Sorry Kids in America!

Repeating what I said above in the post you quoted : "I lived in my country and in Indonesia during dictatorship and democracy" .
In my country I lived more than 20 years under a dictatorship (only 3 years of dictatorship in Indonesia) .

I didn't say that dictators don't do bad decisions , did I ?

Considering we are all (imperfect) humans , I assume that dictators , communists , elected presidents , democrats , ... , all do good and bad things .
There are of course degrees of dictatorship just as not all 'free' societies enjoy the same freedoms. The Khmer Rouge was awful while LKY and his successors in Singapore less so.
In my experience, Indonesia pre-1998 was overall effectively less oppressive than Singapore and much less oppressive than say Myanmar. The PRC's closer to Myanmar than it is to Singapore on the dictatorship spectrum.
 
There are of course degrees of dictatorship just as not all 'free' societies enjoy the same freedoms. The Khmer Rouge was awful while LKY and his successors in Singapore less so.
In my experience, Indonesia pre-1998 was overall effectively less oppressive than Singapore and much less oppressive than say Myanmar. The PRC's closer to Myanmar than it is to Singapore on the dictatorship spectrum.
I'm curious what people that lived through the time when Suharto first took control of Indonesia, have to say about those times? The little I heard, was there was a huge sweep of people who were in the Communist party. Many just vanished or were imprisoned. Was it a land grab, due to only males being able to own land? What happened to all the widows?
Any comments?
 
Hundred of thousands of legal and illegal immigrants are trying to enter to US an EU, and none, or very little are trying to illegaly or legally immigrate to China, Iran or Russia. On the opposite, many citizens are trying to run away from these countries. That would be a sufficient litmus test.
I can't say much about Russia as I have very limited about that country, but I know plenty of people are moving to China legally. Their business sectors are actively drawing expertise from other countries, and those experts want to go because of high salaries and good working conditions.
What you appear to be saying is that China's immigration controls are better than those in the US, but that seems to be a bad thing in your mind.
Perhaps the EU, UK, and US border control agencies could train in China to improve their efficiency.
 
The Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward come to mind, as well as colonization of Tebet, Xinjiang, and the South China Sea.
We as individuals can identify and praise or condemn good and evil as appropriate.
I don't think that trade is the reason that the US is calling China evil. After all, China's eminence in manufacturing emerged in coordination with and the agreement of US and other Western countries' leadership.
I think the cultural revolution was Mao trying to force communist ideas when they were fading. I would suggest that is outdated as an argument because both Mao and his ideas are long gone.

The great leap was Mao again. In his haste to change China, he forgot the think out a decent plan and killed a large number of people because of it. As with the above, it's ancient history that simply doesn't apply to modern China.

Tibet is an odd one. It was conquered by the Chinese in 1700 and something, then got an unrecognised independence after the British colonialist left, then taken over again by China.
I have no idea what the people of Tibet want as the propaganda from both sides I read always ignores them in favour of geopolitics.

This is why I don't like to get into political arguments - people tend to think on party lines rather than what is actually good for the people they control.

That brings us to your last line. It's all about trade. China has done wonders over the last 20 some years. They've gone from an especially nasty and inept communist dictatorship to an absolute capitalist system. Albeit as a one party, some would say one man, system.
They were forward thinking in so much as they saw emerging technologies and cornered the market in the lot. They now produce everything the modern world craves, and they do it at amazingly cheap prices nobody can hope to match.
The US has finally woken up to this, but they were way too late. Their somewhat clumsy attempts to stem the flow are too little, too late, and involves absolutely no attempt to catch up. Instead they try to tax and bully their way out of a situation of their own making.

Don't take this as anti-America or pro-China. Neither is the case. It's just an opinion as to what is going on around us.
 
I think the cultural revolution was Mao trying to force communist ideas when they were fading. I would suggest that is outdated as an argument because both Mao and his ideas are long gone.

The great leap was Mao again. In his haste to change China, he forgot the think out a decent plan and killed a large number of people because of it. As with the above, it's ancient history that simply doesn't apply to modern China.

Tibet is an odd one. It was conquered by the Chinese in 1700 and something, then got an unrecognised independence after the British colonialist left, then taken over again by China.
I have no idea what the people of Tibet want as the propaganda from both sides I read always ignores them in favour of geopolitics.

This is why I don't like to get into political arguments - people tend to think on party lines rather than what is actually good for the people they control.

