Twitter Wars: Bali vs. Kristen Gray

[snpark]

I've yet to meet any digital nomad in Indonesia who's making so much that they could afford anything more than a $400 kos

 

[R Cameron]

My reading of pasal 75 of U.U. No. 6 Tahun 2011 is that there is no prison time, just deportation. Basically it gives immigration any reason they justify to kick out a foreigner, they have the power to do so. Did anyone else come to this interpretation?

They also charged her under Pasal 122, intentional wrongful use of visa, which says up to 5 years in jail and 500jt fine.

 

[Ruserious]

Theres another storm brewing. Seems Indonesians got a taste for going after the Bali "expats" and are now focusing on a so called health influencer who seems to be an anti-masker. I think this is a trend that may continue for a while.

 

[gemima]

Theres another storm brewing. Seems Indonesians got a taste for going after the Bali "expats" and are now focusing on a so called health influencer who seems to be an anti-masker. I think this is a trend that may continue for a while.

As much as I respect this is their country, and I agree that visitors should respect the laws I feel the anger is misplaced.
The immigration knows exactly what's going on in Bali (and other digital nomad areas) and they need to do their job better.
There are so many things happening in Indonesia to get passionately angry about (environmental destruction, corruption etc.) but it seems like being angry at some foreigners is more appealing right now to many.

 

[Balifrog]

but it seems like being angry at some foreigners is more appealing right now to many.

Standard reaction in time of crisis.... Blame the outsiders, the foreigners, a minority, etc....

Happens everywhere, and sure in the West. Brexit in UK clearly turned against immigrants, Trump's policy being just 2 examples. Blaming Jews is another one.

Anybody who has lived many years in other countries knows that, and knows to keep a low profile.

Not saying it's right, it is simply a fact.

 

[scouser59]

I've yet to meet any digital nomad in Indonesia who's making so much that they could afford anything more than a $400 kos

I dont know any D, nomads personally ,but in south bali particularly the bukit and canggu area there are many 20/30 somethings populating the fancy shmancy restaurants and bars , i dont know what they are doing for money ,but they are not short .

 

[jukung11]

It seems like it is more a problem of cost and noncompliance than anything else for these "influencers". There has always been a film/photography visa for individuals and journalists that intend to profit off of filming in Indonesia. Does anyone remember when those models were deported out of Bali for a photography shoot when they entered on a tourist visa? Just because the "influencers" are distributing the content through a new channel does not change that it is still essentially the same action. My suspicion is that a small amount of enforcement would serve as strong deterrence for "influencers" to spend the few extra IDR and comply with the law or not film at all.


Also, I don't think most digital nomads and long term backpackers are particularly profitable to Indonesia. The government complains about Chinese tourists being spendthrift and not highly profitable. Those tourists will still spend more in a week than most digital nomads will in a month. Most tourism figures focus on the spend per trip and the spend per day. The majority of tourists spend over $150 per day in Indonesia. If these long term residents are living like the poorer citizens in Indonesia without paying for the taxes that fund the infrastructure, they might not be economically profitable at all for Indonesia.

 

[snpark]

Most of the crowd big spenders in Canggu are Russians laundering money. Or are just wealthy.

Most of the digital nomads are in coffee shops kidding themselves they are happy and better off here hence they only ever comment on how much better their lifestyle is that their rent is $400 a month not $1400

DN's will be in Forge scoffing 1000 rupiah chicken wing buckets promos

Canggu wealthy people will be at the day clubs popping bottles etc

DN's do yoga. It's cheaper
Russians do F45 it's more visual

 

[Nimbus]

I think a small percentage of digital nomads are freelance programmers and stock daytraders. These folks make decent money and can afford to live leisurely in most developing countries.

 

[Balifrog]

I think a small percentage of digital nomads are freelance programmers and stock daytraders. These folks make decent money and can afford to live leisurely in most developing countries.

But as you said, they are only a small minority....

And could live anywhere.

 

[Nimbus]

But as you said, they are only a small minority....

And could live anywhere.

Right, but I think there are more of them than Russian oligarchs.

