Punishment for women who don't want to wear jilbab

[Pak Tani]

You Are Perfectly Created

In many verses of the Quran the human being has been described by Allah as being created in the best form, or created perfectly: “We have indeed created humankind in the best of molds.” Quran 95:4 (Surat At-Tin, The Fig) and: Keep supporting MuslimMatters for the sake of Allah Alhamdulillah...

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“We have indeed created humankind in the best of molds.”
Quran 95:4 (Surat At-Tin, The Fig)

“The work of Allah who has perfected everything (He created).
Qur’an 27:88 (An-Naml, The Ant)

“He is the One Who has made perfectly everything He has created: He began the creation of human beings with clay, And made his progeny from a quintessence of the nature of a fluid despised: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit…”
Quran 32:7-9 (As-Sajdah, the Prostration)

Thanks Rabbit, I stand corrected.

 

[Nimbus]

All Abrahamic religions require women to cover their hair. Orthodox Jewish women use a wig, because it counts as a cover (anything other than your own hair). Most Christians simply ignore it. As such the most visible representation is Muslim women.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Well that begs the question if Christians can ignore it why can't Jews and Muslims ignore it as well?
I haven't noticed millions of Christians being struck by thunderbolts or anything, so God is clearly not that concerned about it.

 

[Bob]

Well that begs the question if Christians can ignore it why can't Jews and Muslims ignore it as well?
I haven't noticed millions of Christians being struck by thunderbolts or anything, so God is clearly not that concerned about it.

That's not how it's supposed to work

 

[centurion]

Well that begs the question if Christians can ignore it why can't Jews and Muslims ignore it as well?
I haven't noticed millions of Christians being struck by thunderbolts or anything, so God is clearly not that concerned about it.

I am in Istanbul on holiday at the moment and almost nobody wears a jilbab, not to mention a burqa. Probably more burqas in Sweden than here. Even the azan from the mosques is synchronized and only one mosque in the neighborhood can be heard at the time, through high-quality speakers, with good singing (and there are much fewer mosques than in Jakarta, that are screaming all the time-even VP Kalla complained about that).

What has been described before is probably parochial religious bigotry, characteristical for the largest ASEAN member.

 

[Missnaughty]

Taken from Facebook, attributed to 'H.R. Imam Bukhari dan Muslim' (my translation from Indonesian)

"1. Punishment for women who expose the hair on their head to those other than their husband:
Her hair will be hung in the fires of hell until it boils her brain and this will last as long as she lived in the world without covering her hair.

2. Punishment for women who dress sexily and show off their chest:

To be hung by a chain of hellfire where her chest and center are tied to hellfire so that her calves and thighs are BBQed like a human BBQing a goat and this hellfire will be extremely painful for the woman.

3. Punishment for women who tease and try to excite other men with their beautiful bodies:

The woman's face will blacken and will eat the contents of her own stomach"

It's accompanied by an image of three devils poking three un-jilbabbed women in the fires of hill, and an exhortation to say 'amin' to avoid such punishments in the afterlife.

It does not seem to be based on any authentic Muslim teaching, but nonetheless attracts many likes, amins, and no criticism.

Such is the brainwashing in force in Indonesia and to be further and further and further promulgated when we get a fascist President in 2019. Then perhaps we will feel the hellfires burn, not merely after death, but also before it..

Why would anyone get punishment for their choice of wardrobe? People should be punished for pushing a mandate to other human being.. whether it is clothing, lifestyle, believes, unnecessary quarantine or vaccine that has not yet been verified its effectiveness.

 

[centurion]

Why would anyone get punishment for their choice of wardrobe? People should be punished for pushing a mandate to other human being.. whether it is clothing, lifestyle, believes, unnecessary quarantine or vaccine that has not yet been verified its effectiveness.

This is a good example of the motte-and-bailey fallacy, often used in the forum, and many places else.

 

[Nimbus]

Well that begs the question if Christians can ignore it why can't Jews and Muslims ignore it as well?
I haven't noticed millions of Christians being struck by thunderbolts or anything, so God is clearly not that concerned about it.

I think a sizable portion of Muslim and Jewish women ignore it too.

I am in Istanbul on holiday at the moment and almost nobody wears a jilbab, not to mention a burqa. Probably more burqas in Sweden than here. Even the azan from the mosques is synchronized and only one mosque in the neighborhood can be heard at the time, through high-quality speakers, with good singing (and there are much fewer mosques than in Jakarta, that are screaming all the time-even VP Kalla complained about that).

What has been described before is probably parochial religious bigotry, characteristical for the largest ASEAN member.

