Wife divorced me in secret. How to prove it?

[Mr Derek]

I don't know if this is a unique case...

I'm British. I married my Indonesian wife in the 90s (Muslim ceremony, green book, the full monty). We lived very happily in England for a number of years, though no children, then we moved to Singapore and Hong Kong which caused unfortunate complications and a kind of long separation, though I never wanted a divorce. I should have taken her back to England at that point but foolishly stayed in Asia. After a time, it seemed she 'reverted' to full Indonesian and announced she was marrying someone else and then ceased all communication (she's Javanese priyayi - proud and headstrong and a bit bipolar).

I do not know her address (which was last in Bandung) - only her parents' house, but they have since died. I have let years pass in the hope that her mood would change and we might get back together. I now live in Thailand. Only recently, I learned from someone that she had in fact divorced me some years ago through the Kantor Urusan Agama without telling me or showing me any documentation, before, during or after. I have tried various means of contacting her about this but, predictably - out of guilt - she is not replying.

I have now given up on her, but in order to be free to remarry, I need proof of the divorce. Presumably there is some official divorce certificate in a KUA office somewhere. As I can't get this from her for the asking, does anyone know where such public records are kept? The KUA offices in Bandung all seem to be small local affairs and there is about 30 of them and no 'head office' as far as I can see. I will go there soon to sort this out but expect it to be far more difficult than it ought to be.

Appreciate any suggestions.

 

[Bad_azz]

I spoke with my husband about this-he says it is not gonna be easy and suggests that you connect with the neighbours of the old address. They will tell you who the local RT /RW are- these guys should have some documents about change of address, or just usually locals know who moved where etc. (Hubby also suggests that you go with an envelope with 100,000 IDR in it to incentivize assistance. )
Other than that you might try the catatan sipil,(assuming you are able to visit Bandung) but depending on your wife's address when you guys married, it could be any one of 3 offices - there is the city central / the Kabupaten Bandung (Soreang)/ Bandung Barat and I don't know where that one is now, they moved office.

 

[Mr Derek]

I spoke with my husband about this-he says it is not gonna be easy and suggests that you connect with the neighbours of the old address. They will tell you who the local RT /RW are- these guys should have some documents about change of address, or just usually locals know who moved where etc. (Hubby also suggests that you go with an envelope with 100,000 IDR in it to incentivize assistance. )
Other than that you might try the catatan sipil,(assuming you are able to visit Bandung) but depending on your wife's address when you guys married, it could be any one of 3 offices - there is the city central / the Kabupaten Bandung (Soreang)/ Bandung Barat and I don't know where that one is now, they moved office.

Thanks, but I think simply finding her wouldn't help. The last time I saw her (at her parents' house some years ago) she just ran out and disappeared and her parents (who always liked me well enough) were too old to do anything. She and her current husband are no doubt afraid I could cause big trouble for them if I contest the divorce - which I guess I could do because any divorce obtained in secret and against the husband's wishes can hardly be valid. I have no intention of contesting it, I just want the certificate, but even if I found them, they probably wouldn't trust me and no doubt she is now under the mind-control of her husband who I guess is jealous and ultra-possessive.

I will try that Catatan Sipil office in case they can help - thanks - though I hear they only deal with civil marriages; Muslim marriages are dealt with by the Kantor Urusan Agama. I guess I'll just have to walk into one of their local offices and see what they say. I suppose it is too much to hope that there is a general public records office for marriages/divorces somewhere. Last resort would be to get a lawyer on the case, though of course I'd rather avoid that.

 

[Bad_azz]

Thanks, but I think simply finding her wouldn't help. The last time I saw her (at her parents' house some years ago) she just ran out and disappeared and her parents (who always liked me well enough) were too old to do anything. She and her current husband are no doubt afraid I could cause big trouble for them if I contest the divorce - which I guess I could do because any divorce obtained in secret and against the husband's wishes can hardly be valid. I have no intention of contesting it, I just want the certificate, but even if I found them, they probably wouldn't trust me and no doubt she is now under the mind-control of her husband who I guess is jealous and ultra-possessive.

I will try that Catatan Sipil office in case they can help - thanks - though I hear they only deal with civil marriages; Muslim marriages are dealt with by the Kantor Urusan Agama. I guess I'll just have to walk into one of their local offices and see what they say. I suppose it is too much to hope that there is a general public records office for marriages/divorces somewhere. Last resort would be to get a lawyer on the case, though of course I'd rather avoid that.