That brings us to your last line. It's all about trade. China has done wonders over the last 20 some years. They've gone from an especially nasty and inept communist dictatorship to an absolute capitalist system. Albeit as a one party, some would say one man, system.
They were forward thinking in so much as they saw emerging technologies and cornered the market in the lot. They now produce everything the modern world craves, and they do it at amazingly cheap prices nobody can hope to match.
The US has finally woken up to this, but they were way too late. Their somewhat clumsy attempts to stem the flow are too little, too late, and involves absolutely no attempt to catch up. Instead they try to tax and bully their way out of a situation of their own making.

Don't take this as anti-America or pro-China. Neither is the case. It's just an opinion as to what is going on around us.
You are right about the new China kicking butt with technology. I've always heard that China is like a sleeping dragon. They stay out of world politics, and just buy their way, into having a say in other countries. For instance, the new airport on North Bali, and the new capital on Kalimantan. They own much of Vancouver B.C., New York, US, Brazil, Africa nations. They are smart in just quietly buying their way, to get what they want.
You don't hear of them getting involved in Ukraine, The Israel/ Palestinian crisis, etc. as for Tibet, from what I heard, the Chinese takeover of Tibet, was pretty cruel. They came in, destroyed many monasteries, and killed many monks, and forced the Dalai Lama to flee over the mountains to India.
I heard that their control over Tibet is very harsh now. No one is allowed to have photos of the Dalai Lama, and they are slowly integrating into the culture by mixed marriages, and forcing the Chinese language to be spoken. This sounds like forced domination to me.
What T-rump is going to do by raising tariffs on imports is only going to hurt the American consumers. The poor stupid people that voted him in again, are going to feel the pain, when they have to pay for These actions! 😿
 
I'm curious what people that lived through the time when Suharto first took control of Indonesia, have to say about those times? The little I heard, was there was a huge sweep of people who were in the Communist party. Many just vanished or were imprisoned. Was it a land grab, due to only males being able to own land? What happened to all the widows?
Any comments?
Others may be able to advise. But 1965 was well before my earliest arrival in Indonesia.
 
I'm curious what people that lived through the time when Suharto first took control of Indonesia, have to say about those times? The little I heard, was there was a huge sweep of people who were in the Communist party...
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66
Title : Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66

Large-scale killings and civil unrest primarily targeting members and supposed sympathizers of the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI) were carried out in Indonesia from 1965 to 1966. Other affected groups included alleged communist sympathisers, Gerwani women, trade unionists, ethnic Javanese Abangan, ethnic Chinese, atheists, so-called "unbelievers", and alleged leftists in general. According to the most widely published estimates at least 500,000 to 1 million people were killed, with some estimates going as high as 2 to 3 million...

The killings are skipped over in most Indonesian history textbooks .. as well as receiving little international attention...

A top-secret CIA report from 1968 stated that the massacres "rank as one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century, along with the Soviet purges of the 1930s, the Nazi mass murders during the Second World War, and the Maoist bloodbath of the early 1950s". It has been referred to as the "biggest US-backed genocide" as a result of US support...

Global reaction
To Western governments, the killings and purges were seen as victory over communism ... News of the massacre was carefully controlled by Western intelligence agencies. Journalists, prevented from entering Indonesia,... A headline in U.S. News & World Report read: "Indonesia: Hope... where there was once none"...

International People's Tribunal 1965
In November 2015, the International People's Tribunal on 1965 Crimes Against Humanity in Indonesia, presided over by 7 international judges, was held in The Hague, Netherlands ... In July 2016, chief judge Zak Yacoob publicly read the tribunal's findings, which called the state of Indonesia directly responsible for the events and guilty of crimes against humanity, blamed Suharto for spreading false propaganda and laying the grounds for the massacres, and concluded that the massacres "intended to annihilate a section of the population and could be categorised as genocide"...
Judge Yacoob stated that "the United States of America, the United Kingdom and Australia were all complicit to differing degrees in the commission of these crimes against humanity". The judges concluded that the U.S. supported the Indonesian military "knowing well that they were embarked upon a programme of mass killings", ... whereas the UK and Australia repeated false propaganda from the Indonesian Army, even after it became "abundantly clear that killings and other crimes against humanity were taking place"...
 
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From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66
Title : Indonesian mass killings of 1965–66

Large-scale killings and civil unrest primarily targeting members and supposed sympathizers of the Communist Party of Indonesia (PKI) were carried out in Indonesia from 1965 to 1966. Other affected groups included alleged communist sympathisers, Gerwani women, trade unionists, ethnic Javanese Abangan, ethnic Chinese, atheists, so-called "unbelievers", and alleged leftists in general. According to the most widely published estimates at least 500,000 to 1 million people were killed, with some estimates going as high as 2 to 3 million...

