Long overstay, wanting to exit. Best course of action?

[Shadrach]

Rp60 million, as it was increased a few years ago to Rp1 million per day, with a maximum limit of Rp60 million payable at the airport before departure.

More than 60 days might be considered as a crime and could lead to detention. But to become a crime the case will need to be decided by the court.

Well this makes me wonder. If the Maximum is RP. 60.000.000 then like this man just overstayed five years. What if someone stays ten years? Is the penalty still the same?If this is the case, wouldn't lots of people just start overstaying for as long as they want, and just pay the fine and leave? It would save a lot of immigration visits and $.

 

[pantaiema]

Well this makes me wonder. If the Maximum is RP. 60.000.000 then like this man just overstayed five years. What if someone stays ten years? Is the penalty still the same?If this is the case, wouldn't lots of people just start overstaying for as long as they want, and just pay the fine and leave? It would save a lot of immigration visits and $.

The Maximum fine is RP. 60.000.000 payable at the airport before departure. More than 60 days is a criminal offence and punishable. For overstaying it is up to five years while other immigration offence might lead up to a longer prison sentence. But the case will need to be decided in the court.

Unless they have a criminal record, or become a thread to public, country I have not heard any case where people get a jail term of that long. Keep in mind it costs them money to do that unnecessary. But at the same time they will need a deterrence.

In certain European countries, For individuals who have overstayed their visas for years and want to voluntary return home, they may even get free money. This is in addition to a free flight ticket to return home.

 

[marcus]

Looks like your case
Article 71
Every Foreigner who is present in the Indonesian Territory shall be obliged to:
a. Provides all information required concerning personal identity and/or his/her families identity and report every change of civil status,citizenship, ...

I think this Article is only applicable to resident foreigners (with e-ITAS/KITAS/KITAP) .

Article 116
Every Foreigner who ...

This Article requires a Court process , and in more than 25 years in Indonesia I never heard of any foreigner being prosecuted by this crime , did you ?

 

[marcus]

... More than 60 days might be considered as a crime ... More than 60 days is a criminal offence and punishable.

It is clearly not a crime and the punishment is only deportation and "blacklisting", as decided by Immigration , not by a judge in Justice Court (see the related part of the Law below) .
Articles about crimes (in the Immigration Law below) starts from Article 113 .


----------------------------------------

Law no.6 Year 2011 (Indonesian Immigration Law)
Article 78
....
(3) Foreigners with expired Stay Permit still in Indonesia for more than 60 days after the limit date will be subjected to Administrative Immigration measures of Deportation and Deterrence.

 

[André]

Rp60 million, as it was increased a few years ago to Rp1 million per day, with a maximum limit of Rp60 million payable at the airport before departure.

More than 60 days might be considered as a crime and could lead to detention or even a jail term. Keep in mind immigration detention centre is not a jail. To become a crime the case will need to be decided by the court.

Indonesia Visa Update: A Significant Increase of Visa Overstay Fine

Overstaying visa, regardless of where you are, means trouble. From May 2019, there is a sharp increase of Indonesia visa overstay fine. Find out more.

www.cekindo.com

This needs to be clarified. For overstay more than 60 days, like mine, you will not be fined the maximum of 60 million rupiah. You will not get both penalties, this money penalty, AND detention, deportation process and subsequently a ban, on top of that.
You will get the last 3, without the money penalty, unless you have violated other laws as well.

I have checked this all around, and like I explain, this is the immigration practice in Indonesia, has been for a long, long time, and this is confirmed by embassies around too. They indeed know what the process is in these cases.

You have misunderstood your own link (from 2019). It does not state what you claim, a double penalty.

I've had 5 years to do proper research about this, but I was not able to find out enough about the "ticket in hand" process. That was my initial concern.

 

[pantaiema]

This needs to be clarified. For overstay more than 60 days, like mine, you will not be fined the maximum of 60 million rupiah. You will not get both penalties, this money penalty, AND detention, deportation process and subsequently a ban, on top of that.

I agree that the statement is not clearly defined, and there is still some ambiguity that needs clarification. However, the print I shared earlier comes from a reputable agent. Also, there is no explicit mention that the maximum penalty will not be Rp60 million. It only states a 60-day period with a daily penalty of Rp1 million, making Rp60 million an interpretation. That said, I strongly believe they would gladly accept Rp60 million and allow people to depart for up to 60 days overstay.

The classification of a crime depends on interpretation. Generally, a crime is understood as an act or omission that constitutes an offense and is punishable by law. For instance, in other countries failing to pay a TV license is considered a criminal offence. You could face prosecution, fines, and, in some cases, imprisonment if you refuse to pay the fine. Additionally, it would go on your criminal record, potentially making it harder to obtain a mortgage, credit, or loans from lenders.