You should do a little research on Turkey before making this comment. The hijab was legally banned in the public sector until recently. Unlike Indonesia where religion has always been one of the constitutional principles since the founding of the republic, Turkey went full secular for many generations.

Turkey lifts generations-old ban on Islamic head scarf

Turkey lifted a ban on women wearing the Islamic head scarf in state institutions on Tuesday, ending a generations-old restriction as part of a package of reforms the government says are meant to improve democracy.

www.reuters.com

 

[Nimbus]

Why would anyone get punishment for their choice of wardrobe? People should be punished for pushing a mandate to other human being.. whether it is clothing, lifestyle, believes, unnecessary quarantine or vaccine that has not yet been verified its effectiveness.

What is your credential in declaring that vaccine effectiveness has not been verified?

 

[centurion]

You should do a little research on Turkey before making this comment. The hijab was legally banned in the public sector until recently. Unlike Indonesia where religion has always been one of the constitutional principles since the founding of the republic, Turkey went full secular for many generations.

I am aware of this fact, as we learn history in schools, and are aware of it(I am not a US citizen, nor Indonesian). The jilbabs and fez hats were banned by Ataturk in the name of progress, and the whole reform package catapulted Turkey to the 20th century straight from the middle ages. But even with Erdogan, it is hard to see jilbabs around and mostly grandmas wear it. Have seen one or two women government officials with jilbabs(working in museums).

If you have been found of Indonesian history, you could see that i.e. in Yogyakarta the Sultan's wife does not wear a jilbab nor is it in Javanese tradition. Even Sukarno was a die-hard leftist and that was not important for him.

But new middle eastern winds are sending Indonesia back to the Arabian deserts, meaning this is a relatively new parochial bigotry, caused by a lack of national self-confidence and identity (for no reason as Indonesia has a history to show and to be proud of, but kids today maybe don't care about history).

 

[Missnaughty]

What is your credential in declaring that vaccine effectiveness has not been verified?

Vaccine user & yahoo reader

 

[Nimbus]

I am aware of this fact, as we learn history in schools, and are aware of it(I am not a US citizen, nor Indonesian). The jilbabs and fez hats were banned by Ataturk in the name of progress, and the whole reform package catapulted Turkey to the 20th century straight from the middle ages. But even with Erdogan, it is hard to see jilbabs around and mostly grandmas wear it. Have seen one or two women government officials with jilbabs(working in museums).

If you have been found of Indonesian history, you could see that i.e. in Yogyakarta the Sultan's wife does not wear a jilbab nor is it in Javanese tradition. Even Sukarno was a die-hard leftist and that was not important for him.

But new middle eastern winds are sending Indonesia back to the Arabian deserts, meaning this is a relatively new parochial bigotry, caused by a lack of national self-confidence and identity (for no reason as Indonesia has a history to show and to be proud of, but kids today maybe don't care about history).

The hijab ban in Turkey was revoked in 2013, while Suharto (who did not approve it as part of government employee unifrm) stepped down in 1998. Back then there weren’t many women with jilbabs either in Indonesia.

It’s not about lack of national pride or simple bigotry, it’s far more complicated than that.

 

[centurion]

The hijab ban in Turkey was revoked in 2013, while Suharto (who did not approve it as part of government employee unifrm) stepped down in 1998. Back then there weren’t many women with jilbabs either in Indonesia.

It’s not about lack of national pride or simple bigotry, it’s far more complicated than that.

Actually it is as that simple.

More jilbabs →more bigotry→more backward and bigoted society. Also, more modest dresses+more big crosses on the neck→more backward and bigoted society
Suharto=30+ yrs of very repressive regime→people get very afraid to talk and think→more dumb population and parochial mentality, afraid of the outer world and lacking self-confidence.

 

[Nimbus]

Actually it is as that simple.

More jilbabs →more bigotry→more backward and bigoted society. Also, more modest dresses+more big crosses on the neck→more backward and bigoted society
Suharto=30+ yrs of very repressive regime→people get very afraid to talk and think→more dumb population and parochial mentality, afraid of the outer world and lacking self-confidence.

Suit yourself, I forgot that you’re the expert on Indonesia who understands every political layers and organizations and groups and the rest, better than a native who lived the Suharto era and fought him.

 

[fastpitch17]

Suit yourself, I forgot that you’re the expert on Indonesia who understands every political layers and organizations and groups and the rest, better than a native who lived the Suharto era and fought him.

The only positive I can offer for Suharto was that he kept a thumb on the radicals. The hijab came after his fall primarily when the radicals claimed their power.

