Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[jstar]

@nosox: In fact the Mazda CX-3 is probably the best car in this segment. But expensive too, even with its good looks. (>388 juta)

The HR-V is popular and will have a high second hand value. It is based on the Jazz.

The Outlander Sport (!!) or ASX is renewed and a good car but not cheap either (355 juta). And I would be somewhat concerned about (the future of) this model with Nissan/Renault in control now. They offer quite some cars in the same segment.

 

[HeikkiL]

@nosox
The Outlander Sport (!!) or ASX is renewed and a good car but not cheap either (355 juta). And I would be somewhat concerned about (the future of) this model with Nissan/Renault in control now. They offer quite some cars in the same segment.

As the replacement of OS/ASX is definitely on its way, you might be able to twist a good deal. Mrs HeikkiL managed to bargain 20% off from the price of a new top-of-the-range PX model (leathers, glass top, parking sensors + camera etc.) that was last year's model and "wrong color" (nice metallic red, but as we know, in Indonesia should be black or white...). But then again she is notorious when it comes to bargaining.

And it is a good car. A bit old-fashioned 2-liter engine (maybe thirstier than more modern power plants, but then again no breaking turbos etc. - has also good ol' timing chain instead of a belt) mated with a nice CVT transmission (and PX has also steering wheel paddles for gear changes; CVT doesn't have traditional gears as manual or traditional auto box, but they have 'programmed' gears in case driver wants to use shifters - in normal mode it is like a scooter; no gear changes but a variator transmission).

ASX / RVR / Outlander Sport was first released 2010, so it is a bit old model, but then again the biggest faults and issues have already been ironed out, so is a safe buy.

Not any 'Sport', as name falsely suggests, but a decent car with a proper trunk. Doesn't make your neighbors jealous, but gets the job done.

 

[jstar]

ASX / RVR / Outlander Sport was first released 2010, so it is a bit old model, but then again the biggest faults and issues have already been ironed out, so is a safe buy.

There were two French cars based on this model: the Citroën C4 Aircross and Peugeot 4008. Both started their lives in 2012 and were discontinued one year ago.

Technical issues are rare and the car has a good reputation. In a hot climate a bigger sized engine can prove to be more sturdy and reliable than a small turbo block. But fuel consumption will not be great and a CVT is not a great companion for a larger engine. (There have been recalls on the CVT btw. But in fact the Mitsubishi Invecs system offers very interesting possibilities to switch between driving semi manual even with paddles or semi automatic.)

So if you plan to own and drive it for many years to come, no problem. Only if you think you will sell it in two years or so, you might want to look at (newer) models with a higher potential resale value in RI. If you want to go for a pure people mover, I’d go for a MPV like the new Mitsubishi Xpander instead.

 

[jstar]

It often seems all these MPVs and SUVs are basically all the same and have just a different outlook.

But that’s not completely true; let’s compare two popular cars in INDONESIA; the Toyota Avanza and Mitsubishi Xpander.

Very important in this category of people mover, is the internal space as well as the level of comfort for people sitting in the back.

And there both brands have taken a different approach, namely in suspension. In the front they use an identical system, but at the back of the cars it’s very different. The Toyota has a so-called Multi-Link and the Mitsubishi a Torsion Beam.

Mitsubishi’s solution is cheaper and takes less space from the interior. But the system used by Toyota generates less noise, vibration and a softer ride. Obviously all try to work on minimizing the disadvantages of the implemented system.

This is one example why it makes sense to test drive yourself; also in the back of the car if that’s where you or your family will spend the most time.

 

[HeikkiL]

And there both brands have taken a different approach, namely in suspension. In the front they use an identical system, but at the back of the cars it’s very different. The Toyota has a so-called Multi-Link and the Mitsubishi a Torsion Beam.

Mitsubishi’s solution is cheaper and takes less space from the interior. But the system used by Toyota generates less noise, vibration and a softer ride. Obviously all try to work on minimizing the disadvantages of the implemented system.

