Will The FPI Leader Be Charged?

The FPI was founded on 17 August 1998 by Habib Muhammad Rizieq Syihab.
There was no such organisation before and it could be dismantled. Finding who are the financial backers would be the critical path to make that happen...and not recur under a different umbrella.
 
I can only hope that you and Dan are right; this could be the beginning of his end. But as you indicated regardless the movement will likely continue with a new person same/similar philosophy and goals.
 
nosox said:
I'm curious why Ahok is always described as an Indonesian of Chinese descent and this guy is not described as an Indonesian of Arabic descent
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I think we all know the answer to that. How come they refer to the FPI as a Mass Organization all the time instead of a Radical Organization?
 
nosox said:
I'm curious why Ahok is always described as an Indonesian of Chinese descent and this guy is not described as an Indonesian of Arabic descent
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That's a good observation.

Muslims in general enjoy fabricating connections to Arab tribes and especially the houses of Muhammad and the companions. In almost all cases it's untrue, but you'll find tons of people with Sayyid/Syed, Sayyida, Mirza, Sharif and Sharifah in their names. It lends some kind of perceived credibility and exclusivity.

I dunno how much endogamy occurs within the Chinese Indonesian community. I will throw it out there that it's plausible that they are seen as more so foreign because they didn't intermarry with the indigenous population as much? But evidence in this very forum speaks to the contrary so I don't think that's it. There may be a perception of that, though.
 
Dan said:
I dunno how much endogamy occurs within the Chinese Indonesian community. I will throw it out there that it's plausible that they are seen as more so foreign because they didn't intermarry with the indigenous population as much? But evidence in this very forum speaks to the contrary so I don't think that's it. There may be a perception of that, though.
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The ones that intermarry often lose their Chinese identity, depending on how many generations they have been in Indonesia. The more "visible" Chinese-Indonesian minorities are relatively recent addition to the country. They have more Chinese physical features, such as fair skin and slanted eyes. Often the grandparents or great-grandparents were still born in China. Often they still speak Chinese (Hokkien usually) at home. They also maintain more visible Chinese traditions. Ahok certainly belongs in this category.

But the most obvious desegregating factor is whether or not they adopt Islam. If they do, then they will almost always be viewed as "native" Indonesian, certainly by 1 or 2 generations. The designation "Chinese Indonesian" is really more like "Chinese-Non-Muslim Indonesian".
 
dafluff said:
But the most obvious desegregating factor is whether or not they adopt Islam. If they do, then they will almost always be viewed as "native" Indonesian, certainly by 1 or 2 generations. The designation "Chinese Indonesian" is really more like "Chinese-Non-Muslim Indonesian".
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......and probably why Ahok gets so much flack and the Mayor of Malang, Mochamad Anton, also Chinese but Muslim......doesn't.

Chinese have been in Indonesia since around the 1200's and Islam didn't take a major foothold till the 1300's....when Indonesia was mainly Animist, Hindu, Buddhist. The Garuda eagle on Indonesian emblems was originally a Hindu symbol.
 
I have not studied this but in some discussion with others it tends to have morphed into not Muslim, as well. In this I am using the word Chinese but I am referring to Indonesians. The prior scapegoating of Chinese was perhaps more economical. The Chinese were more the tycoons and seen as rich controlling most businesses. Somehow they were scapegoated for the economic crisis. I know there were some "forces" behind this, but I don't think anyone knows who for sure, who these were. Most Chinese were seen as economically different, set apart. Of course it was non-Chinese in government making it possible for the Chinese to advance, along with their industriousness, in business and government officials enriching themselves as well. Also, a part can be the tendency to not intermarry. So again viewed as separate. There seemed to be a lot of jealousy/envy. Perhaps the not Muslim thing has gotten worse, radicalism is growing. And perhaps how honest, anti-corruption, someone is will also reflect how well they get along in the system?
I believe that Ahok has also made a lot of Chinese proud of him and even more patriotic. Of course in this there are exceptions and people who do not want cleaner government, including some Chinese. But the non Muslim thing seems to be growing in society and I find this also sad. I am certainly open to any thoughts or corrections, on these matters.
 
Indonesian of Chinese descent is more non Muslim of any descent. The Chinese part is just tossed in their to strengthen the argument and include those that may not care what the religion is but the combination is more convincing. The people that make the biggest noise are the ones that promote that everyone should be Muslim. They know they can't just come out and say they are anti Christian so they say Chinese or whatever non Indonesian that may be out there.
 
My wife's Grandmother was Chinese, poor Chinese from a Kampung, not all Chinese are rich, it is also not very often Chinese women marry Indonesian men, more often the other way, my wife is quite often asked if she is Chinese, the answer is a very firm, No.
The company I worked for was Chinese owned, they treated me very well, but unfortunately the Indonesian staff not so well, I would intervene now and again, when I retired many Indonesians asked me to stay on saying, Who is going to look after us now, so I can understand the intense dislike some Indonesians have for Chinese
 
I was reading something quoted by a ABC Australia news person. They reported part of a speech given by one of the radicals around one of the Ahok demonstrations. I could not believe the hate filled things he was saying about Ahok's ethnicity and religion. I was thinking of posting it in another thread I started but thought it was too inflammatory and hateful. It is hard to believe the level of hatred some of these radicals spew.
 
It appears Sukarno daughter is unhappy about the critism of Pancasila by the FPI and has complained to the police, I think that should get some action
 
Daniel50 said:
I was reading something quoted by a ABC Australia news person. They reported part of a speech given by one of the radicals around one of the Ahok demonstrations. I could not believe the hate filled things he was saying about Ahok's ethnicity and religion. I was thinking of posting it in another thread I started but thought it was too inflammatory and hateful. It is hard to believe the level of hatred some of these radicals spew.
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Probably Saudi trained Daniel, I would think most if not all problems with Islam come from Saudi Arabia,
 
There have been other groups historically that have demonized others and if they came to power it has not been a happy ending for the ones being demonized.
 
Anglian said:
It appears Sukarno daughter is unhappy about the critism of Pancasila by the FPI and has complained to the police, I think that should get some action
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Which daughters Anglian...to my recollection he had 7 wives and 9 children and at least three daughters are still alive....hehehe....what a naughty boy he must have been! I'm surprised he had spare time to run the country.

edit: to find for myself I searched and came up with these pics of Dewi his Japanese wife.....which confirms he was naughty and lucky.....
http://search.aol.com/aol/image?s_it=sb-top&v_t=DNSERROR&q=sukarnos+daughters

edit: 4 daughters still alive.
 
Last edited:
Davita said:
Which daughters Anglian...to my recollection he had 7 wives and 9 children and st least three daughters are still alive....hehehe....what a naughty boy he must have been! I'm surprised he had spare time to run the country.
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Ramawati, not sure of the spelling Dave, but just caught it on the box, I think he put it about a bit
 
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