Total Mismanagement of Health Protocols

[MamangDudul]

Yep, like the QR bollocks...
They want it in malls even if the place is deserted. Like Carrefour here in Bali
But :
No need for it in the Pura, Mosque or Church
No need for it in Jakarta to enter the train station, subway or bus station ?
It is a joke, but OK I prefer the joke than the dictatorship rules in Europe !


And as you said, there are ways....

Well said.

For all that it's worth, I have also far less problems with this joke compared to a lot of stuff that goes on in other places.
Even when it's about health, there also has to be a balance for everything. Live and let live.

 

[Nimbus]

I think they have handled it pretty well, especially since the original health minister got fired and replaced by someone competent, and Luhut took over the process. The vaccination process and the PL app are both way better than anyone would have predicted.
My main issue is the way they have downgraded the importance of education. Most kids have studied almost nothing for 2 years unless their parents have been able to help them. However malls and mosques are kept open. That is definitely a case of wrong priorities, with big consequences for the future of the country.

Edit: I have noticed from observing the extended family that the main way parents assist with education is through things relating to religion (eg tell kids to learn pages of the koran or learn some Arabic words). In terms of assisting with Maths, English, Science or something useful for their futures, there has been very little assistance given since the parents themselves don't know the material.

Malls are open because people need their money and entertainment, otherwise they’ll direct most of their frustration to the government.

No explanation is necessary about mosques.

Education schmeducation. As long as the gov’t doesn’t withhold the diploma, people don’t care.

 

[fastpitch17]

Malls are open because people need their money and entertainment, otherwise they’ll direct most of their frustration to the government.

No explanation is necessary about mosques.

Education schmeducation. As long as the gov’t doesn’t withhold the diploma, people don’t care.

Yes, businesses are open and people do need their money but isn't that the reason that if you are open you need to do everything possible to protect the customers? That part doesn't seem to be happening. Look at the current spread of Omicron, that is due to the mobility of people and little enforcement of the safety protocols. Even the stay at home if you are positive doesn't work here, people still go out and if no one is using or checking the apps, the possitive are within the masses.

They announced here that even though school is closed again, all graduates will receive their diploma, no exceptions. What i see happening is these certain period issued diplomas are going to me marked by employers as bottom of the list potential hires. Like an asterisk behind someone name. Those with those diplomas will get a rude awakening if they go on to UNI unless colleges start putting some kind of program in place for them to acclimate to the higher level of learning.

 

[Balifrog]

Look at the current spread of Omicron, that is due to the mobility of people and little enforcement of the safety protocols. Even the stay at home if you are positive doesn't work here, people still go out and

Hong Kong has since 2 years enforced VERY strict protocols, lockdowns, bar and restaurant closure, travel ban, massive quarantine.
And guess what ? It does NOT work.....

Scroll the pics at the top of this article...

Hong Kong hospitals buckle under Covid-19 wave, patients sleep outdoors in tents

Healthcare professionals have long warned HK's public hospitals were unprepared for a Covid-19 surge. Read more at straitstimes.com.

www.straitstimes.com

So now that Uncle Xi is kicking the ass of HKG Chief Executive, they plan to dig themselve in a deeper hole :

HK mulls citywide tests after Xi's strict order - Asia Times

The Hong Kong government is preparing to launch a citywide Covid testing scheme in March after being ordered by Chinese President Xi Jinping to make

asiatimes.com

PS : Need I repeat for the 100th time that vaccinated people are as likely to be positive than non vaxed, the QR bollocks is useless. Guy proudly scans his QR like he is guatanteed 100% immune.... WTF.....

But if HKG proceeds with a mass testing of the whole population (7,5 M) it will be interesting to see the results.
To note also that even if the population has a global 70% vaccination rate (2 jabs), the most at risk population, the elder people, are reluctant to get vaxed and the rate is barely over 50%.
It is THAT population that the government need to convince. Not the 15 to 40 year old !

 

[Helpful Herbert]

The reason hospitals in Hong Kong are full is because everyone who tests positive is immediately transferred to a hospital, even if they have no symptoms.

 

[gemima]

To note also that even if the population has a global 70% vaccination rate (2 jabs), the most at risk population, the elder people, are reluctant to get vaxed and the rate is barely over 50%.
It is THAT population that the government need to convince. Not the 15 to 40 year old !

