The "Bule" Discussion

[atlantis]

You suck as an admin.

Stfu, seriously. I don’t care if you have the power to kick me out. When COVID and other restrictions allow us to have reasonable discussions I’ll be back.

As of now, you, as as as admin are taking sides.
You’re a bule. Deal with it. The rest of us will
contend with being Expats. Corny ass mf

I have pasted you a bunch of links to various medias in bahasa Indonesia all using the terms bule+ Nigeria/Afrika/Jepang/India...etc showing you that bule is not anymore a white monopoly in the modern Indonesian language.
A quick google would bring you much more and so would do a browsing of comments left by (mostly) young Indonesian on sosmed publishing articles involving foreigners from Africa, India, Japan...etc. Many of these young Indonesian would use the locution bule nigeria, bule afrika...etc It simply shows that bahasa Indonesia, as any language in the world, is alive and change. The use and understanding of the word bule is changing, has changed.

Medias are a major drive in language change and the links I pasted shows it. If papers and TV uses a term, giving him a different meaning that it once had it will be repeated and adopted. I think it should be encouraged rather than denied in the case of "bule"

20+ years ago when I first arrive I never heard of bule nigeria or any Bule+(add any nation or continent other than the "western" one). Today it isn't rare that I hear or read it in casual conversation or in medias. As much as it may sound weird or strange to anyone, it is the way bahasa is moving/has moved and I predict that in 10 or 15 years from now the word "bule only", systematically without addition of an Asian or African country, will be used to qualify any foreigner, including non white one.

Restricting the word bule to a racial connotation is simply wrong as of today. The point is that if "bule" generally means "white/caucasian" in the mind of many Indonesian, it isn't exclusively white skin people who are labelled bule anymore.
Another thing you could do to understand it is to ask to any Indonesian if Obama, Rihanna, Tiger Woods...etc are bule . Of course they are and they won't tell you they aren't. Yet they don't have the physical features of Caucasians.

I didn't check but I wouldn't be surprised that all the articles I pasted in a previous post are all less than 5 years old which highlight the fact that it is a new trend in the Indonesian language.

Personally I don't give a toss if anyone consider I am a bule. I definitely don't consider me as an expat. Most Indonesian wouldn't understand what "expat" means anyway. I am a proud immigrant, like my grandfather was 85 years ago moving from the Balkans to France. because it is the word which by far best qualifies what I am. I came here 21 years ago, took residence, have always been economically active, recognize Indonesia as my nation pof adoption and don't even remotely consider leaving. I have decided to build a family and life in this country. So what else would I be either than an immigrant? Calling me an expatriate would wrongly re-attach me to my native nation while I haven't even gone there for the past ten years and have spent more time in my life here than there.

The only reason I chimed in the thread was the fact that one of your post had received reports. As such, as a mod I have to take side and it's what I did. I am surprised that you are surprised that Mods take side. They do and in fact you may be surprise to hear that it is routine job for mods.


Moderation Note: please read it attentively @Dharma Police
Now on the topic of moderation I kindly warn you not to tell me (or anyone on this board) to shut the fuck up (stfu) or to threaten anyone, be it lightly or in a veiled manner, or telling him/her he's a piece of shit (POS). It won't do any good to your membership here and I won't kindly ask again. Albeit English language, like Indonesian, is evolving, these locutions are not yet part of the common language we want to promote in this forum.

 

[fastpitch17]

My wife is half Indian, half Indinesian. Beautiful cinnamon toned skin and is always called bule by people we encounter. Never bule india, just bule. Most are pretty surprised when they learn she is half Indonesian and born in Indonesia.

 

[atlantis]

My wife is half Indian, half Indinesian. Beautiful cinnamon toned skin and is always called bule by people we encounter. Never bule india, just bule. Most are pretty surprised when they learn she is half Indonesian and born in Indonesia.

Exactly.
In most place in Indonesia, for many people of the street, color of the skin doesn't necessarily define you anymore as being a bule. Perception of you being a foreigner, even if you are brown skin, would qualify you to enter the "bule only" category. If asked "what a bule is?" most will spontaneously answer that it is a caucasian/white. Yet many would call your wife, Arabs, Indians...etc "bule", using the word as if they would use the word "orang asing".

Your wife is one example but so does Kristen Gray the bule who got deported not long ago from Bali as probably most here remember. She wasn't white skin and thousands of contents in sosmed written by Indonesian folks were referring her as a bule, and bule only, with sometimes the unneeded precision that she was kulit hitam. This despite her heritage, skin complexion, hairs...etc. Some comment were disagreeing at the fact she was labelled "bule", but they were a minority compared to the number of posts re-using the term "bule" to qualify her.

