Polygamy in Indonesia

[jstar]

This movie is quite interesting. Obviously situated in another era and country and with a different religious background but very much acknowledging what @Chiron , @waarmstrong and @gemima state above.


The first ten minutes or so can be a bit chewy but once you get into the story...

 

[Dan]

The myth of the happy slave, polygamist corollary.

There really are well adjusted people who have made a decision to have polygamous relationships. Not all, not even most, of these relationships are based on coercion. Muslim women today and yesterday have always had the right to seek a divorce and have historically done so for a variety of reasons.

What consenting, the key word here, adults do behind closed doors is their business. Objecting to consenting adults engaging in polygamy is like objecting to gay marriage. Because it's outside of the established, but no more so valid, norm of monogamy it is reviled. There are compelling reasons why individuals should reject it for themselves, but not to dictate to others how to live their own lives.

 

[Dan]

That more or less sums up my overall opinion as well.

These may be "consenting adults", but I don't think the situation these two women find themselves in, is something they wished for. It's certainly something the husband wishes for - that's fairly obvious. What makes this situation intriguing to me, is how an out-of-context religious framework is wrapped around the whole process to not only legitimize the actions, but as a tool to manipulate these somewhat timid, and not-so-willing young ladies.

At the end of the day, it's worthwhile to understand how this segment of the population thinks. If I'm going to live in Indonesia, it stands to reason that I may meet someone who lives this lifestyle some day. It's good to know about the religious context, and the uniquely Indonesian cultural nuances.

Let's be honest with ourselves, people in monogamous relationships similarly end up in situations they're unhappy with. It's not as if polygamists have the market cornered on marital strife, duplicity and patriarchy. We're similarly instructed to adhere to monogamous family units, chiefly by religious values and social norms. Is there a playbook which suggests monogamy is inherently more so "fair"? Or is it simply what we're used to?

I don't personally like the idea of polygamy. It's not for me. I couldn't devote myself fairly and equally to multiple spouses. I'm a one woman man. But just because it's outside of my experience, my comfort zone, does not give me the right to indulge in sanctimonious finger wagging.

 

[vocalneal]

"Polygamy nearly always means rich men taking multiple wives. And if the top 10% of men marry four women each, then the bottom 30% cannot marry at all"

Which is probably why Christianity allows only one wife so there are enough to go around. Maintains a calmer society?

 

[R Cameron]

Still, I cannot in good conscience forbid the activities of consenting adults.

I totally agree with this; I think gay marriage should be legal, and polygamy should as well (but perhaps some tax benefit/regulations would need revision).

However, the tricky part here is definitely the "consenting" part. In the Vice example, the first wife took many years of arguments to give approval, is that really consent? The second wife said she had never wanted to be a second wife, but her father told her she should marry this guy, is that really consent? I am not saying no polygamous wives fully consent, but I suspect the majority of cases are not so clear.

 

[waarmstrong]

There really are well adjusted people who have made a decision to have polygamous relationships.....

Given time, most end badly, especially for the women and children.

 

[Daniel50]

This could be some of the Western version. I am not sure if the girls family were given goats or cows for giving their daughters over to this or if some girls/women were self referrals? But I am somewhat shocked that some women could be drawn towards men of money, power or status and that some men may try to use/abuse this power.
.https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/playboy-mansion-holly-madison-hugh-hefner

 

[IndoTom]

Here is another YouTube video on the subject of Polygamy in Islam from a woman that emphasizes the issue of it being for the benefit of the woman not the man. As another post mentioned, dealing with multiple in-laws might be a big headache. I do know in Indonesia that some of the stipulations are that it can only occur is the current wife gives her permissions and it is because the existing wife can not perform her family duties or can't have children. It is a shared burden on the husband and wives as I see it but with different caveats. Ultimately like any marraige there can be benefits and problems.

 

[IndoTom]

There really are well adjusted people who have made a decision to have polygamous relationships. Not all, not even most, of these relationships are based on coercion. Muslim women today and yesterday have always had the right to seek a divorce and have historically done so for a variety of reasons.

What consenting, the key word here, adults do behind closed doors is their business. Objecting to consenting adults engaging in polygamy is like objecting to gay marriage. Because it's outside of the established, but no more so valid, norm of monogamy it is reviled. There are compelling reasons why individuals should reject it for themselves, but not to dictate to others how to live their own lives.

I wonder why people think monogamy is NORMAL. Where did people get that idea? Is it based on that ever moving target of the "human rights" platform?

 

[IndoTom]

Which is probably why Christianity allows only one wife so there are enough to go around. Maintains a calmer society?

Where in the Bible (old or new) does it say that you can only have one wife? Or when you say Christianity you mean the rules that the church leaders made over the time since Jesus was no longer with us.

 

[jstar]

Where in the Bible (old or new) does it say that you can only have one wife? Or when you say Christianity you mean the rules that the church leaders made over the time since Jesus was no longer with us.

In the New Testament there are some references that monogamy is preferred. And in the Old Testament it is always
portrayed as a choice of the humans. But you’re right; in fact the Romans who had converted, had these monogamous marriage laws in place.

Talking about the Old Testament and Hebrew laws; there was something called a levirate marriage. So a man whose brother died without having children had to marry his brother’s widow, and their firstborn (son) would be the heir of the dead brother.

As a relatively ‘new’ religion, we can see Islam has been influenced (or cherry picked?) by other religions. That in combination with (very logical) rules and practices for harsh desert life.

 

[Fred]

I met a few men with 2 or more wives whilst in Kalimantan - No one thought anything of it, seeing it as perfectly normal and acceptable.
If it doesn't hurt anyone, why worry?

 

[Gratilla]

That's nothing.

I met a man with SEVEN wives!!


(As I was going to St Ives.)

 

[snpark]

I met a girl with 7 boyfriends, but none of them knew (as I was going to BATS)