This is the critical point about HK. Also the USA. Countries where the older populations (and people with health concerns no matter their age) still have high death rates with Omnicron generally have high numbers of unvaxxed vulnerable groups. It's generally mild, if you have been vaxxed or if you already survived a previous infection. The focus should be on these vulnerable people.

As we have gone through this path over the last 2 years we have seen more and more transmissible versions of COVID mutate. The idea that we could successfully mount a zero covid (or even low covid) defense against omicron is pure fantasy (that the Chinese are still caught up in - let's see how that goes for them over time).

I think overall the Indonesian authorities have been very sensible in this wave - no knee-jerk orders (apart from the quarantine hotel stuff - which I think was probably good at the beginning to delay the arrival of omicron - now that its everywhere here there is literally no point).
The PL application was a useful tool to goad people to get the vaccine IMO - and I agree with measures like that to poke people into it but completely appose vax mandates (I'm a very pro vaxx person - as can be clearly seen in my posting history). The PL does nothing to effectively prevent spread and I don't think there is any way to do that in a country like Indonesia.

 

[Balifrog]

The reason hospitals in Hong Kong are full is because everyone who tests positive is immediately transferred to a hospital, even if they have no symptoms.

Yes, I am aware of that.
"Overreaction"
But that is typical from Honkies. (I lived there 8 years).
Mainly due to the SARS several years ago. They now tend to go hysteric.
The fact that Uncle Xi, who has completely integrated HK in the China system pushes them towards the zero covid dream doesn't help.
And Carrie Lam, the C.E., knows what will happen to her if she doesn't "obey" !

 

[Nimbus]

PS : Need I repeat for the 100th time that vaccinated people are as likely to be positive than non vaxed, the QR bollocks is useless. Guy proudly scans his QR like he is guatanteed 100% immune.... WTF.....

Vaccinated people can still be positive, but they are less likely to infect others. This alone is enough reason to mandate vaccinations.

Vaccinated who get breakthrough infections less contagious

Breakthrough COVID-19 cases in vaccinated people may be less likely to spread infection because virus is shed for a shorter period of time as opposed to infections in unvaccinated people.

news.harvard.edu

 

[Balifrog]

Vaccinated people can still be positive, but they are less likely to infect others. This alone is enough reason to mandate vaccinations.

Vaccinated who get breakthrough infections less contagious

Breakthrough COVID-19 cases in vaccinated people may be less likely to spread infection because virus is shed for a shorter period of time as opposed to infections in unvaccinated people.

news.harvard.edu

"infections may be less likely to spread the virus because they shed it for a shorter period"
"MAY" being the key word. But "may" is a guess, not a scientific proof.

And also :
"the authors caution that it was conducted in predominantly young, male, and healthy participants, and is therefore not representative of the general population. Further research in other populations is needed."

Here under the record of all PCR test done at IHU Marseille (leading universitary hospital with a specialized dept in virologie).
From week 38/2020 till week 06/22.
What interest us is the part on the right side , say from week 42/2021

You will see that there about as much positives in the vaxed as in the unvaxed.
The color code is related to age range, but unfortunately I dont have the code.

There is a difference of course, but not that big.

 

[gemima]

"infections may be less likely to spread the virus because they shed it for a shorter period"
"MAY" being the key word. But "may" is a guess, not a scientific proof.

And also :
"the authors caution that it was conducted in predominantly young, male, and healthy participants, and is therefore not representative of the general population. Further research in other populations is needed."

Here under the record of all PCR test done at IHU Marseille (leading universitary hospital with a specialized dept in virologie).
From week 38/2020 till week 06/22.
What interest us is the part on the right side , say from week 42/2021

You will see that there about as much positives in the vaxed as in the unvaxed.
The color code is related to age range, but unfortunately I dont have the code.

View attachment 2420

There is a difference of course, but not that big.

Balifrog - I don't want to jump down your throat but this is not comparing equal groups - the population who are vaxxed are much larger than the pop unvaxxed so if the unvaxxed are showing up in similar numbers you can see there is a big problem in this cohort

 

[centurion]

Many of these unvaxxed in these 2 years already got infected so they become vaxxed anyway.

