Child Leaving the country with a new British passport

[ZeroManning]

Hi! I am having a few concerns regarding the passport status of my child. The current scenario is as folows:

I was married to an Indonesian wife and after having a child we ended up getting a divorce. I am now re-married to an Indonesian and my child is 14 years old. He currently has a British passport, but after attempting to renew his Indonesian passport I was told that he would not be able to get a new one without my ex-wives permission. The problem here is I am no longer in contact with her for years and realistically will not be able to contact her.

My question is if Mr and my son want to travel abroad for a holiday, say to Singapore, would he be able to leave the country with his British passport? He has never entered or left the country on the British passport before, so I am unsure if he would get flagged at immigration. Would he have trouble re-entering the country? I am under a kitas with my current wife so I would be covered, but I'd be worried if my son would be placed on a 30 day visitor visa. He is Indonesian, born in Indonesia and has a birth certificate here.

Any help would be great appreciated

 

[snpark]

So his visa is in his Indo passport? And it expires? Visa is from current wife

You need to get it moved to the UK passport first

Get a good agent. It's just less headache.

Then he can leave and renenter on the UK


Suggest you also get a new UK passport soon renew it and just keep one passport for in and out Indonesia

At 18 he can't have dual nat anyway

So as long as there is a legal visa in 1 passport stick to that

Getting the new UK passport just means it's new up to date King and UK version valid for 10years and the ex won't know the number.

Probably others will have ideas too.

It's all doable and easier with an agent let then waste time at the immigration

 

[marcus]

... I was married to an Indonesian wife and after having a child we ended up getting a divorce ... my child is 14 years old. He currently has a British passport ... He is Indonesian, born in Indonesia and has a birth certificate here.

My question is if Me and my son want to travel abroad ... would he be able to leave the country with his British passport? ...

No , unless you/he can prove he has dual citizenship (British + Indonesian) . And you cannot prove with his birth certificate . You will need an 'Affidavit ' (dual citizenship statement) or a 'Sertifikat Pendaftaran Anak Berkewarganegaraan Ganda' (ABG)/'Certificate of Proof of Registration of a Child with Dual Citizenship' .

Note : In my view, if you didn't apply for your son's dual citizenship , he is only a British citizen , since he got the British passport .

Would he have trouble re-entering the country? ...

No , if he uses his British passport + the dual citizenship's proof . Otherwise , yes , he will be considered just a British and should get a Visa .

 

[pantaiema]

It is not clear where your son is now, is it in ID or the UK! The information below is assuming he is currently in Indonesia and want to travel to Singapore (or wherever) with you.

Does he already have an affidavit? If not, he may have difficulty leaving Indonesia, let alone re-entering Indonesia. Even if he is travelling with both of his biological parents (you and your ex-wife) he will have the problem re-entering Indonesia. As he was born in 2012, he still have the time to process his affidavit. He will need an affidavit later anyway when he decide to choose his British citizenship and renouncing his Indonesian citizenship at the age of 18+3yo.
Another thing to consider is the complication if he is currently living in Indonesia, does not elect (declare) which nationality he want to keep later after reaching the age of (18+3yo). I just posted the case similar but not like for like (post #49). He was in fortunate situation as he got the minister to push the case forward.

Steps for a dual citizen below 21, having been living in Indonesia since birth, to go abroad with his foreign passport (empty of stamps)

I think what’s causing confusion here is that you haven’t clearly and confidently stated that you have seen he actually has an affidavit on his passport. In post #27, you wrote: ‘As far as I know, my son SHOULD have an affidavit in his foreign passport to be able to leave Indonesia, but the...

www.expatindo.org

In the past, there have been several reports that children with limited dual nationality do not need a passport to enter or leave Indonesia. Instead, they only need an affidavit and their foreign passport. In your son case you mentioned 'after attempting to Renew his Indonesian passport ..' This indicate that he might already have an affidavit. Typically they will only give an Indonesian passport when you have registered his limited dual citizenship. Unless, of course if the immigration is not aware that he is a mixed marriage children as nobody tells them. Did the immigration official inform you that he could still travel in and out ID with his foreign passport + affidavit ?? If he said yes, then you do not need the complication to renew his ID passport.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

You definitely need an affidavit to be able to go through passport control either way. The only problem is I think from memory you need the permission\documents of the mother to get an affidavit. Unless you could prove you have sole custody maybe?
I suggest you go to the local immigration office and ask them.

 

[jstar]

Yep that could be a problem. Esp. since the mother is the WNI.

