DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[Bad_azz]

Re Ivermectin- some studies done, more need to be done.
There seems to be a tentative conclusion that it may be useful but it is far from resounding at this stage.

 

[Balifrog]

This is Hydroxychloroquine all over again.

Except that Hydroxychloroquine is NOT dangerous if taken in reasonable doses.
It is used by millions of people against malaria, among other thing.
I remember in my Navy days we had to take one pill of it daily when in certsin countries.
The brand was Nivaquine and it tasted not soo good.

 

[ChrisTex]

Indonesia is not like USA that can simply print dollars and pay people to stay home. Every lockdown decision has to be balanced against economic interests, which is very difficult. If the gov’t is too lenient, then the virus spreads too much and kill too many people. If it’s too strict, then the economy suffers too much and people get angry. I’m just happy that I’m not the one calling the shots.

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

 

[Dave70]

WHO recommends Roche, Sanofi drugs for COVID-19 to cut death risk

The World Health Organization on Tuesday recommended using arthritis drugs Actemra from Roche (ROG.S) and Kevzara from Sanofi (SASY.PA)with corticosteroids for COVID-19 patients after data from some 11,000 patients showed they cut the risk of death.

www.reuters.com

 

[Nimbus]

Except that Hydroxychloroquine is NOT dangerous if taken in reasonable doses.
It is used by millions of people against malaria, among other thing.
I remember in my Navy days we had to take one pill of it daily when in certsin countries.
The brand was Nivaquine and it tasted not soo good.

The preventive dose is 400mg a week, in order to have some effect on Covid they’re giving people 1200mg a day for 10 days.

 

[Balifrog]

The preventive dose is 400mg a week, in order to have some effect on Covid they’re giving people 1200mg a day for 10 days.

Maybe in the US, not in France.

Early treatment of COVID-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin: A retrospective analysis of 1061 cases in Marseille, France - PMC

In France, the combination hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and azithromycin (AZ) is used in the treatment of COVID-19. We retrospectively report on 1061 SARS-CoV-2 positive tested patients treated for at least three days with the following regimen: HCQ ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Note : IHU Marseille (Universitary Hospital) is know for it's "non conventional" and contreversial Director, prof RAOULT, but they were on top on the Covid crisis since the beginning.
Mass detection by PCR test and immediate treatment as outpatient for positive cases.
The number 1200 probably comes from WHO, who made a very negative report on HDX but got it completely wrong on the

 

[Nimbus]

Maybe in the US, not in France.

Early treatment of COVID-19 patients with hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin: A retrospective analysis of 1061 cases in Marseille, France - PMC

In France, the combination hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) and azithromycin (AZ) is used in the treatment of COVID-19. We retrospectively report on 1061 SARS-CoV-2 positive tested patients treated for at least three days with the following regimen: HCQ ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Note : IHU Marseille (Universitary Hospital) is know for it's "non conventional" and contreversial Director, prof RAOULT, but they were on top on the Covid crisis since the beginning.
Mass detection by PCR test and immediate treatment as outpatient for positive cases.
The number 1200 probably comes from WHO, who made a very negative report on HDX but got it completely wrong on the

That study has no control group. They gave HCQ and AZ to a whole bunch of people and simply counted how many got better, worse, and died.

The NIH has its own study showing that there’s practically no difference between HCQ and placebo. If it offers no benefit, the only thing it brings is side effects.

Hydroxychloroquine does not benefit adults hospitalized with COVID-19

The trial began after lab studies and preliminary reports suggested that hydroxychloroquine might have promise in treating SARS-CoV-2.

www.nih.gov

 

[Balifrog]

That study has no control group. They gave HCQ and AZ to a whole bunch of people and simply counted how many got better, worse, and died.

The NIH has its own study showing that there’s practically no difference between HCQ and placebo. If it offers no benefit, the only thing it brings is side effects.

Hydroxychloroquine does not benefit adults hospitalized with COVID-19

The trial began after lab studies and preliminary reports suggested that hydroxychloroquine might have promise in treating SARS-CoV-2.

www.nih.gov

A doctor's duty is to treat sick people, this is what the IHU Marseille has been doing all the way.
More importantly, treat them since the very beginning, the first symptoms, in order to avoid the situation to become worse.
That was, and still is, the idea, not to do a scientific test.
Side effects are minimal.
But ok, let's agree to disagree.