The killings are skipped over in most Indonesian history textbooks .. as well as receiving little international attention...

A top-secret CIA report from 1968 stated that the massacres "rank as one of the worst mass murders of the 20th century, along with the Soviet purges of the 1930s, the Nazi mass murders during the Second World War, and the Maoist bloodbath of the early 1950s". It has been referred to as the "biggest US-backed genocide" as a result of US support...

Global reaction
To Western governments, the killings and purges were seen as victory over communism ... News of the massacre was carefully controlled by Western intelligence agencies. Journalists, prevented from entering Indonesia,... A headline in U.S. News & World Report read: "Indonesia: Hope... where there was once none"...

International People's Tribunal 1965
In November 2015, the International People's Tribunal on 1965 Crimes Against Humanity in Indonesia, presided over by 7 international judges, was held in The Hague, Netherlands ... In July 2016, chief judge Zak Yacoob publicly read the tribunal's findings, which called the state of Indonesia directly responsible for the events and guilty of crimes against humanity, blamed Suharto for spreading false propaganda and laying the grounds for the massacres, and concluded that the massacres "intended to annihilate a section of the population and could be categorised as genocide"...
Judge Yacoob stated that "the United States of America, the United Kingdom and Australia were all complicit to differing degrees in the commission of these crimes against humanity". The judges concluded that the U.S. supported the Indonesian military "knowing well that they were embarked upon a programme of mass killings", ... whereas the UK and Australia repeated false propaganda from the Indonesian Army, even after it became "abundantly clear that killings and other crimes against humanity were taking place"...
Such a tragedy! From the little I know, wasn't the first president Sukarno seeking assistance from Russia, during his reign as president, wasn't there mass hunger and lack of food? He didn't seek assistance from America. Why? Maybe he felt, America wanted to much control, or influence? So he turned to Russia henceforth started the Communist party?
I'm sorry, but I don't have enough information to comment much about this. If anyone does, please elaborate!

That is an unbelievable amount of people sought out and massacred! Even ethnic groups,Ethnic Chinese, atheists, non- believers in what. A military coup? How sad the US, UK, And Australia, supported this.
And just like schools in America, and Australia, schools here hid the true facts from the people, of the Governments supporting genocide on the people? Shameful!!!
 
I can't say much about Russia as I have very limited about that country, but I know plenty of people are moving to China legally. Their business sectors are actively drawing expertise from other countries, and those experts want to go because of high salaries and good working conditions.
What you appear to be saying is that China's immigration controls are better than those in the US, but that seems to be a bad thing in your mind.
Perhaps the EU, UK, and US border control agencies could train in China to improve their efficiency.
How many (planty of) peope are moving to China? Numbers of foreigners in China is steadily decreasing and permanent residents are on 12.000 mark.
 
Is that China or Elon Musk?
If you condemn one, you have to condemn others with the same goals.
This is called a strawman argument.
China does not have goals, it reached effectivelly the control of the population for the purpose of CCP staying in power.
Elon Musk who came mentioned from nowhere does not control the population trough credit scores and face recognition programs, nor imprisons people in re-education camps. The one who thinks the present Chinese CCP system is good is either evil or fool, or useful idiot.
 
Post WW11 most western democratic governments focused on what was seen as the menace of Communism. The US moved this focus to the level of a kind of holy war against Communism and to that end helped oversee if not directly manage the assassination of democratically elected heads of leftist governments. It also provided weapons and training to right wing militarists in special techniques including interrogation (torture) that enabled people like Pinochet in Chile to see many thousands of "lefitists" tortured and murdered. The newly installed President of Indonesia, Prabowo also trained at Fort Bragg - now named Fort Liberty. There is no secret regarding the direct US involvement in providing lists of leftists druing the purge in Indonesia which saw somewhere between 500,000 and 1,000,000 murders.

Infamously, the socialistic - leftist government of Gough Whitlam in Australia 1972-75 saw Australia turn a blind eye to events in Timor during the Indonesian army invasion. The leftist treasurer and later Prime Minister, Paul Keating developed a personal friendship with Suharto and engaged in a pig farming partnership.

Whatever the personal morality of individuals, once they move into positions of power it seems they they regard their previous prinicpals as a kind of petty morality against the needs of their responsibility in government or what Kissinger called Real Politik.