So really people should give us a break and re-think that silly "bule" is white only or Caucasian only discourse or that ""bule" is slang term for Caucasian people because wiki says so. The problem is that the reality of the spoken and written language trumps it. It's time to wake up, smell the coffee and open the eyes and ears on what is said by people of the land. It was true decades ago, it isn't anymore and they have to suck it up if they don't like it. Sometimes funnily enough you would ask an Indonesian what bule means and they would tell you that in their mind it is a white male/female, then minutes after the very same people would call Kristen Gray, Obama, Rihanna...etc a... bule. This is not an Indonesian only phenomena, it exists I think in every language. If you ask to french the signification of a word s/he may answer you in a different way s/he actually uses the said word every day, without even realizing it.

We don't have much arabs and indians here in Manado, but the little we have are just "bule" regardless of the fact they obviously come from the Indian subcontinent or Middle East and are not Caucasian. Same applies for all afro american and latinos, they are included in the "bule only" group while they may not have been called this way 2 decades ago.

 

[centurion]

If you google "bule" on Indonesian google images only white people come out as result. That is should be the prevailing meaning in contemporary language, as it is done by the google algorithm.

If you google "bule+sonething else" that another group of people comes out.

 

[Balifrog]

Well, well, this useless semantic debate is far from the original topic which was pretty interesting IMHO ...

 

[Dharma Police]

@atlantis

I will condede to the term starting to have broader usage. I mean it is progress, and I'm all for that. That was a very well-written support of your argument.

 

[atlantis]

Kudos to you for having the intellectual honesty to admit it and reconsider your opinion. Apparently not all are keen to do it, but I can live with that. After all, everything is in the thread for people to make their mind.

 

[Dharma Police]

@atlantis

I will try to be less crude in my rebuttals, but that's the thing. I'm responding to people using soft language to insult and berate me, and I feel that you don't read back in the thread to see the seed of my discontent. As far as this warning quoted below, where was the level-headed mod when a liquor dealer was calling long-time members trolls and liars for pointing out their poor selection of beers, at higher prices? I recall you defending him / her for calling me a liar, simply because with my resources I can get liquor delivered faster, while they offered a booking service that takes 24 hours, or longer. Come on, they were clearly being unprofessional, and becoming defensive over unethical business practices / spam that's trying to hustle members who'd order alcohol.

Now, this debate concerning the term "bule". A person drew first blood by calling me a bule Indonesian. That's offensive. They're making assumptions about me that's not only untrue, but using a condescending tone. Did you publicly warn them not to insult people? No, you did not. You went straight to the person responding to such bigotry - me. You tend to jump into debates, and I get it, you have to stop the fire before it gets too heated as as moderator, but you take sides - and oftentimes it's arbitrary, and unjust.

Moderation Note: please read it attentively @Dharma Police
Now on the topic of moderation I kindly warn you not to tell me (or anyone on this board) to shut the fuck up (stfu) or to threaten anyone, be it lightly or in a veiled manner, or telling him/her he's a piece of shit (POS). It won't do any good to your membership here and I won't kindly ask again. Albeit English language, like Indonesian, is evolving, these locutions are not yet part of the common language we want to promote in this forum.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

I don't think the word bule is offensive, and I'm pretty sure the word Indonesia is not offensive. But if there can be bule Amerika, bule Nigeria and bule Jepang, why not bule Indonesia? Forum members who have obtained Indonesian citizenship such as badazz could perhaps correctly be referred to as Bule Indonesia, in a completely non-offensive way. Even Indonesians who have spent many years abroad could be included in this category.

Also I am not really offended if someone calls me a post office.

 

[MamangDudul]

I don't want to add more fire to the conversation but all these big explanations about what is a bule to MOST Indonesian people is kinda hilarious.
My family has a lot of mixed people and no one is called a bule except me and my daughter, she is mixed Chinese and German so pretty white and so far only has soft asian features.
To most people in Indonesia a bule is a white/Caucasian looking person, everything else would just be political correctness that has not much to do with daily life.

 

[atlantis]

A person drew first blood by calling me a bule Indonesian. That's offensive.

I am afraid you will have hard time to convince the moderation team that the term "bule Indonesia" is offensive but we are open to change our mind. I invite you to report the post you feel offended you/was insulting you along with a full explanation of why you believe it is offensive. We will review your explanation and discuss it.
FTR, the mod team is composed by 6 persons (5 active), native Indonesian, mixed blood and fully foreigner of different background, culture and age .