 

[Nimbus]

A doctor's duty is to treat sick people, this is what the IHU Marseille has been doing all the way.
More importantly, treat them since the very beginning, the first symptoms, in order to avoid the situation to become worse.
That was, and still is, the idea, not to do a scientific test.
Side effects are minimal.
But ok, let's agree to disagree.

We’re not talking about doctor’s obligation, we’re talking about the effectiveness of HCQ against Covid. He can help as many people as he likes, but unless there’s a comparison against a control group he can’t claim that the result is due to HCQ.

Let’s say a winning football team is wearing brand X shoes, then claims that the shoes make them winners. That claim is not credible unless they wear a different shoe brand for comparison then loses all the time.

If a ‘medicine’ doesn’t produce a better result than sugar tablets, why do you even need a doctor? At least sugar tastes better and it has no side effect.

 

[scouser59]

A doctor's duty is to treat sick people, this is what the IHU Marseille has been doing all the way.
More importantly, treat them since the very beginning, the first symptoms, in order to avoid the situation to become worse.
That was, and still is, the idea, not to do a scientific test.
Side effects are minimal.
But ok, let's agree to disagree.

I had really bad side effects with HCQ malaria protection in somalia 30 plus years ago , bad stomach headaches etc ,I stopped taking them better to avoid the "mosys" than suffer on a daily basis ,I never took it again over the years in malaria zones ,and never got malaria.

 

[Balifrog]

I had really bad side effects with HCQ malaria protection in somalia 30 plus years ago , bad stomach headaches etc ,I stopped taking them better to avoid the "mosys" than suffer on a daily basis ,I never took it again over the years in malaria zones ,and never got malaria.

For me it was in the 70's, some African ports we docked, and Djibouti where we were stationed for some time.
I remember there were some side effects, but can't have been too bad if not I would still be able to describe them. We stopped taking them as well. But as you say, the mosquitos or malaria was very low risk. And anyway at 20y old you are invincible ....

For somebody who tests positive Covid, I think it's worth going through the side effects ?

Just an aside concerning vaccines : There was a mandatory vaccin in the Army / Navy called TABDT in those days
This thing was REALLY painfull. It was a "cocktail" protecting against : "a vaccine against typhoid A and B, diphtheria and tetanus "

The fact the injections were done by young male nurses just graduated from their course, added a bit of a lottery to it. Some were OK, some should have become butcher....

For the French speaking BM :

TABDT, quand les militaires vaccinaient. – Alternatives Pyrénées

 

[Balifrog]

Non vaccinated people are now officially second class citizens, with less rights than the vaccinated ...

Unvaccinated Cruise Guests Get Second-Class Treatment at Sea

By Fran Golden (Bloomberg) Royal Caribbean’s 4,275-passenger Freedom of the Seas has restarted sailings from Miami to the Bahamas with two classes of passengers on board—those who’ve been vaccinated against Covid-19, and those...

gcaptain.com

Sorry boys and girls, this can not be right whatever the argument in favor of the vaccine or "health pass"

Now I understand the commercial aspect for the cruise lines, but still ethically it is wrong and we are drifting far away from democracy and "everybody is equal".

 

[dafluff]

Non vaccinated people are now officially second class citizens, with less rights than the vaccinated ...

Unvaccinated Cruise Guests Get Second-Class Treatment at Sea

By Fran Golden (Bloomberg) Royal Caribbean’s 4,275-passenger Freedom of the Seas has restarted sailings from Miami to the Bahamas with two classes of passengers on board—those who’ve been vaccinated against Covid-19, and those...

gcaptain.com

Sorry boys and girls, this can not be right whatever the argument in favor of the vaccine or "health pass"

Now I understand the commercial aspect for the cruise lines, but still ethically it is wrong and we are drifting far away from democracy and "everybody is equal".

I don't have a driver's license -> I'm not allowed to drive -> I'm a second-class citizen!!!!

 

[Bad_azz]

Yesterday, in the short time we were out, we counted 6 'ambulances' heading to the designated covid cemetery.
2 interesting articles re Bandung:

Warga Keluhkan Pemakaman Jenazah Covid-19 di TPU Cikadut Bandung Tak Gratis

Sejumlah warga mengeluhkan adanya pungutan uang di Tempat Pemakaman Umum (TPU) Cikadut khusus Covid-19.

jabar.inews.id

Banyak Urus Pemakaman Jenazah Pasien Covid-19, 10 Petugas TPU Cikadut Tumbang Terpapar

Jumlah petugas yang ada di TPU Cikadut sebanyak 57 orang, namun kian hari semakin berkurang karena terpapar Covid-19

regional.kompas.com

 

[harryopal1]

Non vaccinated people are now officially second class citizens, with less rights than the vaccinated ...