On the other side of the ledger, post World War11, Communist governments, most notably those of Stalin and Mao, began purges of perceived "enemies of the people" which saw millions abused and disappeared. At the same time engaging in covert and murderous campaigns to destabilize "imperialists".

A major difference in the manner of Imperialist and Communist governments is that in countries such as the US and other wester democracies it remained possible for people to campaign against murder and persecution. Not so in the Communist regimes.

All things considered the world is not a happy place but personally I prefer to live in flawed democratic countries than having to make sure that I must not deviate from the correct line of Communist and now dictatorial countries such as Russia and China.
 
... The one who thinks the present Chinese CCP system is good is either evil or fool, or useful idiot.
I am reading all posts in this thread but didn't notice anybody saying that the Chinese political system is good . However you say it is bad but with insults and no credible argument .

The important thing is the opinion of the Chinese people (see below) .

From https://hbr.org/2021/05/what-the-west-gets-wrong-about-china , May/June 2021
Title : What the West Gets Wrong About China - Three fundamental misconceptions
By : Rana Mitter (professor of the history and politics of modern China at Oxford) and Elsbeth Johnson (senior lecturer at MIT’s Sloan School of Management) .

... Thus July 2020 polling data from the Ash Center at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government revealed 95% satisfaction with the Beijing government among Chinese citizens. Our own experiences on the ground in China confirm this ...`
 
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... Thus July 2020 polling data from the Ash Center at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government revealed 95% satisfaction with the Beijing government among Chinese citizens. Our own experiences on the ground in China confirm this ...`
I suppose citizen's satisfaction with the North Korean's government is around 100%.
Any totalitarian system is inherently bad by definition.
 
... China is a totalitarian mercantilist dictatorship, ...
Let me correct myself : I was wrong when (in my post no.35) I guessed that China , Iran and Russia are not under dictatorship .

What I should say is that "totalitarian mercantilist dictatorship" does not mean much because I also said before : "Considering we are all (imperfect) humans , I assume that dictators , communists , elected presidents , democrats , ... , all do good and bad things" .

I think many people mislead others by using the words "dictatorship" and "communism" as meaning "bad , evil , or similar" , due to the past failed examples . China by being both a communist and dictatorship country proved this is only prejudice .

Comparison :
a) July 2020 polling data from the Ash Center at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government revealed 95% satisfaction with the Beijing government among Chinese citizens.
b) Gallup , July 2024 : Biden’s latest approval rating falls well below his 43% term average and his 37.7% 14th-quarter average rating
 
Let me correct myself : I was wrong when (in my post no.35) I guessed that China , Iran and Russia are not under dictatorship .

What I should say is that "totalitarian mercantilist dictatorship" does not mean much because I also said before : "Considering we are all (imperfect) humans , I assume that dictators , communists , elected presidents , democrats , ... , all do good and bad things" .

I think many people mislead others by using the words "dictatorship" and "communism" as meaning "bad , evil , or similar" , due to the past failed examples . China by being both a communist and dictatorship country proved this is only prejudice .

Comparison :
a) July 2020 polling data from the Ash Center at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government revealed 95% satisfaction with the Beijing government among Chinese citizens.
b) Gallup , July 2024 : Biden’s latest approval rating falls well below his 43% term average and his 37.7% 14th-quarter average rating
Marcus. "Comparison :
a) July 2020 polling data from the Ash Center at Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government revealed 95% satisfaction with the Beijing government among Chinese citizens."
===============
Even political polls conducted in countries where there will be no consequences for the person being polled whatever their answer, are often found to be unreliable as many often vote differently to their publicly stated preferences. Nonetheless your general point is valid in that in a country where not so long ago millions died annually of starvation it is probably true that the majority of people who are not actively involved in politics feel satisfied with the present levels of comparative wealth in China. However for those of us outside that system the Orwellian controls and inability to criticize makes the idea of living there less than attractive.
 
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Any totalitarian system is inherently bad by definition.
Your argument continues to lack credibility .

About the Chinese political system :
From https://hbr.org/2021/05/what-the-west-gets-wrong-about-china , 2021
By : Rana Mitter (professor of the history and politics of modern China at Oxford) and Elsbeth Johnson (senior lecturer at MIT’s Sloan School of Management) .

