Second Visa Stamp after re-entering Indonesia on a 2nd home visa

well that's one way of looking at it. Let's try another way. The religion is mmaterial, I'm not religious and haven't seen the inside of a church/mosque or temple in 40 years. So if 10 minutes with an imam means we can marry legally in Indonesia, not really a problem.
$130k in a bank account earning interest which I can absolutely touch if I want to, and after we do marry and I get a visa based on that, I can remove it and use it. The 2nd home visa was just an easy way to get ITAS quickly and be able to stay in Indonesia raising our child. And 'foreclose' is what banks do to people who borrow money from them, not give money to them. The IDR could decline further and I guess Mandiri bank could go bust but that's not very likely.
As for the girl in question, that can happen to any marriage at any point with anyone. In this case we've known each other a number of years and have a child together, hence the desire to marry at this point.

To the actual original issue. My passport has wandered around the Jogja kantor immigrasi and various bits of Jogja airport whilst someone tries to work out which stamp is valid and how to fix the error by the immigration official. I rather hope it returns soon. But living in Indonesia has taught me the value of patience.
You really want complicate your life don't you? Banks can close, is what I meant. It happened in America in the 30's and people lost everything. Since you are comfortable already living with your girlfriend, and have a child, why go through so much hassle and marry?
Since you have so much money, why not just take care of your family and relax? The future could become crazy.
 
My WNI and wife and I had a civil ceremony in Townsville several years before we moved from Townsville to Indonesia. My wife's mother and father were both al Haji. I thought it would please the mother if my wife and I had an Islami ceremony so we went to a local Masjid in Townsville. I had a 3 minute conversion and then married straight after with just a single witness from the Masjid. We notified the Indonesian Embassy sending copies our marriage registrations and received a formal confirmation from the Embassy

At that point I had no idea about the visa complexities and had the Masjid ceremoney to please the mother. As it turned out this made the application for Sosbud and the Kitas straighforward ( well along with the complicated usual processes in visa application and multiple visits.) My kartu ID has me as a Muslim. I had long ago had an interest in comparative religion but am not a practising faith person. Neither Islamic or Christian. My moral compass, poor as it may be, is more influenced by Christianity.
 
You really want complicate your life don't you? Banks can close, is what I meant. It happened in America in the 30's and people lost everything. Since you are comfortable already living with your girlfriend, and have a child, why go through so much hassle and marry?
Since you have so much money, why not just take care of your family and relax? The future could become crazy.
Banks can close but Mandiri is very unlikely to do so as it's government-owned.
The main reason for marrying, apart from the fact we love each other and always intended to do so, is it gives us a path to legitimize our daughter who will, otherwise, go through life with the mark of a birth certificate with just one parent on it. We would like better for her than that.
 
My WNI and wife and I had a civil ceremony in Townsville several years before we moved from Townsville to Indonesia. My wife's mother and father were both al Haji. I thought it would please the mother if my wife and I had an Islami ceremony so we went to a local Masjid in Townsville. I had a 3 minute conversion and then married straight after with just a single witness from the Masjid. We notified the Indonesian Embassy sending copies our marriage registrations and received a formal confirmation from the Embassy

At that point I had no idea about the visa complexities and had the Masjid ceremoney to please the mother. As it turned out this made the application for Sosbud and the Kitas straighforward ( well along with the complicated usual processes in visa application and multiple visits.) My kartu ID has me as a Muslim. I had long ago had an interest in comparative religion but am not a practising faith person. Neither Islamic or Christian. My moral compass, poor as it may be, is more influenced by Christianity.
Thank you - this we also feel is the path of least resistance and we will do something similar.

Did you not actually have to do the (fairly short) conversion to muslim or was the Masjid happy to just do the service and fill in the forms and let immigration make assumptions?
 
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Banks can close but Mandiri is very unlikely to do so as it's government-owned.
The main reason for marrying, apart from the fact we love each other and always intended to do so, is it gives us a path to legitimize our daughter who will, otherwise, go through life with the mark of a birth certificate with just one parent on it. We would like better for her than that.
That's a good point about your daughter. What kind of stupid system says there is only one parent, just because you're not married? How do they think the mother got pregnant? God?
 
