies , do not forget you would all be speaking German or Russian now without their assistance in WW2 .

Slaves to the Master race .
 
Why is russia intentionally targeting civilians? Bodies in the streets, houses and businesses destroyed.
 
scouser59 said:
The dictator apoligists amongst us dislike the US and its policies , do not forget you would all be speaking German or Russian now without their assistance in WW2 .

Slaves to the Master race .
Click to expand...
Check your history lessons...
  • date and reason USA declared war on Germany
  • position of USA before the declaration of war ( hint : collaboration with the Vichy government)

But nevertheless we respect the sacrifice of all Allied soldiers who fought to liberate Europe including the Soviets.
 
Dave70 said:
Conventional warfare is certainly possible, Putin has publicly declared that Russia will not be the FIRST to use nuclear weapons but will retaliate with the same if an enemy used it on Russia.

Isn't NATO and the West also trying to gain influence on former Soviet states? Did you forget how the Orange Revolution started in Ukraine (and who was behind it)?
Click to expand...
During a press conference a week or so ago Putin said something to the effect of 'NATO can probably defeat Russia in a conventional war but we have very good nuclear capabilities and we won't hesitate to use them if needed'. That's not in line with the bolded text above.
 
Below video is Putin's address before launching military intervention in Ukraine including Russia's goals in Ukraine.

 
Bob said:
During a press conference a week or so ago Putin said something to the effect of 'NATO can probably defeat Russia in a conventional war but we have very good nuclear capabilities and we won't hesitate to use them if needed'. That's not in line with the bolded text above.
Click to expand...

Boy oh boy, I heard what I heard, Putin said it himself. I have to find it (the video on YouTube), in case you have it, please share it here so we can all listen to it.
 
Dave70 said:
Boy oh boy, I heard what I heard, Putin said it himself. I have to find it (the video on YouTube), in case you have it, please share it here so we can all listen to it.
Click to expand...

I found the video, you can watch it entirely, it's just 2 minutes or you can jump to 1:10 where he said Russia cannot be the one to initiate a nuclear strike.

 
Dave70 said:
Boy oh boy, I heard what I heard, Putin said it himself. I have to find it (the video on YouTube), in case you have it, please share it here so we can all listen to it.
Click to expand...
I saw the address on TV, probably on NHK or Al-Jazeera. It would have been the evening of the 8th or so. Maybe it was the press conference after the meeting with Macron.
 
Last edited:
Putin is very similar to Suharto when he invaded and annexed East Timor. Both are dictators who can’t tolerate a neighbor having radically different ideology and alliance. Do not justify dictators, just don’t.
 
a simplified explanation a friend posted:

The Ukraine & Russia crisis In simple terms for those that have no idea what is going on.
-Ukraine used to be in an abusive relationship with Russia, feeding him, letting him use her car & giving him whatever he asked for until she built up the confidence to call it quits back in 1991
-Since then Ukraine has been working on herself, becoming a strong independent woman with help from friends like France, America, Poland etc. offering her support, loaning her money, & helping her find her way.
-Ukraine has been enjoying being single for 30 years & looking forward to continuing to grow & create new friendships.
-Now Russia being the toxic Ex that it is wants her back, and doesn’t want her meeting new people or creating any new relationships.
-A couple of weeks ago Russia started sitting in the front of Ukraine’s house & when her friends ask him what was he doing there, he said “Oh nothing, just getting a little bit of exercise in, that’s all.”
-After her friends told her that Russia was potentially getting ready to do something bad to her, he said “They’re lying, they just want you to be scared of me & that’s not what it is”
-Yesterday Russia broke into Ukraine’s house, beating her up & “taking advantage” of her while on Livestream & double dog daring any of her friends to do something about it & if they do want the smoke, Russia got that thang on him.
 
Nimbus said:
Putin is very similar to Suharto when he invaded and annexed East Timor. Both are dictators who can’t tolerate a neighbor having radically different ideology and alliance. Do not justify dictators, just don’t.
Click to expand...
He is more similar to Sukarno trying to invade Sarawak during Indonesia-Malaysia Konfrontasi (size, motive, population composition, parties in the conflict-East vs West/Communism vs Capitalism).
 
Vanuatu said:
a simplified explanation a friend posted:

The Ukraine & Russia crisis In simple terms for those that have no idea what is going on.
-Ukraine used to be in an abusive relationship with Russia, feeding him, letting him use her car & giving him whatever he asked for until she built up the confidence to call it quits back in 1991
-Since then Ukraine has been working on herself, becoming a strong independent woman with help from friends like France, America, Poland etc. offering her support, loaning her money, & helping her find her way.
-Ukraine has been enjoying being single for 30 years & looking forward to continuing to grow & create new friendships.
-Now Russia being the toxic Ex that it is wants her back, and doesn’t want her meeting new people or creating any new relationships.
-A couple of weeks ago Russia started sitting in the front of Ukraine’s house & when her friends ask him what was he doing there, he said “Oh nothing, just getting a little bit of exercise in, that’s all.”
-After her friends told her that Russia was potentially getting ready to do something bad to her, he said “They’re lying, they just want you to be scared of me & that’s not what it is”
-Yesterday Russia broke into Ukraine’s house, beating her up & “taking advantage” of her while on Livestream & double dog daring any of her friends to do something about it & if they do want the smoke, Russia got that thang on him.
Click to expand...
Yep, perfect kindergarden level explanation !
 
centurion said:
He is more similar to Sukarno trying to invade Sarawak during Indonesia-Malaysia Konfrontasi (size, motive, population composition, parties in the conflict-East vs West/Communism vs Capitalism).
Click to expand...
Yes, him too.
 
Balifrog said:
Check your history lessons...
  • date and reason USA declared war on Germany
  • position of USA before the declaration of war ( hint : collaboration with the Vichy government)

But nevertheless we respect the sacrifice of all Allied soldiers who fought to liberate Europe including the Soviets.
Click to expand...
@scouser59 ,
Please answer the 2 points I raised ?
 
centurion said:
He is more similar to Sukarno trying to invade Sarawak during Indonesia-Malaysia Konfrontasi (size, motive, population composition, parties in the conflict-East vs West/Communism vs Capitalism).
Click to expand...

Nimbus said:
Yes, him too.
Click to expand...
You should dig deeper in history and the role of the US and the CIA during this era.

CIA activities in Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


Scroll down to the 1950's and later

"Following President Eisenhower's September 25, 1957 order to the CIA to overthrow the Sukarno government,"........
 
Balifrog said:
To make it short :

Remember the Cuba missile crisis and the US reaction ? Tentative invasion of Cuba, multiple tentatives to kill Castro ...

Now if TODAY, say the Mexican government enters in a commercial brawl with the US and decides to commerce mainly with China now, China installing factories in Mexico, building a port where their Navy can dock and where they can keep some troops (c/f Djibouti) how do you think the USA would react ?

They would probably not invade Mexico, but they would do everything they can to trash it economically + massive revenge on Mexican immigrants.

It's not all black and white. Geopolitics is all about grey areas.

Countries have no allies, no friends, only self interest !

Edit : There is an hysterical, and historical paranoid fear (or should I say "hatred") by most Americans for anything that looks like communism. Even nowadays.
And because of that being factual is difficult for many.
Ennemy used to be the USSR, now it is Russia and China.... By default they are always wrong, guilty, the bad guys.
Click to expand...

If I'm not going to entertain whataboutism on past events, I'm certainly not going to entertain assumptions of events that haven't taken place.
 
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