... at every point since 1949 the Chinese Communist Party—central to the institutions, society, and daily experiences that shape all Chinese people—has stressed the importance of Chinese history and of Marxist-Leninist doctrine...
A Leninist approach to selecting future leaders is also a way the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has maintained its legitimacy, because to many ordinary Chinese, this approach produces relatively competent leaders: They are chosen by the CCP and progress through the system by successfully running first a town and then a province; only after that do they serve on the Politburo. You can’t become a senior leader in China without having proved your worth as a manager. China’s leaders argue that its essentially Leninist rule book makes Chinese politics far less arbitrary or nepotistic than those of many other, notably Western, countries (even though the system has its share of back-scratching and opaque decision-making)...
 
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Your argument continues to lack credibility .

About the Chinese political system :
From https://hbr.org/2021/05/what-the-west-gets-wrong-about-china , 2021
By : Rana Mitter (professor of the history and politics of modern China at Oxford) and Elsbeth Johnson (senior lecturer at MIT’s Sloan School of Management) .

... at every point since 1949 the Chinese Communist Party—central to the institutions, society, and daily experiences that shape all Chinese people—has stressed the importance of Chinese history and of Marxist-Leninist doctrine...
A Leninist approach to selecting future leaders is also a way the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) has maintained its legitimacy, because to many ordinary Chinese, this approach produces relatively competent leaders: They are chosen by the CCP and progress through the system by successfully running first a town and then a province; only after that do they serve on the Politburo. You can’t become a senior leader in China without having proved your worth as a manager. China’s leaders argue that its essentially Leninist rule book makes Chinese politics far less arbitrary or nepotistic than those of many other, notably Western, countries (even though the system has its share of back-scratching and opaque decision-making)...
Interesting you say since 1949, the Chinese government has base its system on Marxists/Leninist doctrine. Why would they use Soviet Dictators as good examples? I believe those two Gentlemen led Russia, with an iron fist, and many people suffered under their rule. Please, if anyone has more knowledge about life in Russia under their rule. Please elaborate?
Also what did they gain from looking at Chinese history? I also would like to hear more aboutt the Yighur (sorry for my spelling) people in, I believe Western China. Didn't the Chinese Government crack down on them, and treat them harshly, because many of them are Muslim? Someone out there, that knows about this, please elaborate, and tell us the story?
 
... Why would they use Soviet Dictators as good examples?...
China now uses a capitalism or semi-capitalism system , so they don't use all of the Marxism–Leninism ideology .

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism–Leninism
... Marxism–Leninism was developed from Bolshevism by Joseph Stalin in the 1920s based on his understanding and synthesis of classical Marxism and Leninism. Marxism–Leninism holds that a two-stage communist revolution is needed to replace capitalism. A vanguard party, organized through democratic centralism, would seize power on behalf of the proletariat and establish a one-party socialist state, called the dictatorship of the proletariat. The state would control the means of production, suppress opposition, counter-revolution, and the bourgeoisie, and promote Soviet collectivism, to pave the way for an eventual communist society that would be classless and stateless...
Also what did they gain from looking at Chinese history?
I don't know but I think all countries' leaders should learn about international history .
I also would like to hear more aboutt the Yighur (sorry for my spelling) people in, I believe Western China. Didn't the Chinese Government crack down on them, and treat them harshly, because many of them are Muslim? ...
From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_internment_camps
Title : Xinjiang internment camps (below is its partial copy not in the original order)

...Xinjiang conflict
... In July 2009, riots broke out in Xinjiang in response to a violent dispute between Uyghur and Han Chinese workers in a factory and they resulted in over 100 deaths. Following the riots, Uyghur radicals killed dozens of Chinese citizens in coordinated attacks from 2009 to 2016.... Several of the attacks were orchestrated by the Turkistan Islamic Party .. which has been designated a terrorist organization by several countries including Russia, Turkey, the United Kingdom, and the United States (until 2020), in addition to the United Nations.

Strategic motivations
After initially denying the existence of the camps the Chinese government has maintained that its actions in Xinjiang are justifiable responses to the threats of extremism and terrorism.

Several additional potential motives for the increased repression in Xinjiang have been presented by scholars who have conducted research outside China. First, the repression may simply be the result of increased dissent within the region beginning in circa 2009; second, it may be due to changes in minority policy which promoted assimilation into Han culture; and third, the repression may primarily be spearheaded by Communist Party's regional secretary himself, the result of his personally hardline attitude towards perceived acts of sedition.

China's government has used the terrorist attacks of 9/11 as a justification for its actions against the Uyghurs. It claims that its actions in Xinjiang are necessary because Xinjiang is another front in the "global war on terrorism"... The true reason for the repression of the Uyghurs is quite convoluted but some argue that this is based on the Chinese Communist Party/CCP's desire to preserve China's identity and integrity, rather than its desire to condemn terrorism.