Yes. That would on the face of it be a lot easier. We could marry in Singapore easily and nobody would have to change religion. We'd marry in the civil ROM as the muslim one again is just for muslims.
But that marriage will not be recognized in Indonesia. You used to be able to apply to the court to have such a marriage recognized and recorded but the Supreme Court in 2023 issued a circular (SEMA #2 of 2023) prohibiting judges from granting such applications. Although that is procedural and advisory it is now pretty much impossible to get any court, even in the progressive court districts, to grant such an application.
Since that circular, no mixed marriage has been sanctioned for registration by any court in Indonesia (apart from one which was happening as the circular was issued).
A legal marriage in Indonesia is what we need so marrying abroad and retaining our own religious category is not an option.
Ah -ouch- I thought I had heard somewhere about the rules changing it seems they have.
 
Thank you - this we also feel is the path of least resistance and we will do something similar ...
I suggest you to marry in Indonesia . In general it may involve more documents/time , but no relevant problem . Time spent in conversion will depend on each mosque/church .

You may find a quicker marriage process abroad , but you will have more difficult in doing the post-marriage bureaucracy (registering in : the Indonesian Embassy abroad + Indonesia , translating/legalizing , ..?) .
 
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I suggest you to marry in Indonesia . In general it may involve more documents/time , but no relevant problem . Time spent will depend on each mosque/church .

You may find a quicker marriage process abroad , but you will have more difficult in doing the post-marriage bureaucracy (registering in : the Indonesian Embassy abroad + Indonesia , translating/legalizing , ..?) .
I agree with Marcus on this. A lot of hurdles involved that wouldn't be there if you just bit the bullet and took care of it locally.
 
I'm not that bothered honestly. Which leads to its own problem that it's been SO long since I went to a church anywhere I doubt I could even prove my religion (catholic) or find a priest who'd marry us. Changing to her religion is easier although for reasons we'd prefer to be subject to the secular courts here and not the muslim ones. "Becoming catholic" for her would take more than popping into the nearest church and making a donation to the church fund.

I'm not sure what we're going to do. But we need to figure something out.
If you decide to marry in Catholic church in Indonesia:
1. You need to find your (both) baptism certificates (one you got as a baby and the other one, the one the you got when you're 15 or above) from church in you country origin. If you got only one, you need to follow short course to get the 2nd one. Basically, the 2nd baptism is your consent as an adult that you still choose to be Catholic. Church keeps the documentation well. If the certificates exist, they can find the copy.
2. Contact a church in Indonesia. It's possible to have Catholic ceremony with non Catholic partner, with some requirements. Basically it asks whether the family of your partner have no objection that you'll do the ceremony in Catholic church.
3. Follow a marital course by the church. Probably once a week for 4 weeks. Basic knowledge of health, money management etc.
4. And then... an exam for both of you! 😄. You'll be interviewed seperately by the priest or a church representative. Basically they want to know if you really know each other and ready to commit in marital agreement.
5. A wedding ceremony. You'll get marriage certificate from the church that you can bring to get another "ceremony" in Catatan Sipil. In Catatan Sipil both of you sign another marriage certificate. This is the one that you can use internationally.
 
This sounds crazy to do. What a hassle. The church is really going to soak you for four weeks of these classes. Two baptism's, sounds like a contract for your soul! But hey, the Catholic church loves its Gold and celibate priests!
 
Two baptism's, sounds like a contract for your soul!
😅
The first baptism is usually held when someone was still a baby. Because this is beyond control of that baby, comes the 2nd baptism. The second one is a confirmation if that (young) adult someone still wants to stay Catholic.
 
😅
The first baptism is usually held when someone was still a baby. Because this is beyond control of that baby, comes the 2nd baptism. The second one is a confirmation if that (young) adult someone still wants to stay Catholic.
Do people really think a baby is born dirty and full of sin? That it needs to be purified by a Priest with water?
 