 

[André]

I agree that the statement is not clearly defined, and there is still some ambiguity that needs clarification. However, the print I shared earlier comes from a reputable agent. Also, there is no explicit mention that the maximum penalty will not be Rp60 million. It only states a 60-day period with a daily penalty of Rp1 million, making Rp60 million an interpretation. That said, I strongly believe they would gladly accept Rp60 million and allow people to depart for up to 60 days overstay.

Remember, this link was written just after they increased the penalty from 300k to 1 mill, in 2019, and the reason this is not specified, is because this was a new rule, and had no practice regarding longer overstayers yet.

Now we know better what the actual practice is, as linked a couple of places during this thread.

But thank you for your input

 

[Hawk256]

I would much rather show up with the capability to pay the 60 million instead of just 25 million because at that point being wrong means you get to spend your time in detention instead of lounging around the house. Your call but I know which one I would prepare for.

 

[André]

I would much rather show up with the capability to pay the 60 million instead of just 25 million because at that point being wrong means you get to spend your time in detention instead of lounging around the house. Your call but I know which one I would prepare for.

Even if I brought 500 mill with me, it wouldn't change anything. By surrendering, I will be detained until the deportation process and papers is done. My passport will get a blue stamp, and I will be banned, probably for life, with my length of overstay.

When I'm cleared, I will need to purchase my own ticket, and that will be the financial part for me.

But in the end, I will be your guinea pig, guys, I will report back in the end of March.

 

[marcus]

... Now we know better what the actual practice is, as linked a couple of places during this thread...

By reading the Indonesian Immigration Law and a few posts from foreigners who were in similar situation (in my 17 years as Indonesian Forums' member) , I agree with you that the subject has been relatively simple : deportation & blacklisting .

 

[André]

By reading the Indonesian Immigration Law and a few posts from foreigners who were in similar situation , I agree with you that the subject is/has been relatively simple : deportation & blacklisting .

Yes, thank you for that. I will be mentally prepared for everything, and hope for the best. I hope being polite, showing respect and remorse will go a long way

 

[Shadrach]

After hearing so many comments about this subject. It sounds to me like no one really knows whats going to happen. Will it be just penalty with fine, deportation, then Blacklist, or much more. No one answered my question that if someone stay for say ten, twenty, thirty years. Is it the same punishment?
If thats the case, then why don't more people just the hell with it, I'm going to stay illegally as long as I want, and they wont do much to me!
Something tells me that the Government would be pissed off, and give the person some serious jail time. So someone clarify this, and tell us what would happen if a person did overstay for ten, twenty, thirty years?

Is it just a fine, deportation, and blacklist, or much more serious punishment?

 

[André]

After hearing so many comments about this subject. It sounds to me like no one really knows whats going to happen. Will it be just penalty with fine, deportation, then Blacklist, or much more. No one answered my question that if someone stay for say ten, twenty, thirty years. Is it the same punishment?
If thats the case, then why don't more people just the hell with it, I'm going to stay illegally as long as I want, and they wont do much to me!
Something tells me that the Government would be pissed off, and give the person some serious jail time. So someone clarify this, and tell us what would happen if a person did overstay for ten, twenty, thirty years?

Is it just a fine, deportation, and blacklist, or much more serious punishment?

I have been given you an answer to this previously. The practice now is that there is no difference in penalties, or the process awaiting you, whether your overstay is 5 months, or 5 or 10 years. You will be processed the same way, and if you don't have another violation on you, the practice is that you will not be fined. But you do need a valid travel document of course, which can be obtained from your embassy, and you need to pay for your own tickets.

It will await detention, deportation and a ban. I suppose the longer your overstay is, the longer will the ban or blacklist be.

It's possible the penalty will include a longer prison time if the overstay is as much as 20 or 30 years, who knows. You want to try it?

The Indonesian immigration can't exactly openly give foreigners the illusion that you are welcome to overstay as long as you want.. There is a limit for everything. Each case is individual.

 

[pantaiema]

By reading the Indonesian Immigration Law and a few posts from foreigners who were in similar situation (in my 17 years as Indonesian Forums' member) , I agree with you that the subject has been relatively simple : deportation & blacklisting .

There are many people who have overstayed their visas for years in developed countries. Do they end up in prison? I am not encouraging this behaviours but this is fact.

In Europe, governments often even offer financial incentives for long-term over stayers to leave voluntarily. Pursuing legal action and imprisonment would be more costly, as court proceedings and detention expenses add up. If they make up the story using Human right as shield, their lawyers would be funded by taxpayers through legal aid. It is a sick system.

