Wife divorced me in secret. How to prove it?

[kripik-pisang]

I don't think there is a central register of marriages in the UK to check

Actually there is and its all online. I recently had to get a copy of my marriage certificate, in order to get the Germans (where nothing is online) to give me a copy of the death certificate of my ex-wife.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

If you're talking about the registry office (https://www.gov.uk/general-register-office) this only covers marriages that took place in the UK, not those that took place abroad.

"In general, a marriage abroad will be legally recognised in the UK provided it was contracted according to the law in the country in which it was officiated. There is no requirement, or facility to register the marriage in England afterwards."

 

[Mr Derek]

As far as I can recall, the instruction to marry again in the UK came from the British embassy. I assure you we wouldn't have done if it wasn't necessary at the time. Perhaps the rules have changed since.

Anyway, an update on this. I paid 5 million to a lawyer in Indonesia to track down the divorce certificate and mail the original to me, which is a little bit cheaper than hauling myself over there and slogging around the streets. Getting hold of the certificate from the KUA office, once he had found the right place, was apparently very easy and straightforward - he has shown me a pdf copy by email.

However, now he is demanding another million just to mail the original (which I need) because he says he can't afford the postage after a run of bad luck(!) - even though our express agreement in writing included the cost of mailing. Unbelievable. I didn't pay 50% upfront and 50% later as it's not a big amount and I thought for once it would be nice to put some faith in people. Ho ho. Also, his office has a website and looks like a decent outfit.

I wonder whether this kind of thing is normal when dealing with lawyers in Indonesia? A request for additional payment by way of baksheesh...?

 

[Bad_azz]

As far as I can recall, the instruction to marry again in the UK came from the British embassy. I assure you we wouldn't have done if it wasn't necessary at the time. Perhaps the rules have changed since.

Anyway, an update on this. I paid 5 million to a lawyer in Indonesia to track down the divorce certificate and mail the original to me, which is a little bit cheaper than hauling myself over there and slogging around the streets. Getting hold of the certificate from the KUA office, once he had found the right place, was apparently very easy and straightforward - he has shown me a pdf copy by email.

However, now he is demanding another million just to mail the original (which I need) because he says he can't afford the postage after a run of bad luck(!) - even though our express agreement in writing included the cost of mailing. Unbelievable. I didn't pay 50% upfront and 50% later as it's not a big amount and I thought for once it would be nice to put some faith in people. Ho ho. Also, his office has a website and looks like a decent outfit.

I wonder whether this kind of thing is normal when dealing with lawyers in Indonesia? A request for additional payment by way of baksheesh...?

Posting documents to the UK is incredibly expensive- I once sent something with DHL & I had to pay over 40 quid in postage- but it was a guaranteed & time sensitive (express) delivery about 4 years ago.

I would be inclined to bite down on my ire as he has the document and you need it- and just send him the cash but insist on proof of postage & tracking number ASAP

 

[Helpful Herbert]

That's actually pretty cheap, there are lawyers here that would charge multiples of that.

 

[Mr Derek]

DHL are quoting about 500,000 to Thailand. I was expecting people to say 'don't pay it!' because if even a lawyer won't stick to a contract then nothing is sacred.

Well, I'll try telling him to send it first and show me the receipt and tracking number, then I will pay it. Goes against my principles, but I want to get shut of this whole wretched business.

 

[Samoerai]

DHL are quoting about 500,000 to Thailand. I was expecting people to say 'don't pay it!' because if even a lawyer won't stick to a contract then nothing is sacred.

Well, I'll try telling him to send it first and show me the receipt and tracking number, then I will pay it. Goes against my principles, but I want to get shut of this whole wretched business.

DHL is expensive ... around 60 euros from the Netherlands to Indonesia for just 1 letter. Arrives 3 or 4 days later.

 

[Shadrach]

DHL is expensive ... around 60 euros from the Netherlands to Indonesia for just 1 letter. Arrives 3 or 4 days later.

This is an example of outright Highway robbery! 60 Euro's for one letter? I would them to explain why one single letter should cost this much? You can fit a lot of letters on an airplane. It would funny to see the math of figuring out how many letters, on a single flight and multiple the cost at 60 Euro's for one letter. It must be in the millions of Euro's for this cost. Someone sure is making some profit!

 

[centurion]

Come on, practically everybody knows that period is 4 months in Islamic law. But you made a generic remark (”the law says”) which makes it very obvious -again- you don’t get the nuances here in this society and you did not specify what ‘your friend’ is or said.

Two years,not four months.

 

[centurion]

I talked to a friend about this the other day. It appears a wife may divorce a husband legally if he has abandoned her for whatever length of time the law says.
Assuming that is correct, that takes care of the Indonesian side.
I have no idea about the situation he faces under UK law. If she has remarried, a divorce for adultery?

Two years is the term, if separated more than that, without spouse approval.

 

[centurion]

As far as I can recall, the instruction to marry again in the UK came from the British embassy. I assure you we wouldn't have done if it wasn't necessary at the time. Perhaps the rules have changed since.