If you decide to marry in Catholic church in Indonesia:
1. You need to find your (both) baptism certificates (one you got as a baby and the other one, the one the you got when you're 15 or above) from church in you country origin. If you got only one, you need to follow short course to get the 2nd one. Basically, the 2nd baptism is your consent as an adult that you still choose to be Catholic. Church keeps the documentation well. If the certificates exist, they can find the copy.
2. Contact a church in Indonesia. It's possible to have Catholic ceremony with non Catholic partner, with some requirements. Basically it asks whether the family of your partner have no objection that you'll do the ceremony in Catholic church.
3. Follow a marital course by the church. Probably once a week for 4 weeks. Basic knowledge of health, money management etc.
4. And then... an exam for both of you! 😄. You'll be interviewed seperately by the priest or a church representative. Basically they want to know if you really know each other and ready to commit in marital agreement.
5. A wedding ceremony. You'll get marriage certificate from the church that you can bring to get another "ceremony" in Catatan Sipil. In Catatan Sipil both of you sign another marriage certificate. This is the one that you can use internationally.
Thanks for that. To make things MORE complex my family converted to catholic when I was young so there's even more documentation out there. However I don't think I have it, I long since do not remember the church (I've moved a LOT in my life and was young when this happened) and my parents are both long gone, I suspect any documents were part of their collection and no-longer around. I think the one when I was 15 would have been my confirmation certificate, probably was in a file my dad kept.

Also 2. .. yes a ceremony with a non-catholic is possible but that still makes the marriage not possible to register at Catalan Sipli (this is my understanding after research). We'd be married in the eyes of the church, but the state just does not any longer recognize interfaith marriages.

So my partner would have to do a year-long class, I may have to do something similar to 'prove' I am a catholic and then we could marry and be registered. But we'd also need to 'convert' our baby (I think that would just require baptism at this point) and then go update their religions on their KTPs. Given their KTPs are registered in a fairly rural part of Java that will also be ... interesting.

I feel the muslim is the way to go ..
 
Do people really think a baby is born dirty and full of sin? That it needs to be purified by a Priest with water?
At least that kid when they get older can leave and either join a different religion or none at all. Could be worse, the child could be Muslim automatically at birth and then forbidden to ever leave without punishment.
 
That's a good point about your daughter. What kind of stupid system says there is only one parent, just because you're not married? How do they think the mother got pregnant? God?
It'a possible to put the name of the father without marriage but they have to prove it first (eg. with DNA test) and get court ruling - which is another hassle.
Indonesia has her own law and regulation - however it doesn't make sense for you - and from what I read, OP & partner want to live here.
 
Do people really think a baby is born dirty and full of sin? That it needs to be purified by a Priest with water?
Not full. Just one, inherited by Adam and Eve 😁. I understand your point. Regardless your opinion, if you believe people should free to choose, they may also choose to follow rituals of their religion right?
 
At least that kid when they get older can leave and either join a different religion or none at all. Could be worse, the child could be Muslim automatically at birth and then forbidden to ever leave without punishment.
Why quote my post without answering the question? What you said doesn't relate. But you're right about it could worse, not allowed to ever leave without punishment. What kind of religion does that to people?
 
At least that kid when they get older can leave and either join a different religion or none at all. Could be worse, the child could be Muslim automatically at birth and then forbidden to ever leave without punishment.
Or forbidden to leave at all, like Muslims in Malaysia.
 
It'a possible to put the name of the father without marriage but they have to prove it first (eg. with DNA test) and get court ruling - which is another hassle.
Indonesia has her own law and regulation - however it doesn't make sense for you - and from what I read, OP & partner want to live here.
You are correct! And we have looked into this too. This isn't terribly hard but a bit time consuming and not cheap. If you also marry you can go one step further and really 'be the father'. Ah but that then goes back to marriage. If you marry such that you are subject to the Muslim court, it is much harder to 'rewrite the birth cert', if you marry as a catholic (for instance) you are subject to the secular court which is much easier. Regrettably one decision here affects all the others.
 
So my partner would have to do a year-long class, I may have to do something similar to 'prove' I am a catholic and then we could marry and be registered. But we'd also need to 'convert' our baby (I think that would just require baptism at this point) and then go update their religions on their KTPs. Given their KTPs are registered in a fairly rural part of Java that will also be ... interesting.
If your fiancé convert to your religion, it can be asked with the reason "istri ikut suami" - which is quite reasonable and acceptable in Indonesia. But yes, normally Catholic church will ask you to follow long course, can be 1 year long.

I know some Protestant churches that will just ask you to be their congregation. If you agree, you both will get baptism and they will arrange something quick for your wedding ceremony. But then you're "in debt", and leave the church/congregation/don't show up at church the next month won't feel fair. It's an option, but a bad one so it's something that I won't do.
 

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