I understand that some might argue Indonesia is not a developed country, and I acknowledge that point. However, based on the news I follow in Indonesia regularly, I have never heard of anyone being imprisoned solely for overstaying a visa. Immigration detention, deportation, and blacklisting might be, but not jail time.

If someone is imprisoned, it is likely due to other factors, because they want that person to go to jail, such as political issues, thread to public, terrorism, where immigration violations serve as a convenient legal basis for imprisonment.

Ultimately, no one can predict what will happen in this particular case. The best approach is to face the situation and hope for the best.

 

[marcus]

... I will be mentally prepared for everything, and hope for the best. I hope being polite, showing respect and remorse will go a long way

In case you didn't read yet , here are some links and old posts about the subject :

From expatindo.org/overstaying-your-visa-in-indonesia :
... Don’t display any expensive watches, jewelry, electronics, or other signs of wealth. Do not bring large amounts of cash. If this is found, officials may pressure you to buy your way out of the situation.
Be ready for questions that officials may ask. Stay calm and gracious, don’t raise your voice. Don’t argue and don’t quote the law at them.
Make sure you can explain the circumstances of your overstay. Especially how you managed financially while staying in Indonesia. Important: Working illegally will make your situation much worse, as that is a criminal offense.
Be remorseful and apologetic. Agree that you have made a mistake and that you are willing to face the consequences.
Prepare yourself for the possibility that officials may try to goad or insult you. They may also threaten you with punishment, possibly citing Article 124. Don’t let this scare you, as that article applies mostly to employers who knowingly hire illegal workers... Unless officials become suspicious that some other crime has been committed, you will likely be deported on the same day. However they can legally detain you while they conduct an investigation.
More tips :
The best place to surrender yourself, is an airport with full immigration facilities (Kantor Imigrasi Kelas 1 Khusus). For example, Soekarno-Hatta in Jakarta or Ngurah Rai in Bali. This is because these offices are more likely able to process your immediate departure. Regular immigration offices will be more likely to detain you, as they do not have this authority.
Bring a ticket to leave the country with you. This makes it more likely Immigration will allow you to depart as scheduled. You’ll almost certainly experience a longer detention if you don’t have a ticket in hand.

From expat.or.id/info/overstayingyourvisa.htm :
Be nice and apologetic (non-confrontational) and work with the immigration officer to resolve the overstay issue. They will try to determine what you have done during the overstay period and how you have been living in order to assess if any illegal activities, including working without a work permit, may be suspected. They may check with the police to see if there is a suspicious police report. Be honest and tell them what happened to cause your overstay. Believe me, they've heard every story there is!
If asked, tell Immigration nobody else knew you overstayed your visa. Bring any proof you can get to show what you did in the overstay period.
Your Indonesian friends/family can be threatened for helping you or even for knowing about your lack of valid visa status and not reporting it.
Don't be scared, neither a short or long overstay is a crime. Don't let the immigration officials abuse you in the payment of huge bribe!
Do not be inconsiderate to the immigration officials in the reporting of your overstay. It's your mistake that you overstayed your visa, not theirs. And, don't expect that your embassy will pay the price to get you out of an impossible situation.

Atlantis post (April 2011)
[ ... With a passport in hand, and even with years of overstaying you can have much better perspective. The second step will be to turn you in to the Imigrasi, preferably in an international airport with a ticket to a destination outside Indonesia in hand. Imigrasi will for sure deport you but I know of cases where people didn't have to pay any fines nor bribes.
Imigrasi will need to know what you have done for so many years and how did you live. They will expect answers on how you have done for money matters and if you have been working illegally which is not a good idea...]

Below is a post of a couple with 3 & 1 year overstay (Ago 2010):
[Well to give a final report about the issue. We got out from Indonesia within 2 days without being arrested, detained or paying anything. We went to the immigration one day before the flight and explained our situation. Took some time to convince them that we totally out of money but they finally believed us. We have been interrogated for 7 hours and then been told to go home and come back the next day in the morning. Next day it took 3 hours and we have been sent to the airport to be deported. No problem with Indonesia at all BUT we then got problems with Thailand, we still can't explain why but trying to find out. We had a stopover there until the next day and wanted to stay at the airport. (Not exit to Thailand) already during the flight Thai airways took our passports and in Thailand we had to leave the airplane last. Some guy brought us to a room, I assume detention or something like that where we have been kept without explanations, food or water until the next day. One hour before our flight 2 people escorted us to. the flight and we could enter as last passengers, our passports we still didn't get back. Landed in Germany the German police took us from airplane and interrogated us why we have been deported from Thailand, huuhh??? We explained that we not deported from there and we learned that Thai airways contacted the German authorities and told them we have been deported from Thailand. So think twice what airline you choose.]