You will likely need to find her location whether you wish to contact her or not, because the bureaucrats will ask for it... Especially if you don't have it haha, such is Murphy's Law.

 

[Ruserious]

Instead of finding her could you cancel the marriage yourself? Since she has run off.
Probably mean lawyers though

 

[atlantis]

You may have a lead here: https://putusan3.mahkamahagung.go.id/direktori/index/kategori/perdata-agama-1.html

Many (theoretically, all) justice decision of the past 10 to 15 years are online and can be accessed through MA website.
I assume your name is a western one so it should help you a lot if the keputusan of the Pengadilan Agama which adjudicated your divorce has been uploaded. Having a name like Bambang or Joko would most probably return a lot of result but with a western family name it should reduce the results to just a few or even only one if you aren't named Smith or Wang. Derek is not uncommon as a first name in Indonesia so it may be better to use your family name in the search engine.
If you can locate it in the search engine then it would give you anything you need to get a copy of your Akta Cerai since with the Keputusan you will have the date and place the divorce has been adjudicated. If you read the keputusan it will also give you an idea on how and why your wife has divorced.

 

[atlantis]

@Mr Derek I have PMed you another link which may be concerning you.
If it doesn't, apologies for wasting your time.
If it does then you have to first go to the Pengadilan Agama concerned and ask for a copy of the justice decision, then with the copy of the decision you will be able to have an Akta Cerai.

 

[Mr Derek]

You may have a lead here: https://putusan3.mahkamahagung.go.id/direktori/index/kategori/perdata-agama-1.html

Many (theoretically, all) justice decision of the past 10 to 15 years are online and can be accessed through MA website.
I assume your name is a western one so it should help you a lot if the keputusan of the Pengadilan Agama which adjudicated your divorce has been uploaded. Having a name like Bambang or Joko would most probably return a lot of result but with a western family name it should reduce the results to just a few or even only one if you aren't named Smith or Wang. Derek is not uncommon as a first name in Indonesia so it may be better to use your family name in the search engine.
If you can locate it in the search engine then it would give you anything you need to get a copy of your Akta Cerai since with the Keputusan you will have the date and place the divorce has been adjudicated. If you read the keputusan it will also give you an idea on how and why your wife has divorced.

That would have been great - her name is totally unique and should be easy to find - but I'm not finding anything. My best guess is that the divorce took place between 2005 and 2008 (yes, I've let it drift that long) and unfortunately that seems to be out of range for these records.

No doubt the key thing is to identify the office that did the divorce and go there. I'll start with the ones nearest her parents' address, which is where I last set eyes on her. What a day that's going to be.

 

[Mr Derek]

Instead of finding her could you cancel the marriage yourself? Since she has run off.
Probably mean lawyers though

Not in Indonesia because I don't live there. I could do that in the UK but I'm told I would have to go back and reside there for at least six months before the courts will deal with it - and that's not going to happen.

 

[Mr Derek]

@Mr Derek I have PMed you another link which may be concerning you.
If it doesn't, apologies for wasting your time.
If it does then you have to first go to the Pengadilan Agama concerned and ask for a copy of the justice decision, then with the copy of the decision you will be able to have an Akta Cerai.

Appreciate the try but that's not me.
Derek is not my real name - it comes from the old Basil Brush show - sorry.

 

[Mr Derek]

You will likely need to find her location whether you wish to contact her or not, because the bureaucrats will ask for it... Especially if you don't have it haha, such is Murphy's Law.

I'm hoping not, just to get hold of the certificate, but I could always give them her parents' old address. They were both from bigshot families during the Sukarno-Suharto era - don't know if that still counts for anything...

 

[atlantis]

That would have been great - her name is totally unique and should be easy to find - but I'm not finding anything. My best guess is that the divorce took place between 2005 and 2008 (yes, I've let it drift that long) and unfortunately that seems to be out of range for these records.

Yes, 2005 to 2008 would be too old since it's only since UU 14/2008 that all governmental offices started to be more transparent concerning information.
Sorry for no being able to be of more help.

