Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[Asun]

What's up with the fascination and adulation for tricked out minivans? I thought gearheads are usually excited about slick european sport cars or raw power of american muscle cars. IMHO, those luxury vans are ugly as sin. SUV's looks slightly better but gimme a sub-compact any day, or a 2 seater if I happen to be flush at the moment.

 

[El_Goretto]

With some minor cosmetic surgery you could make an Esquire version...and you thought the Alphard grill was somewhat overwhelming?

Kill it with fire!

What's up with the fascination and adulation for tricked out minivans? I thought gearheads are usually excited about slick european sport cars or raw power of american muscle cars. IMHO, those luxury vans are ugly as sin. SUV's looks slightly better but gimme a sub-compact any day, or a 2 seater if I happen to be flush at the moment.

I wouldn't go as far as calling myself gear head (haven't earned the honor yet), but yes I absolutely agree that sports cars, even sporty European sedans are far more attractive.

In the real of the possible, my favorite affordable sedan available in Indonesia is the Mazda 6. I used to have a Mazda 3 MPS (called Mazdaspeed in the US) back in Australia, and I loved it so much. If only they'd released an MPS (aka turbo) version of the new Mazda 6. Unfortunately, even though my wife loves that car too, we have a family so we need something bigger.

We currently drive a fortuner. Works well but it's so boring.

We're looking at mini vans simply from a practical point of view. Since they all look ugly af, practicality becomes the next decision making factor.

I'd get a new Honda Odyssey over an Alphard but they are still too expensive.

In terms of SUV, I'd get a new Mazda CX9 in a heartbeat if they were 1. Not ridiculously expensive and 2. available in Indonesia.

 

[jstar]

@Asun : Eh, did you read the posts and comments or only look at the pictures?

Talking about slick European sports cars, if you want some you have to visit Pluit: http://prestigecars.co.id/

But with a name as Prestige Image Motorcars, it makes you wonder what the priorities of the clientèle are?

Anyway, they are also importing Tesla. But I have never seen one on the road. Perhaps I would miss it anyway, coming from a country where they are quite common and used as taxi.

Btw, certain brands (esp. Lamborghini) organize track days in Sentul where potential customers and selebrities and journalists can test drive.

 

[jstar]

If you live in areas with amazingly bad road conditions and constant macet and where you prefer to be driven and where gengsi rules, the driving characteristics of a car become less and less important.

What you want is a floating boat (i.e. American suspension), luxurious seating, a very good airconditioning system and interior space. No wonder these Alphards etc. are so popular.

In Europe and the US my car of choice is very different from here.

 

[vocalneal]

where gengsi rules,

Isn't one of the benefits of being a foreigner in a country is that one is free from all the weird soial mores?

Being European gives one instant, what you call, gengsi. So choice of car doesn't really matter as long as you don't mind walking to the supermarket entrance. Inside the supermarket a nice smile will get one loads of gengsi.

My personality, limited as it is, tempts me to go anti-gengsi just because

And anyway with all the blacked out windows no one can see who the gengsi is supposed to describe. Usually they are social bullies and louts?.

 

[vocalneal]

What's up with the fascination and adulation for tricked out minivans? I thought gearheads are usually excited about slick european sport cars....

Most people who have large people movers have more than one car. The van is used to be driven to work/golf or take the maid shopping or do the school run.

 

[jstar]

So let's say I'm a gear head and have approx. €50K to spend on a car. I want it to be somewhat spacious but no SUV or break, with enough space for 4 adults or at least 2+2, it needs to be able to take all types of roads that I would encounter daily, be sporty and give me a superior driving experience.

In Europe, without any doubt, I'd go for one of these four:

Why not the 3-series you ask? Well, it has more or less swapped places with the C-class. That has become more sporty with a harder suspension, while the Beemer has become more of a cruiser.

Now if I had €25K more to spend, so with a budget of €70-75K, I would go with the top end model, the Quadrifoglio, the M, the (R)S, the AMG.

If I would be concerned about the environment or my wallet (taxes) I would choose the hybrid / plugin / natural gas version.

If I would drive more than 100K per year, I would go for the lpg or diesel version.

If I want to have more fun, I would go for the convertible (when available).

If I want some more space I go for the GT / hatchback or break / station car version. Or the bigger model (4 series, A7, E class) in a smaller engine which would keep the price the same.

If I live in an area with extreme weather conditions I would want the AWD or 4WD version.

Now in urban but even rural Indonesia those cars are not an option. Ór they would be grey import with crazy prices, ór completely unsuitable for the roads and circumstances over here.

So over here.......

....to be continued.​

 

[vocalneal]

So let's say I'm a gear head and have approx. €50K to spend on a car. I want it to be somewhat spacious but no SUV or break, with enough space for 4 adults or at least 2+2, it needs to be able to take all types of roads that I would encounter daily, be sporty and give me a superior driving experience.

ahem!

and one ot these for the weekend?

 

[Davita]

Seeing as you guys are displaying your wheels please allow me to show my little Italian muscle-car circa 1970.....hahaha...I had two of them and used one as spares.

 

[jstar]

So over here.......

.....many of these cars are no valid option. Unless you have money to burn but then I would look into a higher class.