 

[André]

In case you didn't read yet , here are some links and old posts about the subject :

Overstayed your visa in Indonesia? - Expat Indo

Have you overstayed your visa in Indonesia? Scared of the consequences? This article explains how to sort through an overstay in Indonesia.

www.expatindo.org

Overstaying your Visa in Indonesia

www.expat.or.id

Atlantis post (April 2011)
[ ... With a passport in hand, and even with years of overstaying you can have much better perspective. The second step will be to turn you in to the Imigrasi, preferably in an international airport with a ticket to a destination outside Indonesia in hand. Imigrasi will for sure deport you but I know of cases where people didn't have to pay any fines nor bribes.
Imigrasi will need to know what you have done for so many years and how did you live. They will expect answers on how you have done for money matters and if you have been working illegally which is not a good idea...]

Below is a post of a couple with 3 & 1 year overstay (Ago 2010):

[Well to give a final report about the issue. We got out from Indonesia within 2 days without being arrested, detained or paying anything. We went to the immigration one day before the flight and explained our situation. Took some time to convince them that we totally out of money but they finally believed us. We have been interrogated for 7 hours and then been told to go home and come back the next day in the morning. Next day it took 3 hours and we have been sent to the airport to be deported. No problem with Indonesia at all BUT we then got problems with Thailand, we still can't explain why but trying to find out. We had a stopover there until the next day and wanted to stay at the airport. (Not exit to Thailand) already during the flight Thai airways took our passports and in Thailand we had to leave the airplane last. Some guy brought us to a room, I assume detention or something like that where we have been kept without explanations, food or water until the next day. One hour before our flight 2 people escorted us to. the flight and we could enter as last passengers, our passports we still didn't get back. Landed in Germany the German police took us from airplane and interrogated us why we have been deported from Thailand, huuhh??? We explained that we not deported from there and we learned that Thai airways contacted the German authorities and told them we have been deported from Thailand. So think twice what airline you choose.]

Thank you, yes, I did read whatever I could find on the subject. Some old stories, a few reasonably new ones. But the embassies sit on many stories that never reach the surface, so I've been gathering some information from them too.

Your second link I did in fact post here a few posts ago.

I went into this forum hoping someone had a recent experience from similar cases with "ticket in hand". So far none has turned up, but I hope this thread can stay open, to see what might turn up the next month or so.

A lot of helpful posts have been posted though, and that is much appreciated

 

[pantaiema]

I have read this case previously, It takes me sometimes to find it. But this is the case similar to the OP. I have read a lot of stories like this.

Imigrasi deportasi warga Amerika di Bali karena "overstay" 1.073 hari - ANTARA News Bali

Kantor Imigrasi Kelas I TPI Denpasar pada Selasa mendeportasi seorang warga negara Amerika Serikat berinisial RK (usia 46 tahun) karena dia tinggal melebihi ...

bali.antaranews.com

Immigration deports US citizen in Bali for "overstaying" 1,073 days. This is quite recent reported on 4 April 2023

https://timesindonesia.co.id/perist...-dideportasi-karena-overstay-123-hari-di-bali US Citizen Deported for Overstaying 123 Days in Bali 08 Maret 2024

https://indonesiaexpat.id/news/canadian-deported-after-overstay-for-776-days/ Canadian Deported After Overstay for 776 Days July 11, 2022

For the op, stay strong it has happened. You will need to have similar mentality with the over stayers in Europe and in other developed countries. The likelihood is immigration detention (as a deterrence), deportation, and blacklisted. You do not even need to pay a penny if you pay for your own ticket. Let alone paying Rp60m ??

 

[André]

I have read this case previously, It takes me sometimes to find it. But this is the case similar to the OP. I have read a lot of stories like this.

Imigrasi deportasi warga Amerika di Bali karena "overstay" 1.073 hari - ANTARA News Bali

Kantor Imigrasi Kelas I TPI Denpasar pada Selasa mendeportasi seorang warga negara Amerika Serikat berinisial RK (usia 46 tahun) karena dia tinggal melebihi ...

bali.antaranews.com

Immigration deports US citizen in Bali for "overstaying" 1,073 days. This is quite recent reported on 4 April 2023

https://timesindonesia.co.id/perist...-dideportasi-karena-overstay-123-hari-di-bali US Citizen Deported for Overstaying 123 Days in Bali

https://indonesiaexpat.id/news/canadian-deported-after-overstay-for-776-days/ Canadian Deported After Overstay for 776 Days

For the op, stay strong it has happened. You will need to have similar mentality with the over stayers in Europe and in other developed countries. Let alone paying Rp60m ??