My question still stands. Are the hijab wearing women of today stronger in their faith than the women of the days where hardly anyone wore a hijab. What about the Muslim women at the turn of the 20th century and before that basically found no embarrassment from being topless? Are the hijab wearing women of today stronger in their faith than those topless women?

 

[Missnaughty]

The only positive I can offer for Suharto was that he kept a thumb on the radicals. The hijab came after his fall primarily when the radicals claimed their power.

My question still stands. Are the hijab wearing women of today stronger in their faith than the women of the days where hardly anyone wore a hijab. What about the Muslim women at the turn of the 20th century and before that basically found no embarrassment from being topless? Are the hijab wearing women of today stronger in their faith than those topless women?

I actually like everything in Soeharto time. Educational television program for TVRI like kids program UNYIL or competition amongst farmers KLOMPENCAPIR. Competition to be best in everything. And I got to wear short in PE class. The only thing that I dont like, he took all the money from us.. but isn’t that what the current government also doing??? .

So much for fighting Soeharto, init @Nimbus?

 

[Missnaughty]

@fastpitch17 you are so funny . Topless and faith do not go together. But hijab also do not guarante faith. In Indonesia.. you need hijab to get elected or to advance your career in Government. Don’t you think everything in this modern day just a joke?? I am no longer complaint nor critizing.. just like to watch the comedy rolling.

 

[ChrisTex]

I actually like everything in Soeharto time. Educational television program for TVRI like kids program UNYIL or competition amongst farmers KLOMPENCAPIR. Competition to be best in everything. And I got to wear short in PE class. The only thing that I dont like, he took all the money from us.. but isn’t that what the current government also doing??? .

So much for fighting Soeharto, init @Nimbus?

Try all governments.

 

[Balifrog]

Topless and faith do not go together

Old Bali culture was topless ? And still very cultural.

you need hijab to get elected or to advance your career in Government. D

Sadly yes

Don’t you think everything in this modern day just a joke??

Better take it as a joke. Otherwhile it does your head in !

 

[Nimbus]

The only positive I can offer for Suharto was that he kept a thumb on the radicals. The hijab came after his fall primarily when the radicals claimed their power.

He repressed everybody, not just the radicals. Newspapers and magazines that pursued corruption cases got their publishing license revoked. He engineered the ouster by force of Megawati from the PDI, which is why she established PDI Perjuangan, the largest political party in Indonesia today. In the final years of his reign political activists began to disappear, never to be found alive anymore.

Suharto forced his brand of Pancasila and secularism to everybody, yet at the same time emphasized that being an atheist was tantamount to being a communist, which made you eligible to legal excommunication or worse. This was the guy who engineered the killing of between 400,000 to 2 million suspected communists after 1965, with help from religious organizations. People had to show that they had a religion, or else. This mindset persists in Indonesia today.

So, on one hand wearing a hijab to your government office job was an overt act of defiance, but on the other hand not having a religion made you ineligible for government job to begin with. Even today the second requirement for all government jobs is profession of faith to one God (the first being Indonesian citizenship).

It might be difficult to fathom to outsiders, but the jilbab is seen by many as a symbol of freedom of faith and morality, at odds with Suharto’s secular corruption. There is no debate that Suharto’s government was highly corrupt, thus secularism in Indonesia is forever tainted by it.

In late 90s Suharto began moving closer to religion and promoting his brand of it, hoping to secure lasting support from religious groups for his dynasty as he (correctly) predicted the rise of the nationalists, marching behind Megawati. He was looking for a deal similar to the one made by the Saud dynasty in Saudi Arabia. Give him and his family unconditional support, and in exchange he’ll let the hardliners define society as they wish and keep Sukarno followers at bay. Read up on Habibie’s ICMI.

There are so many twists and turns in Indonesian history worthy of Game of Thrones. To hear a simplistic claim on the rise of the jilbab in Indonesia is comical.

My question still stands. Are the hijab wearing women of today stronger in their faith than the women of the days where hardly anyone wore a hijab.

I’m not a woman, so I’m not in the best position to answer it. However, if I were to hazard a guess the answer is yes, but not by much and not universally. It doesn’t turn one into a hardliner. As a matter of fact it can give one a measure of safety to speak against hardliners. If two women with jilbabs have a disagreement, then it’s just opposing opinions. If one of them doesn’t wear a jilbab, then there’s an automatic suspicion that the jilbabless lady is against Islam.

What about the Muslim women at the turn of the 20th century and before that basically found no embarrassment from being topless? Are the hijab wearing women of today stronger in their faith than those topless women?

You will find that the topless women and the hijabed women belong to two different groups, by ethnicity and religion.