A Mercedes C-class, Lexus IS/GS and also the Jaguar XE (which is a valid competitor in Europe) are completely overpriced; we're talking between 1,2 and 1,7 billion for these cars in a better trim.

The Alfa is not available, nor are the Sportback Audi or GT BMW versions (which are in fact fancy words for hatchbacks). For decent prices that is.

I would never ever cough up 600+ million for a Camry or Accord, even if the versions are rather luxureous. But it must be said, they are quite well adapted to the road conditions over here, The same applies for a Mazda 6, a $30K car in the US, even if it is a beauty. Its problem is that the resale value plummets (relatively speaking) and that it cosmetically changes somewhat every 6 to 12 months. But it is a good option to consider as second hand.

The shortlist in this price class for a 'drivers car' which are relatively well adapted to the local circumstances is:

BMW 328i.

Great engine, direct steering but not too bouncy. But outdated dashboard etc. but with a great seating position.

But: They are working very hard to introduce a completely new model (since Audi, Mercedes and Alfa have newer and better options in this segment). So unless you don't care about resale value and don't give a rat's @ss about the generation of your car, I would let this one slide. You could wait for the new model but I think they will price it much higher, I expect an extra 100 million which would move it more in the Benz territory.

Audi A5 Coupé.

Rather hard suspension but impeccible finishing. Currently Audi is even better than Mercedes in its quality. For a relatively interesting price, comparable to the BMW 3 series. A nice advantage is that Audi's look alike in every new generation, so it will take quite some time before it will start to look outdated.

Subaru Impreza (WRX).

Many people still think this is a Korean brand. Superior 4WD, not the most beautiful design but technically a beauty. If you're into the Fast and the Furious - Tokyo Drift, this is a must have. But serious; a completely under-estimated brand.

 

[vocalneal]

. But serious; a completely under-estimated brand.

If one needs 4WD anywhere in the world Subaru is never underestimated?

 

[jstar]

Not sure, people go with what they know. Or what their brother in law tells them. If you look at countries like Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, etc. you see that the Forester and Outback are doing quite well. But they can't really compete with the AWD versions from Audi, VW, Volvo, BMW, etc. (Even if their 4WD/AWD systems are in fact inferior.)

I sat as passenger in a VW Transporter Syncro once. It was winter with a lot of snow on the highways and the guy was driving 130 kmph to make it to the airport in Stockholm on time. (And I think it gave him a kick as well.) I was convinced we would die but hey, the system worked. I didn't even know the Transporter was available with Syncro, my colleague had a Passat.

 

[vocalneal]

But they can't really compete with the AWD versions from Audi, VW, Volvo, BMW, etc. (Even if their 4WD/AWD systems are in fact inferior.)

You mean in the showroom not the forest or ice? Most 4wd owners never go on anything worse than wet leaves.

Oh and then there is LandRover?

 

[jstar]

Depends where. The countries I mentioned and Northern Europe in general, and also huge parts of Asia and Northern America, do benefit from AWD and 4WD, esp. during the winters. Normally AWD means 80-100% of traction on the front or back wheels and 0-20% on the other end. When needed, it can up to 50/50%. So it does help with traction under power, but so do good tires.

Not talking about aquaplanning, but with rain after a longer dry period, the roads here can be very slippery (rubber from the tires, oil). And even with the gravel and loose surfaces here, it does help. Of course it adds no value in taking corners or when hitting the brakes.

Btw, Landrover is in the class of Jaguar here; amazingly expensive compared with Europe. Most SUV's in the US and Europe sold, are 2WD nowadays. That was very different 5 years ago. Cost saving and weight advantages of course. In Indonesia there are practically no 4WD & AWD vehicles besides the pickup trucks and top of the line SUVs. And often it is difficult to find a combination with an automatic gearbox then.

 

[Asun]

Seeing as you guys are displaying your wheels please allow me to show my little Italian muscle-car circa 1970.....hahaha...I had two of them and used one as spares.

I can see the direct descendants of Davita's ride:

 

[john madden]

If you're into the Fast and the Furious - Tokyo Drift, this is a must have. But serious; a completely under-estimated brand.

Not under-estimated in Australia where the (stolen) WRX was the get-away car of choice for ATM smash-and-grabs for quite a while!

 

[vocalneal]

I can see the direct descendants of Davita's ride:

Ha, Ha, My mother has one of those. Same colour. She loves it. Easy to park.

 

[vocalneal]

Normally AWD means 80-100% of traction on the front or back wheels and 0-20% on the other end.

Don't know the exact difference apart from a viscous coupling but Subaru has symmetrical 4WD where all the wheels share the load. I would say for the actual use of 4WD Subaru system is better but for the average punter who doesn't care then buy anyone.

Adjunct: very popular in Europe but mostly only available there and not the same as Subaru but way cheaper. FIAT Punto 4x4

 

[vocalneal]

New? to me Toyota Sienta. Looks like a foil to the Honda Freed. So I had a pog around the internet.

Then I thought if one is going to buy a cheap crappy van then I'll stick with my first cheap crappy van choice. Wagon R. Marginally better than a motorbike but only just...

 

[vocalneal]

Car of the year 2017 as voted for by the readers of Woman's Own is....

A blue one