In many countries it is also necessary to have a letter of consent if only one of the parents travels with a minor. I’ve never seen that being required iin RI but someone at the border could always ask…

 

[centurion]

No , unless you/he can prove he has dual citizenship (British + Indonesian) . And you cannot prove with his birth certificate . You will need an 'Affidavit ' (dual citizenship statement) or a 'Sertifikat Pendaftaran Anak Berkewarganegaraan Ganda' (ABG)/'Certificate of Proof of Registration of a Child with Dual Citizenship' .

Note : In my view, if you didn't apply for your son's dual citizenship , he is only a British citizen , since he got the British passport .

No , if he uses his British passport + the dual citizenship's proof . Otherwise , yes , he will be considered just a British and should get a Visa .

You are correct. Basically he is illegally in Indonesia and can be deported.

 

[pantaiema]

You are correct. Basically he is illegally in Indonesia and can be deported.

This is misleading. Under Indonesian new citizenship law (UU_No_12_2006), a child born from a mixed marriage involving an Indonesian parent is granted limited dual citizenship by operation of law, not through administrative documents such as an affidavit and/or Indonesian passport. His citizenship is based on UU_No_12_2006 article 4, 5, 6

The affidavit is not proof of citizenship; it is only an immigration facilitation document used to assist border control and travel for children who already qualify under the law. As he is an Indonesian citizen, he is entitled to live in Indonesia until the deadline to make an election.

In this case, the OP son is 14 years old, one parent is wni and the WNI mother is still legally acknowledged (e.g no divorce and/or no official full custodian from the father). He was born in Indonesia, so he is still fully within the legal category of a minor with recognised limited dual citizenship status. As an Indonesian citizen, he is entitled to live in Indonesia until the age of 18+3.

Also this is a solid proof from the OP statement:
"He currently has a British passport, but after attempting to renew his Indonesian passport I was told that he would not be able to get a new one without my ex-wives permission"
If what you said was true, he would have faced an immediate deportation as he was already known by the immigration to live in the country illegally.

It will be entirely different if the son was born before 2006, e.g before the new limited dual citizenship for children UU_No_12_2006 was introduced.

The obligation to choose a single nationality only arises at age 18, with a transition period up to age 21, as provided under Indonesian citizenship law. If a person does not make a declaration of choice within that period, the consequence is the loss of Indonesian citizenship by operation of law.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I don't think it is enough to make a declaration of choice. They also have to formally renounce the citizenship of the other country (in the case that they choose Indonesian). You can't just turn up to immigration and say 'I choose Indonesian citizenship' and they say 'okay fine here's your new passport'.

 

[pantaiema]

I don't think it is enough to make a declaration of choice. They also have to formally renounce the citizenship of the other country (in the case that they choose Indonesian). You can't just turn up to immigration and say 'I choose Indonesian citizenship' and they say 'okay fine here's your new passport'.

I have read several accounts from people who have actually gone through this process.

They will need to complete the Declaration of Choosing Citizenship form and submit it, along with the other required documents, through the Sistem Administrasi Kewarganegaraan Elektronik (SAKE) / AHU portal, which is managed by the Ministry of Law and Human Rights. The attached document is an example of the paperwork that must be submitted. As you will notice, an affidavit is also required at this stage.

As I mentioned in Post #4, it is in the parents' best interest to obtain an affidavit as soon as possible. However, for children covered under Indonesia's dual citizenship provisions, not having an affidavit if they do not intend to do an international travel, does not mean they are residing in Indonesia illegally.

If the election is Indonesian citizenship, as you could see in the attached document they require "Statement letter renunciation of foreign citizenship legalised by the authorised foreign state official.'

Also it is shown in this link that I have shared previously

But the Indonesian government must also ensure that the child will not become stateless when making this election. The approval of citizenship applications, renunciations of citizenship must ultimately be authorised by the Indonesian President.

 

[marcus]

This is misleading. Under Indonesian new citizenship law (UU_No_12_2006), a child born from a mixed marriage involving an Indonesian parent is granted limited dual citizenship by operation of law, not through administrative documents such as an affidavit and/or Indonesian passport. His citizenship is based on UU_No_12_2006 article 4, 5, 6

I think it is you who are misleading people .

Looking at Articles 4, 5, and 6 of UU no.12 Year 2006 (below) , Article 6 (1) says : "If ... results in the child having dual citizenship ..." is not enough to support what you said .

From https://ngurahrai.imigrasi.go.id/anak-berkewarganegaraan-ganda/#1760939702946-fd0bfbbc-0f29 (Kantor Imigrasi Ngurah Rai) : "Based on the Regulation of the Minister of Law and Human Rights Number 22 of 2012, children with dual citizenship are MANDATORY to be registered by their parents or guardians, whether in Indonesia or outside Indonesia." , meaning that the Law does not grant the dual citizenship automatically .