 

[snpark]

Well as "she" said you only need $400 to be an oligarch in Bali lol

If you are making $5,000 a month in bali and single you could enjoy a decent lifestyle

Rent $400
Save $600
Alcohol $4000
Visa $35 on arrival from 2018 still

 

[scouser59]

Right, but I think there are more of them than Russian oligarchs.

The "ruskys" for sure are the new ausies , some live in the smaller houses but the majority live in "monster" villas ,its a mystery to me how they get their "gelt" . I suspect a few are doing "dodgy" things online , but they aint short of money .

 

[Balilongtime]

I'm a bit sympathetic towards them. I can imagine if you are living in Bali surrounded by digital nomads it's easy to lull yourself into thinking the visa situation is legal (when it clearly is not) and feel like you are giving back to the local community (when you aren't contributing income taxes/ paying for a proper visa). They sure had their bubble burst.
I wonder will they get blacklisted? Or will the agent arranging their visa get in trouble?

We've had the digital nomads chat here before- I really think there needs to be some sort of special visa for people like that.

She is currently in imigrasi detention and awaiting the next suitable deportation method out of the country

 

[ChrisTex]

So this story appeared on Bored Pandas on Facebook. ,Granted there were over 1k comments so I didn't read all of them, but from the comments I did read, people generally agree with her punishment.

In the article though it was interesting that members of the LGBTQ community were pissed off and said their lives will be made even harder now thanks to Gray mentioning their community.

 

[Nimbus]

So this story appeared on Bored Pandas on Facebook. ,Granted there were over 1k comments so I didn't read all of them, but from the comments I did read, people generally agree with her punishment.

In the article though it was interesting that members of the LGBTQ community were pissed off and said their lives will be made even harder now thanks to Gray mentioning their community.

I can imagine. If there is a locality in Indonesia that’s LGBTQ-friendly, tell only your LGBTQ friends then shut. the. f. up.

She was literally selling them out, all for her $30 ebook.

 

[nd_eric_77]

I can imagine. If there is a locality in Indonesia that’s LGBTQ-friendly, tell only your LGBTQ friends then shut. the. f. up.

She was literally selling them out, all for her $30 ebook.

Part of the problem is the naive American tendency to assume that the rest of the world has the same ideals / principles that the US has. Two examples:

• "Free Speech" (at least free from government interference)... Americans assume that they will not face government consequences for things they say online, which is mostly true... in the United States.
• Totally different topic, but most Americans assume that "birthright citizenship" is a universal standard; they seem unaware that the US is the exception rather than the rule in having absolute birthright citizenship.

Those are two examples from the top of my head; I assume that there are many others.

 

[gemima]

I can imagine. If there is a locality in Indonesia that’s LGBTQ-friendly, tell only your LGBTQ friends then shut. the. f. up.

She was literally selling them out, all for her $30 ebook.

And there is a HUGE difference between acceptance of "rich" foreigner LGBTQ folks and local LGBTQ folk. I think Gray misinterpreted the acceptance she received was influenced by her apparent status level.

 

[snpark]

Part of the problem is the naive American tendency to assume that the rest of the world has the same ideals / principles that the US has. Two examples:

• "Free Speech" (at least free from government interference)... Americans assume that they will not face government consequences for things they say online, which is mostly true... in the United States.
• Totally different topic, but most Americans assume that "birthright citizenship" is a universal standard; they seem unaware that the US is the exception rather than the rule in having absolute birthright citizenship.

Those are two examples from the top of my head; I assume that there are many others.

White privilege

 

[gemima]

Part of the problem is the naive American tendency to assume that the rest of the world has the same ideals / principles that the US has. Two examples:

• "Free Speech" (at least free from government interference)... Americans assume that they will not face government consequences for things they say online, which is mostly true... in the United States.
• Totally different topic, but most Americans assume that "birthright citizenship" is a universal standard; they seem unaware that the US is the exception rather than the rule in having absolute birthright citizenship.

Those are two examples from the top of my head; I assume that there are many others.

I've just read a great book - "The Jakarta Method" which is FULL of examples of this. Goes into detail about US interference in Indonesia (and a few other countries), exporting their ideals. Wreaking havoc.