 

[atlantis]

I am afraid you will have hard time to convince the moderation team that the term "bule Indonesia" is offensive but we are open to change our mind. I invite you to report the post you feel offended you/was insulting you along with a full explanation of why you believe it is offensive. We will review your explanation and discuss it.
FTR, the mod team is composed by 6 persons (5 active), native Indonesian, mixed blood and fully foreigner of different background, culture and age .

What I try to tell you here is that ANY moderation is the result of a collective discussion, even though it may be presented by only 1 mod. No moderation/mod note, be they in this thread or in any past moderation, is the reflect of the sole opinion of a mod, but is always the result of a consensus between the moderation team discussions

 

[Dharma Police]

I am afraid you will have hard time to convince the moderation team that the term "bule Indonesia" is offensive but we are open to change our mind. I invite you to report the post you feel offended you/was insulting you along with a full explanation of why you believe it is offensive. We will review your explanation and discuss it.
FTR, the mod team is composed by 6 persons (5 active), native Indonesian, mixed blood and fully foreigner of different background, culture and age .

Nope. I don't report people. Never have. I address them myself, and if I come off a little brash, so be it.

 

[Dharma Police]

@atlantis

Don't weasel your way out of my complaint about YOU as a moderator. Don't turn around and look for backup from your mod team. Obviously they will feel obligated to support your claim. Why did you defend a spammer who called longtime members trolls and liars, when said spammer came on here offering alcohol at higher prices, at poorer services?

 

[Dharma Police]

I don't want to add more fire to the conversation but all these big explanations about what is a bule to MOST Indonesian people is kinda hilarious.
My family has a lot of mixed people and no one is called a bule except me and my daughter, she is mixed Chinese and German so pretty white and so far only has soft asian features.
To most people in Indonesia a bule is a white/Caucasian looking person, everything else would just be political correctness that has not much to do with daily life.

Mic drop.

 

[ChrisTex]

Ok gaijin.

 

[atlantis]

Nope. I don't report people. Never have. I address them myself, and if I come off a little brash, so be it.

@atlantis

Don't weasel your way out of my complaint about YOU as a moderator. Don't turn around and look for backup from your mod team. Obviously they will feel obligated to support your claim. Why did you defend a spammer who called longtime members trolls and liars, when said spammer came on here offering alcohol at higher prices, at poorer services?

Jeez... Time for you to get a life Dharna police.

For the sake of being transparent to the board;

liquor delivered

Dear friends, in this pandemic situation alot of customers are changing their purchase behavior to online and if you're having a hard time looking for alcohol or even don't have the time to visit your local bottleshop please do check our shop through this website. www.aquavitae.club (just...

www.expatindo.org

This is the link for the forum users to better understand your complaint of having been allegedly unfairly moderated.
.
and this is where my posts start in the thread:

liquor delivered

I'm so confused by this sentence there are locals that spent 5 years studying in the US or Australia or somewhere

www.expatindo.org

I think the board members can judge by themselves. Another drastically unfair and harsh moderation from the moderation team is about to be unfolded. Please before clicking on the links make sure kids are asleep and not potentially reading the board.

 

[ChrisTex]

I forgot about that thread. Oh and I checked the website, the beer still just has piss.

 

[dafluff]

Moderation Note:

1. The Moderation Team does not consider the usage of the word "bule" or "bule" + "nationality", as it has been used in this thread offensive at all. As such, it remains overwhelmingly likely that the word will continue to be used in these forums. If this is a problem for you or anyone else, you'd just have to deal with it.

2. Being upset over a comment from 6+ months ago, and dragging it into a thread now is bizarre.

3. Insulting a forum admin/moderator, and continuing to do so after having been warned is cause enough to get a user permanently banned from many other corners of the internet.

The Moderation Team has decided that user @Dharma Police will be restricted from using this forum for 30 days. After that time, Dharma Police is welcome to post again, provided that he can moderate his behavior.

Additionally, the off-topic posts in the original thread have been moved to a separate thread (this one). The original thread can be found here: link

Dafluff
For the Moderation Team.

PS: Speaking for myself, @atlantis is by far the most knowledgeable and conscientious member of the team. He has been an incredible asset to this forum, and in fact, the entire Expat community in Indonesia. All done voluntarily and on his own time. The Moderation team as a whole and the existence of this forum is a volunteer effort. It is personally upsetting for me to see a member of the team get abused on this platform, and I take a very dim view of that.

 

[fastpitch17]

So, I guess I can keep referring to myself as bule here and in the general public.