------------------------------

UU no.12 Year 2006 - free translation (only parts related to OP's/ZeroManning's case)
Article 4
An Indonesian citizen is:
a. , b. , c. ...
d. a child born of a legal marriage of a foreign citizen father and an Indonesian citizen mother;
.........
Article 5 (not applicable to OP's case)
(1) Children of Indonesian citizens born out of legal wedlock, ...
(2) Children of Indonesian citizens under the age of 5 (five) years who are legally adopted ...
Article 6
(1) If the Indonesian citizenship status of a child as referred to in Article 4, letters c, d, h, l, and Article 5 results in the child having dual citizenship, upon reaching the age of 18 years or marriage, the child shall declare his or her choice of citizenship.
(2) The declaration of choice of citizenship shall be made in writing and submitted ...
(3) ...

The affidavit is not proof of citizenship ...

"The "Immigration Facility/Affidavit" is a card issued to children with dual citizenship who hold foreign passport ..." , from https://ngurahrai.imigrasi.go.id/anak-berkewarganegaraan-ganda/#1760939702946-fd0bfbbc-0f29 (Kantor Imigrasi Ngurah Rai) .

As he is an Indonesian citizen ... He was born in Indonesia, so he is still fully within the legal category of a minor with recognised limited dual citizenship status. ...
Also this is a solid proof from the OP statement:
"He currently has a British passport, but after attempting to renew his Indonesian passport ...

Neither you nor the OP proved that the OP's child is Indonesian & British (dual citizenship) .

The fact that the child has a British passport + had an Indonesian passport means one of these situations :
a) The child has dual citizenship if his parents applied for dual citizenship ; or
b) The child is only a British citizen , if his parents did not apply for dual citizenship . This because the child automatically got the Indonesian citizenship under Article 4 of UU no.12 Year 2006 , but by not applying for a dual citizenship he automatically lost his Indonesian citizenship when he got the British passport (see Law & Regulation below) .

-------------------------------------

Article 23 of UU no.12 Year 2006 - free translation
An Indonesian citizen loses his or her citizenship if he or she:
.....
h. holds a passport or ... from a foreign country or a document that can be interpreted as valid proof of citizenship from another country in his or her name; or
.....

-------------------

PP no.2 Year 2007 - free translation
Article 31
(1) Indonesian citizens automatically lose their citizenship if:
......
g. they have a passport or ... from a foreign country or a document that can be interpreted as a valid sign of citizenship from another country in their name; or

 

[pantaiema]

I think it is you who are misleading people .

Looking at Articles 4, 5, and 6 of UU no.12 Year 2006 (below) , Article 6 (1) says : "If ... results in the child having dual citizenship ..." is not enough to support what you said .

From https://ngurahrai.imigrasi.go.id/anak-berkewarganegaraan-ganda/#1760939702946-fd0bfbbc-0f29 (Kantor Imigrasi Ngurah Rai) : "Based on the Regulation of the Minister of Law and Human Rights Number 22 of 2012, children with dual citizenship are MANDATORY to be registered by their parents or guardians, whether in Indonesia or outside Indonesia." , meaning that the Law does not grant the dual citizenship automatically .

------------------------------

UU no.12 Year 2006 - free translation (only parts related to OP's/ZeroManning's case)
Article 4
An Indonesian citizen is:
a. , b. , c. ...
d. a child born of a legal marriage of a foreign citizen father and an Indonesian citizen mother;
.........
Article 5 (not applicable to OP's case)
(1) Children of Indonesian citizens born out of legal wedlock, ...
(2) Children of Indonesian citizens under the age of 5 (five) years who are legally adopted ...
Article 6
(1) If the Indonesian citizenship status of a child as referred to in Article 4, letters c, d, h, l, and Article 5 results in the child having dual citizenship, upon reaching the age of 18 years or marriage, the child shall declare his or her choice of citizenship.
(2) The declaration of choice of citizenship shall be made in writing and submitted ...
(3) ...

"The "Immigration Facility/Affidavit" is a card issued to children with dual citizenship who hold foreign passport ..." , from https://ngurahrai.imigrasi.go.id/anak-berkewarganegaraan-ganda/#1760939702946-fd0bfbbc-0f29 (Kantor Imigrasi Ngurah Rai) .

Neither you nor the OP proved that the OP's child is Indonesian .

The fact that the child has a British passport means one of these situations :
a) The child has dual citizenship if his parents applied for dual citizenship ; or
b) The child is only a British citizen , if his parents did not apply for dual citizenship . This because the child automatically got the Indonesian citizenship under Article 4 of UU no.12 Year 2006 , but by not applying for a dual citizenship he automatically lost his Indonesian citizenship when he got the British passport (see Law & Regulation below) .