 

[Balifrog]

Balifrog - I don't want to jump down your throat but this is not comparing equal groups - the population who are vaxxed are much larger than the pop unvaxxed so if the unvaxxed are showing up in similar numbers you can see there is a big problem in this cohort

Agreed.
Would need to dig deeper in the numbers, but even it was something that I followed closely the first year, it bores me nowadays and I usually just ignore the whole drama.
I have through all this time continued to live my life normally, and I will continue doing so.
Anyway, it will all fade away one day or another....
My companion, who is double vaxed (done it mainly to travel up and down to Java to see the family) was asked yesterday if she want the 3rd shot.
Her answer was "feck it, I am OK like I am"
And there are plenty like her.

Lucky we don't live in France where we would be 2nd or 3rd class citizens ...

 

[Nimbus]

You’re as much of a second class citizen as people who refuse to wear a helmet on motorcycles, refuse to wear a seatbelt in a car, refuse to stop at traffic lights, or refuse to wear clothes in public.

 

[Balifrog]

You’re as much of a second class citizen as people who refuse to wear a helmet on motorcycles, refuse to wear a seatbelt in a car, refuse to stop at traffic lights, or refuse to wear clothes in public.

I am impressed by the intelectual level of that answer.....
Really....
MAGA syndrome ?

 

[fastpitch17]

You’re as much of a second class citizen as people who refuse to wear a helmet on motorcycles, refuse to wear a seatbelt in a car, refuse to stop at traffic lights, or refuse to wear clothes in public.

That clothes part. You must be referring to sunburn. Over clothed should be what people are against. Like those winter coats in the hot sun. Hoodies when it's really hot.

 

[Nimbus]

I am impressed by the intelectual level of that answer.....
Really....
MAGA syndrome ?

I am more impressed with the intellectual capacity of a guy who implies that vaccine mandate is comparable to the holocaust. Nobel prize laureate level.

 

[Nimbus]

That clothes part. You must be referring to sunburn. Over clothed should be what people are against. Like those winter coats in the hot sun. Hoodies when it's really hot.

I’m not bothered by people walking around in their birthday suit, as long as they’re hygienic. However, the law in most places are against this natural freedom.

I play computer games. In America a game can depict blood, gore, and all sorts of graphic dismemberment. Violence is generally ok. But, if a game shows dry humping it will be pulled from the shelves and categorized as pornography. Little Billy can decapitate, disembowel, and explode human characters into realistic meat chunks in the game, but he better not realize that women have nipples.

 

[fastpitch17]

I’m not bothered by people walking around in their birthday suit, as long as they’re hygienic. However, the law in most places are against this natural freedom.

I play computer games. In America a game can depict blood, gore, and all sorts of graphic dismemberment. Violence is generally ok. But, if a game shows dry humping it will be pulled from the shelves and categorized as pornography. Little Billy can decapitate, disembowel, and explode human characters into realistic meat chunks in the game, but he better not realize that women have nipples.

Women here do not have nipples. Naked person in public the police are contacted about a crazy person. Somebody crushed and splattered all over the road is a button for the phones to come out so they can post on social medias. Sonething just seems backwards about the whole thing.

 

[ChrisTex]

Women here do not have nipples. Naked person in public the police are contacted about a crazy person. Somebody crushed and splattered all over the road is a button for the phones to come out so they can post on social medias. Sonething just seems backwards about the whole thing.

Remember the terrorist attack in Jakarta in 2016? People had their phones out and were following the people in uniform around rather than seeking somewhere safe.

 

[Vulgarian]

Agreed.
Would need to dig deeper in the numbers, but even it was something that I followed closely the first year, it bores me nowadays and I usually just ignore the whole drama.

Mustn't feed the troll, mustn't feed the tr... Gah!

But you don't ignore it, do you? You keep pushing your dim-witted, early-2020 take in the face of all evidence.

Look, I get it. The last two years have been a massive buzzkill. No one's had a good time (to put it mildly) and frequently, things we thought we knew turned out not to be the case. An intellectually honest person would admit that this pandemic was beyond anyone's snap judgement and would do their best to react to the situation as it develops.

It's OK to not be immediately right - everyone makes mistakes. What annoys people (OK - what annoys me) is when you refuse to admit that your initial take was arbitrary and then go on to pretend that you don't care about something that you're clearly very invested in.

I do like your food posts.