And there is even bigger difference, but that leaves Toyota / Daihatsu as a runner-up: Avanza and it's twin-sister Daihatsu Xenia are rear-wheel-drives, while Xpander is a front-wheel-drive.

Haven't driven Xpander, but Avanza - maybe because it IS softer-sprung - is a real handful in highway with higher speeds, some could say even dangerous. Of course in Jakarta macet that doesn't make that big a difference.

 

[jstar]

Just like the ‘original parts’ story I mentioned before, there is an Indonesian urban myth that RWD (rear wheel drive) is better than FWD (front wheel drive). It would be better on difficult terrain and steep roads. So as long as this is the case, it will have a (minor) effect on resale value.

Obviously normally there is more internal space if the front wheels are also the driven wheels. (So they get the delivery of power.) There is no need for a central tunnel.

Now rear wheel drive is somewhat less stable and riskier with rain. But it is a very sturdy solution.

If you don’t live in rural areas with unpaved or extremely steep roads, I would not let this technical aspect affect your choice. As you can see with the sales of Mobilio and Ertiga, the average Indonesian consumer also does not deem it very important anymore.

 

[jstar]

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Nissan, eh Datsun has introduced the Cross.

Of course they play the same game as so many before them, as Honda (BR-V) or Volkswagen (Golf and Polo Cross); take an existing model -as a Go+- and increase the ground clearance (200 mm) while adding some plastic elements to give it more of an off-roader look. There are definitely no other measures taken, no 4WD or so.

It does look somewhat better than a Go+ though, and it does have more standard luxury and safety features. Of course it has three rows. With approx. 170 juta rupiah they can keep the price under €10.000.

The engine is a 3 cylinder, following the downsizing trend, using a CVT box as transmission.

 

[jstar]

Talking about Cross, Suzuki finally introduced the revamped version of the SX4 S-Cross. In many countries this car is simply called the S-Cross. Previous models were shared developments with Fiat.

Also here no (more) four wheel drive or so. Jumping on the bandwagon of crossovers with a higher seat position yes.

 

[jstar]

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This car will also be presented on the Expo.

According to the international press a fascinating vehicle, according to Toyota, "a crossover that flows through life", according to me -for what it's worth- a nice attempt to compete with the Nissan Juke and Honda HR-V.

The Toyota RAV4 is a rather good SUV but more in the segment of the X-Trail and CR-V. Toyota does not really offer a playful smaller SUV of a good built quality. Yet.

So here it is, the CH-R. Ah no, C-HR. (Who comes up with these names?)

The C-HR is here.

And it is priced at a rather astonishing 488 juta. And that’s the starting price.

That’s the problem with import in RI. You can get this car for €26K in Europe.

 

[Euc-]

The C-HR is here.

And it is priced at a rather astonishing 488 juta. And that’s the starting price.

That’s the problem with import in RI. You can get this car for €26K in Europe.

What is the problem exactly though? That's a 3k euro difference?

 

[jstar]

Those cars with their Indonesian prices can not compete with locally produced cars. So the car is set up for failure. If you look at others in this price class, e.g. the new Innova or Fortuner, you will see you get much more bang for the buck. Unless you’re really incited by its design and driving characteristics.

It is a bit like the Toyota RAV4, Suzuki Jimny and esp. the Toyota FJ Cruiser at the time; you’re being punished by huge import charges and taxes. For example, the FJ: $40K in the US vs a staggering 1.9 billion IDR in Indonesia!

And if you see those cars are not expensive in other or our home countries (cf. Accord and Camry), the average expat is also not very willing to spend the extra dough.

It’s a bit similar to why Volkswagen / Peugeot / Renault are not doing well in Indonesia; non premium European cars are very expensive and don’t offer enough vs their Asian competitors.

 

[jstar]

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Nissan, eh Datsun has introduced the Cross.