-------------------------------------

Article 23 of UU no.12 Year 2006 - free translation
An Indonesian citizen loses his or her citizenship if he or she:
.....
h. holds a passport or ... from a foreign country or a document that can be interpreted as valid proof of citizenship from another country in his or her name; or
.....

-------------------

PP no.2 Year 2007 - free translation
Article 31
(1) Indonesian citizens automatically lose their citizenship if:
......
g. they have a passport or ... from a foreign country or a document that can be interpreted as a valid sign of citizenship from another country in their name; or

Reread what I said.
I never say the children should not have an affidavit. Not having an affidavit if one of the parent is an Indonesian citizen, does not mean he is illegally living in the country. This is what I am disputing. Could you find any article in the new law/regulation saying otherwise.

He is still 14 years old and he still has time until reaching 18yo to get an affidavit. An affidavit is intended

1. As a requirement to choose citizenship when he is 18 years old
2. To get immigration facility especially for international trip.
3. To be certified as limited dual citizenship

I have read multiple cases like this. This is also official information from the immigration

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Unless it has been stated otherwise, having born in Indonesia with one parent of WNI, the new law UU_No_12_2006 introducing the limited dual citizenship firmly confirmed that he is an Indonesian Citizen.

The OP children is a living evidence. why do not the immigration deport him knowingly he has been living the country for so long illegally ???
Now, could you find any living example where the case like this mixed marriage children, born after 2006 are deported for living in Indonesia illegally?

 

[marcus]

Reread what I said.

To me you are so complicated that I have read many times already .

... Not having an affidavit ... does not mean he is illegally living in the country ...

I think that you misunderstand what I & Centurion meant .

The illegality would not be related to 'not having an Affidavit' but instead due to 'not applying for the dual citizenship' , if this is the case .

In other words , IF the parents did not apply for the dual citizenship (Indonesian & British) , having a British passport means the child lost the Indonesian citizenship and became a British citizen (see details in post no.11 above) . The father assumed that the child is Indonesian , so he probably didn't get a KITAS (as he has himself) for the child , legally necessary in this situation .

-----------------------------

From https://jogja.imigrasi.go.id/affida...-berkewarganegaraan-ganda-temukan-jawabannya/ (Yogyakarta Immigration Office)
Title : Affidavit or Indonesian Passport for Children with Dual Citizenship? Find the Answer
By Aditya Indratna , March 2022

... If the foreign passport is used, the Affidavit must be requested. Conversely, those who choose to use an Indonesian passport do not need an Affidavit ...

 

[pantaiema]

To me you are so complicated that I have read many times already .

I think that you misunderstand what I & Centurion meant .

The illegality would not be related to 'not having an Affidavit' but instead due to 'not applying for the dual citizenship' , if this is the case .

In other words , IF the parents did not apply for the dual citizenship (Indonesian & British) , having a British passport means the child lost the Indonesian citizenship and became a British citizen (see details in post no.11 above) . The father assumed that the child is Indonesian , so he probably didn't get a KITAS (as he has himself) for the child , legally necessary in this situation .

-----------------------------

From https://jogja.imigrasi.go.id/affida...-berkewarganegaraan-ganda-temukan-jawabannya/ (Yogyakarta Immigration Office)
Title : Affidavit or Indonesian Passport for Children with Dual Citizenship? Find the Answer
By Aditya Indratna , March 2022

... If the foreign passport is used, the Affidavit must be requested. Conversely, those who choose to use an Indonesian passport do not need an Affidavit ...

Did you read my post #3
"In the past, there have been several reports that children with limited dual nationality do not need a passport to enter or leave Indonesia. Instead, they only need an affidavit and their foreign passport. In your son case you mentioned 'after attempting to Renew his Indonesian passport ..' This indicate that he might already have an affidavit. Typically they will only give an Indonesian passport when you have registered his limited dual citizenship. Unless, of course if the immigration is not aware that he is a mixed marriage children as nobody tells them."

I am again disputing post #7, the claim that the child is currently living in Indonesia illegally.

The child’s citizenship and therefore his legal right of residence in Indonesia while present there is clearly established under Indonesian law. His right to abode in Indonesia as an Indonesian citizen is determined by the operation of the law not by administrative mean.

An affidavit or passport is an immigration administrative document, especially for international travelling in and out In Indonesia not proof of citizenship. Therefore, not having an affidavit while in Indonesia does not automatically indicate illegal residence. Indonesian immigration typically ask for an affidavit before issuing an Indonesian passport.

I have repeatedly made this point, yet it has not been addressed despite repeatedly stated. 'If he were truly living in the country Illegally, he would have been deported. The immigration only refuse to renew his passport not that claiming he has been living in Indonesia Illegally, and therefore due for a deportation.