Additionally, some analysts have suggested that the CCP considers Xinjiang a key route in China's Belt and Road Initiative/BRI , however, it considers Xinjiang's local population a potential threat to the initiative's success, or it fears that opening Xinjiang up may also open it up to radicalizing influences from other states which are participating in the BRI. Sean Roberts of George Washington University said the CCP sees Uyghurs' attachment to their traditional lands as a risk to the BRI ...

In November 2020, when the US dropped the Turkistan Islamic Party from its terrorist list because it was no longer "in existence", the decision was lauded by some intelligence officials because it removed the pretext for the Chinese government's decision to wage "terrorism eradication" campaigns against the Uyghurs. However, Yue Gang, a military commentator in Beijing stated, "in the wake of the US decision on the subject, China might seek to increase its counterterrorism activities." The group continues to be designated as a terrorist group by the United Nations Security Council as well as by the governments of other countries.

Both prior to and until shortly after the July 2009 Ürümqi riots, Wang Lequan was the Party Secretary for the Xinjiang region, ... worked on modernization programs in Xinjiang, including industrialization, development of commerce, roads, railways, hydrocarbon development and pipelines with neighboring Kazakhstan to eastern China. Wang also constrained local culture and religion, replaced the Uyghur language with Standard Mandarin as the medium of education in primary schools, and penalized or banned among government workers (in a region in which the government was a very large employer), the wearing of beards and headscarves, religious fasting and praying while on the job. In the 1990s, many Uyghurs in parts of Xinjiang could not speak Mandarin Chinese.

In April 2010, after the Ürümqi riots, Zhang Chunxian replaced Wang Lequan as the Communist Party chief. Zhang Chunxian continued and strengthened Wang's repressive policies. In 2011, Zhang proposed "modern culture leads the development in Xinjiang" as his policy statement and started to implement his modern culture propaganda. In 2012, he first mentioned the phrase "de-extremification" .

In 2013, the Belt and Road Initiative was announced, a massive trade project at the heart of which is Xinjiang.
In 2014, Chinese authorities announced a "people's war on terror" ... Under Zhang, the Communist Party launched its "Strike Hard Campaign against Violent Terrorism" in Xinjiang.[112]

In August 2016, Chen Quanguo, a well-known hardline Communist Party secretary in Tibet, took charge of the Xinjiang autonomous region. .. local authorities recruited over 90,000 police officers in 2016 and 2017 – twice as many as they recruited in the past seven years,... The province has come to be known as one of the most heavily policed regions of the world.

The camps :
The Xinjiang internment camps, officially called vocational education and training centers , ... are internment camps operated by the government of Xinjiang and the Chinese Communist Party .. Human Rights Watch says that they have been used to indoctrinate Uyghurs and other Muslims since 2017 as part of a "people's war on terror", a policy announced in 2014. 37 countries have expressed support for China's government for "counter-terrorism and deradicalization measures", including countries such as Russia, Saudi Arabia, .. meanwhile 22 or 43 countries, depending on source, have called on China to respect the human rights of the Uyghur community, including countries such as Canada, Germany, Turkey and Japan... The camps have been criticized by the subcommittee of the Canadian House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development for persecution of Uyghurs in China, including mistreatment, rape, torture, and genocide.

... Uyghurs have reportedly been interned without trial and no charges have been levied against them (held in administrative detention). Local authorities are reportedly holding hundreds of thousands of Uyghurs in these camps as well as members of other ethnic minority groups in China, for the stated purpose of countering extremism and terrorism and promoting social integration.

... it was estimated that Chinese authorities may have detained up to 1.8 million people, mostly Uyghurs but also including Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and other ethnic Turkic Muslims, Christians, as well as some foreign citizens including Kazakhstanis, ...

In 2019, at the United Nations, 54 countries, .., rejected the allegations and supported the Chinese government's policies in Xinjiang... In October 2020, it was reported that the total number of countries that denounced China increased to 39, while the total number of countries that defended China decreased to 45...
 
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How many (planty of) peope are moving to China? Numbers of foreigners in China is steadily decreasing and permanent residents are on 12.000 mark.
I believe it's around 15,000 but I'm open to correction. I understand most are teachers, tech experts, and higher up business people. I can't really argue too much as my personal knowledge is limited and may be inaccurate.
 

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