It does look somewhat better than a Go+ though, and it does have more standard luxury and safety features. Of course it has three rows. With approx. 170 juta rupiah they can keep the price under €10.000.

The engine is a 3 cylinder, following the downsizing trend, using a CVT box as transmission.

Speak of the devil; the Go and Go+ will get facelifts.

It goes somewhat further than the obligatory new front and back lights.

The important thing is that there will be many and major changes in the interior and even some improved safety.

 

[jstar]

Now this is something that has an impact on every car manufacturer. In all parts of the world.

As of September last year, the old lab test for cars which is called NEDC (New European Driving Cycle), is gradually replaced by the new a new test, called WLTP (Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure). Obviously Dieselgate and other non-kosher behavior have been a big push for this.

The old lab test was designed in the eighties and became outdated due to several evolutions in technology and driving conditions. So the European Union has prepared a new test, which should show much more realistic data on fuel consumption, CO2, electric range, etc.

Currently car manufacturers are reviewing their current portfolio and making changes if their cars don't meet certain criteria (anymore).

In reality this means for instance that in most parts of Europe, there is no more BMW 7-Series on gasoline (bensin). Only the hybrid and diesel versions will still exist. The current M3 will disappear. A fast new Opel Insignia version (= Buick Regal / Holden Commodore) will also be scrapped. The new Volvo S60 will not have a Diesel engine anymore. Porsche will only sell certain models from existing stock till March 2019. And there are quite many examples where the manufacturers are revising their model range and production planning, it is still unclear whether the cars will return with different engines.

All this could mean quite a boost for hybrid and electric vehicles. Now that is something that wouldn't be bad for Indonesia, but I don't see measures (yet) that would promote these technologies.

 

[jstar]

Some news on facelifts and new models in Indonesia:

Honda HR-V
Facelift expected August.

Honda WR-V
Expected July.

Nissan Kicks
July introduction.

Renault Kwid
Introduction this month.

If you look at these cars from the same angle in the same color setting (garbage bin grey), they all do look rather similar don't they? You see nobody wants to miss the (small-medium) SUV train...
.

 

[vocalneal]

All this could mean quite a boost for hybrid and electric vehicles. Now that is something that wouldn't be bad for Indonesia, but I don't see measures (yet) that would promote these technologies.

Most households don't have sufficient electricity to boil a kettle/use microwave and AC at the same time . How can Indonesia have electric cars?

For my purposes a small electric say Nissan Leaf would be perfect 180mile range round trip. But non are available.

 

[R Cameron]

Most households don't have sufficient electricity to boil a kettle/use microwave and AC at the same time . How can Indonesia have electric cars?

Most households also can't afford a car. Those that can afford a car can afford to upgrade their home power supply or even install a second meter dedicated to the vehicle.

I remember reading about that when there was a PLN promo (in the past year) to have electrical meters raised to 4400wh for free, and it seemed to be because Java has a surplus of electricity so they are trying to get people to use more.

I'm also intrigued by electric motorcycles, this looks fun:

 

[jstar]

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Remember the testing in the DKI with the electric Bajaj from Sweden?

As so often, buried and never heard from it again...

I'm convinced that plug-in hybrids could be a big success here. Have a dedicated solar panel on the roof of the garage, transformer (à la Tesla) et voilà.

 

[jstar]

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To please Neal and our friend who returned to Canada, some Suzuki 4x4 news:

Spyshots of the new Jimny. With the aerodynamics of an apartment building but that's okay. Many style elements of the predecessor Samurai.

 

[HeikkiL]

I'm also intrigued by electric motorcycles, this looks fun:

A (relatively) fast bike that is silent. In Jakarta? Guess I'll pass that one.

 

[R Cameron]

A (relatively) fast bike that is silent. In Jakarta? Guess I'll pass that one.

I wasn't thinking about Jakarta, but yes, I was also thinking about how I would add a whistle or artificial engine sound