Unvaccinated Cruise Guests Get Second-Class Treatment at Sea

By Fran Golden (Bloomberg) Royal Caribbean’s 4,275-passenger Freedom of the Seas has restarted sailings from Miami to the Bahamas with two classes of passengers on board—those who’ve been vaccinated against Covid-19, and those...

gcaptain.com

Sorry boys and girls, this can not be right whatever the argument in favor of the vaccine or "health pass"

Now I understand the commercial aspect for the cruise lines, but still ethically it is wrong and we are drifting far away from democracy and "everybody is equal".

This is hardly something new. It used to be that travelling one carried a health card in which smallpox, yellow fever, cholera and whatever other vaccinations were entered, Without the health card you could not travel. I don't disagree with your sentiment but every organization, state, club, country or intergalactic star has it's own rules. It used to be, or at least in Australia, you could not enter a restaurant without a tie. You either accepted the rule or you were bounced. (Many restaurants had a drawer with a few spare ties as a fall back.)

 

[HappyMan]

Non vaccinated people are now officially second class citizens, with less rights than the vaccinated ...

Unvaccinated Cruise Guests Get Second-Class Treatment at Sea

By Fran Golden (Bloomberg) Royal Caribbean’s 4,275-passenger Freedom of the Seas has restarted sailings from Miami to the Bahamas with two classes of passengers on board—those who’ve been vaccinated against Covid-19, and those...

gcaptain.com

Sorry boys and girls, this can not be right whatever the argument in favor of the vaccine or "health pass"

Now I understand the commercial aspect for the cruise lines, but still ethically it is wrong and we are drifting far away from democracy and "everybody is equal".

If you were just endangering yourself, I'd have some sympathy for your argument. It is your body and you should have the right to do what you want with it. But, this is a contagious disease. Infected people (and you are more likely to be infected if you are not vaccinated) endanger the health of others. If you refuse a vaccine that you know will protect yourself and others because you just don't wanna, then I reckon you are willfully endangering others by being in their proximity.

For example, if a guy wants to sit at home and get stoned out of his mind, that's his business and I don't see why the gov needs to step in. But, if he has kids in the house being neglected because he is too stoned to parent them or needs to use government resources to treat his condition, then I think the government has a right to put a little weight behind their opinions, to do something to address the situation as a steward of public safety and public resources.

When you affect others negatively, then you lose some portion of your ability to convincingly moan about your personal freedoms.

 

[ChrisTex]

Non vaccinated people are now officially second class citizens, with less rights than the vaccinated ...

Unvaccinated Cruise Guests Get Second-Class Treatment at Sea

By Fran Golden (Bloomberg) Royal Caribbean’s 4,275-passenger Freedom of the Seas has restarted sailings from Miami to the Bahamas with two classes of passengers on board—those who’ve been vaccinated against Covid-19, and those...

gcaptain.com

Sorry boys and girls, this can not be right whatever the argument in favor of the vaccine or "health pass"

Now I understand the commercial aspect for the cruise lines, but still ethically it is wrong and we are drifting far away from democracy and "everybody is equal".

I am not sure if they are still going to do it, but the NFL had two different policies: one for those who had vaccines and one for those who didn't receive the vaccine for the upcoming season.

 

[Bad_azz]

' The lead scientist on China's Sinovac vaccine trials in Indonesia died of suspected COVID-19 on Wednesday, Indonesian media said.'

This article was published in thejakartapost.com with the title "Indonesia's lead Sinovac vaccine scientist dies of suspected COVID-19". Click to read: https://www.thejakartapost.com/news...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1625727441.

 

[ChrisTex]

Oh lovely. Does that mean those of us who had Sinovac will need to get another brand? If so, then it is going to be a nightmare for the vaccination program.

 

[gemima]

Oh lovely. Does that mean those of us who had Sinovac will need to get another brand? If so, then it is going to be a nightmare for the vaccination program.

It seems likely that a booster might be needed, could be a new dose of sinovac or maybe one of the other vaxx if they can get their hands on enough.
I know sinovac seems to have bad outcomes here right now but vaccines are only as good as the people you use them in. We need to be somewhat healthy for the body to be able to react to the vaccine and make antibodies. One of my very healthy Indo friends who is fully dosed with sinovac (and never had covid) has really high antibody levels so it looks like the vaccine has worked well in her case.
If you are worried you can get an antibody blood test done to check your levels.