 

[fastpitch17]

Evidently you have someone doing all the running around for you in Indonesia. Seems to me that due to your own roads traveled concerning your marriage and now the 16 to 18 years of it's ending, you should probably just seek your own divorce somewhere else. You are in Thailand now and suddenly needing that divorce you ignored for so many years just makes me think you want to get married to a Thai now. Good luck with that.

So, if you really want a divorce, go get one yourself and save some time and cash because you probably won't get any remedy in Indonesia.

 

[El_Goretto]

Evidently you have someone doing all the running around for you in Indonesia. Seems to me that due to your own roads traveled concerning your marriage and now the 16 to 18 years of it's ending, you should probably just seek your own divorce somewhere else. You are in Thailand now and suddenly needing that divorce you ignored for so many years just makes me think you want to get married to a Thai now. Good luck with that.

So, if you really want a divorce, go get one yourself and save some time and cash because you probably won't get any remedy in Indonesia.

That's not that simple.

If the Indonesian marriage was registered at his embassy, then the embassy will require the court decision from Indonesia in order to change his marriage status in his home country. This is a must if a certificate of non-impediment is required in Thailand, which it most likely is.

 

[fastpitch17]

That's not that simple.

If the Indonesian marriage was registered at his embassy, then the embassy will require the court decision from Indonesia in order to change his marriage status in his home country. This is a must if a certificate of non-impediment is required in Thailand, which it most likely is.

Like I said. He needs to get his own divorce like he never had one. Only way he is going to get out from under it.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

That's not that simple.

If the Indonesian marriage was registered at his embassy, then the embassy will require the court decision from Indonesia in order to change his marriage status in his home country. This is a must if a certificate of non-impediment is required in Thailand, which it most likely is.

If Mr Derek really wants to get married to some Thai dirty Gerty from number 30, then actually it is not much of a problem.
British authorities do not record marriages of their citizens who have married abroad.

To get married in Thailand all he needs is to get a statement of no impediment from the British Embassy in Bangkok. This involves filling in a form at the embassy and then they will sign it. They do not check any records or make any inquiries about whether the statement is true or not. (Personal experience - they do it in about 20 minutes).

Since he apparently has got divorced in Indonesia then it does not even involve telling a lie. Just pretend that the marriage never happened (which, you could argue, it didn't).

 

[jstar]

The problem is they lived in the UK for some years.

So I assume they ‘registered’ or at least made a statement there of being married.

Same for many other countries btw; nowadays it’s not mandatory anymore to register your marriage when living abroad. Of course it changes when you’re in the Civil Registry files of your home country, they do keep a marital status.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

That might be a problem if he wants to get married in the UK, but since he is in Thailand I don't think it is relevant. I don't think there is a central register of marriages in the UK to check (certainly not for foreign marriages), and the British embassy in Thailand certainly wouldn't check anything. If he moved back to the UK at some point (with a different wife) someone might notice, but probably no-one would care. I can't think of anyone who would have the right to request to see his previous divorce certificate, or why anyone would want to.

As an illustration, when you want to get married in the UK, you have to announce in the church, 3 weeks in a row, that you are getting married, to give anyone a chance to object. It's a system that relies a lot on trust. Not a bureaucratic system. [that's also why the UK does not have ID cards, which causes a lot of issues]

 

[Mr Derek]

What I've been informed about my situation is that to be able to remarry I need a letter from the British embassy stating that I am free to do so. To get that clearance, anyone who has been previously married simply has to show proof of a divorce, so I just need a certified copy of the akta cerai divorce certificate (plus a notarised English translation). That is what I will soon be trying to extract from the Indonesian system.

As someone above rightly suspected, we did perforce marry again in the UK back in the 90s - so there were two legally valid ceremonies. Advice from a UK lawyer though tells me that a divorce in an Indonesian court is sufficient to nullify the UK marriage with no further action on that necessary.

I would rather do this above board. It never occurred to me to hide the fact of the marriage from the British embassy. I assumed they would routinely run a check on the UK register, otherwise what is the point of that letter?

 

[Helpful Herbert]

If you officially got married in the UK why can't you do the divorce in the UK as well? I'm sure it would be a lot easier than trying to do it in Indonesia.
I'm not sure if it is even legal to get married twice to the same person in different countries, because you must have lied on your second marriage application by saying you were not previously married, although that is a different question.