Thanks. No fine mentioned in any of these 3 cases, so there (most likely) wasn't any to pay, as I have expected.

In the second case, he was detained showing up, it seems, with a ticket in hand at Denpasar. He could not fly out before 3 days later, so I suppose he lost his first ticket, if that was the case. So there you go, there is the risk that might happen.

The last case was an arrest outside the airport, which subsequently took 35 days to settle before he was able to leave. He wasn't prepared.

I need of course to get to the airport, which most likely will give me the shortest possible detention before I can leave. The ticket in hand scenario might possibly go through the same day, or the next, but I do not think I will risk that.
In any scenario, deportation and a ban/blacklist is expected.

Thanks for your links

 

[Shadrach]

This is all such a bunch of ridiculous Crap about People knowingly overstaying their Visa's. The guy saying he didn't know the information is a strait out Lie. Of course he knew. Everyone knows, if you come to a foreign country, you get a time limited Visa. If you overstay, it is not by accident. It is intentional. Of course it's possible they could have had a calamity, or sickness, Etc. But they know they are overstaying and should abide by the rules, or notify immigration immediately if there is a reason they can't leave.
If it was up to me. I think the whole World is our Home, and Everyone should be free to live wherever they want and can afford too.
Abolish Passports, Borders, Immigration authorities, Police, Prisons, Jails, and all the ridiculous Crap that keep everyone separated!
We are all one family of Humans living on this Planet. Who can say this is mine and not yours? It is all for all of Us!
We just need to stop the Power hungry Assholes, and the Fear of the Unknown! FREEDOM FOR ALL

 

[André]

This is all such a bunch of ridiculous Crap about People knowingly overstaying their Visa's. The guy saying he didn't know the information is a strait out Lie. Of course he knew. Everyone knows, if you come to a foreign country, you get a time limited Visa. If you overstay, it is not by accident. It is intentional. Of course it's possible they could have had a calamity, or sickness, Etc. But they know they are overstaying and should abide by the rules, or notify immigration immediately if there is a reason they can't leave.
If it was up to me. I think the whole World is our Home, and Everyone should be free to live wherever they want and can afford too.
Abolish Passports, Borders, Immigration authorities, Police, Prisons, Jails, and all the ridiculous Crap that keep everyone separated!
We are all one family of Humans living on this Planet. Who can say this is mine and not yours? It is all for all of Us!
We just need to stop the Power hungry Assholes, and the Fear of the Unknown! FREEDOM FOR ALL

Of course everyone knows, or knew they were on overstay. I don't think anyone "forget" the expiry date of their allowed stay. That's just a lame excuse. But a day or two on the wrong side, might of course be possible to somehow mix up.

There might be numerous reasons why people overstay, so I won't judge, since I unwillingly got into that position myself. However, I think Indonesia's very aggressive penalties for short overstays, is the reason most people find themselves continuing to a longer overstay. 1 million rupiah a day is a really hard punishment, and it quickly adds up to an amount they just can't cover. Although it might and should prevent anyone from overstaying in the first place, it will have a negative effect if you somehow get on that train.

Let's for example compare the Indonesian penalty with the most popular destination in SE Asia, Thailand. The daily fine is 4 times higher in Indonesia, and the maximum fine is 6 times higher. That is a huge difference.

In addition, the fine is in most cases waived when you exceed 60 days in Indonesia, that means your financial situation might be the decider whether you just don't have any other choice than to wait it out, until your overstay is of a more severe and longer kind, but yet manageable.

And when first expats find themselves on this overstay path, they might as well just continue a little longer, depending on their own situation. Maybe they're just stuck somehow.

I have no respect for people who do this on purpose, but life isn't always that black and white, unfortunately.

That said, don't think for a moment that overstaying is something any foreigners takes lightly, or is a "solution" for anyone, or something it's easy to get away with. In my case it has been a nightmare. Immigration do random checks at the kosts, hotels, Reddoorz or whatever they are all called, to weed out foreigners on overstay. During covid, when the airport was opened and international travels allowed, they actively did that a long time. A city like mine here in Medan, was reducing the amount of foreigners rapidly.

You might also be reported at any point, or having your passport checked on the street, so spending your days always looking over your shoulder, and hiding out, is not a way to live. Trust me. So I don't think anyone is comfortable with going that path, and they shouldn't be. That's the reason most do not let this go too far out of hand, but do come up with a solution to continue their life.