Anyway, an update on this. I paid 5 million to a lawyer in Indonesia to track down the divorce certificate and mail the original to me, which is a little bit cheaper than hauling myself over there and slogging around the streets. Getting hold of the certificate from the KUA office, once he had found the right place, was apparently very easy and straightforward - he has shown me a pdf copy by email.

However, now he is demanding another million just to mail the original (which I need) because he says he can't afford the postage after a run of bad luck(!) - even though our express agreement in writing included the cost of mailing. Unbelievable. I didn't pay 50% upfront and 50% later as it's not a big amount and I thought for once it would be nice to put some faith in people. Ho ho. Also, his office has a website and looks like a decent outfit.

I wonder whether this kind of thing is normal when dealing with lawyers in Indonesia? A request for additional payment by way of baksheesh...?

Consider yourself lucky finding the document.

Maybe your wife run away from you because of that attitude.

 

[gemima]

DHL are quoting about 500,000 to Thailand. I was expecting people to say 'don't pay it!' because if even a lawyer won't stick to a contract then nothing is sacred.

Well, I'll try telling him to send it first and show me the receipt and tracking number, then I will pay it. Goes against my principles, but I want to get shut of this whole wretched business.

You got off cheaply as far as I can see - just pay the extra! It's such a small amount for something that was seemingly so difficult to track down. Look on it as a thank you tip for the lawyer.

 

[Bad_azz]

DHL are quoting about 500,000 to Thailand. I was expecting people to say 'don't pay it!' because if even a lawyer won't stick to a contract then nothing is sacred.

Well, I'll try telling him to send it first and show me the receipt and tracking number, then I will pay it. Goes against my principles, but I want to get shut of this whole wretched business.

It is entirely possible that the lawyer has not had to post anything that needs tracking and insuring, such as legal documents, to the UK before. Therefore, they were very likely shocked (as we all are) at the insane prices involved.

 

[Hawk256]

It is entirely possible that the lawyer has not had to post anything that needs tracking and insuring, such as legal documents, to the UK before. Therefore, they were very likely shocked (as we all are) at the insane prices involved.

I too would give him some leeway in this situation. He likely doesn't do much business with this requirement. All in all, I say the OP got off rather cheap even with the unexpected charge. Seems like it was done rather quickly as well.

 

[Mr Derek]

The EMS postage to Thailand was 203,000 Rp.
All he had to do was send an assistant to the KUA office in the same town with power of attorney to pick up the certificate. Easy money. Huge profit margin on 5 million. If I had known it was that simple I would have gone there and picked it up myself for about the same cost and saved four weeks. Anyway, if anyone ever has any dealings with Indonesian lawyers, I recommend specifying 'no additional fees' and not paying the whole fee upfront.

Well, that concludes my 34-year connection to Indonesia, which despite my initial idealism, turned out to be a net negative.

 

[jstar]

Two years,not four months.

You realize it was a tongue in cheek remark? Nobody really knows…

btw, as far as I know, it it very debatable even in the religious court but it can be assumed to be 6 months:

3. SEMA NOMOR 1 TAHUN 2022

1. Hukum Perkawinan

b. Dalam upaya mempertahankan suatu perkawinan dan memenuhi prinsip mempersukar perceraian maka

1. Perkara perceraian dengan alasan suami / istri tidak melaksanakan kewajiban nafkah lahir dan/atau batin, hanya dapat dikabulkan jika terbukti suami/istri tidak melaksanakan kewajibannya setelah minimal 12 (dua belas) bulan; ata

2. Perkara perceraian dengan alasan perselisihan dan pertengkaran yang terus menerus dapat dikabulkan jika terbukti suami/ istri berselisih dan bertengkar terus menerus atau telah berpisah tempat tinggal selamaminimal 6 (enam) bulan.

 

[ilovered]

Sorry to just butt in. Had to change computer,moving house, etc.

In case of muslim marriage in Indonesia, this happened to one of my sisters ya back in early 2000 though I doubt anything change now. Anyway, you can apply for divorce yourself without her consent.
Get a lawyer in Indonesia, apply it in the religious court, as you got married in KUA (green book etc). They will send her summon to her last known address. if they send it 3 times and no answer, the court will automatically grant you the divorce.

My sister's hubby ran away (local guy though) and that was how she got her divorce.
in your case, it's even stronger because you're the husband. Men has stronger position in the moslem marriage law, i heard.

 

[jstar]

This is an interesting case:

The rather famous Andre Taulany requested a divorce from his wife at (religious) court. After 19 years of marriage and they have three children. Andre argued there was constant fighting and bickering.

It was refused.

The spokesperson: “The panel of judges rejected the petitioner's request. The judge's assembly argues that the premises of disputes and constant quarrels are not proven,"

So it seems there were witnesses (in the family) claiming they did not fight at all.

The judges also considered that Andre and Erin's problem was only related to the lack of communication. This reason is considered not to meet the provisions set out in the law.

Andre's side can still appeal until October 4, 2024. If the appeal is not filed, Andre and Rien Taulany will still be legally married.

All that makes you wonder how you can divorce someone ‘in secret’…