new podcast: Indonesia's Defence Dilemma

[harryopal1]

I was always told, that Two Wrongs, Don't Make a Right!
I personally don't understand why all the Governments, Corporations, people in Power, put all their energy, into Selfishness, Greed, Corruption Power Grabs, etc. why can't people just get along and figure out how to help each Other?
Comment anyone?

I put your remarks and question to Artificial Intelligence. Here is the comment.

"It's a common saying that two wrongs don't make a right, and it applies to your question about selfishness and cooperation. Here's why cooperation might be challenging:

• Self-interest: People naturally prioritize their own needs and desires. This can lead to competition for resources and conflict.
• Power imbalances: Some people have more power than others, which can create situations where the powerful exploit the less powerful.
• Lack of trust: If people don't trust each other, they're less likely to cooperate for fear of being taken advantage of.

However, there are also many reasons why cooperation is essential:

• Collective benefit: By working together, people can achieve more than they could on their own. This can lead to advancements in science, technology, and social well-being.
• Social order: Cooperation is necessary for maintaining a stable and functioning society. Laws and social norms help people work together for the common good.
• Human empathy: Humans are naturally empathetic creatures, and many people have a desire to help others.

So, while there are challenges to cooperation, it's still a vital part of human society. There are many examples of successful cooperation throughout history, and there are ongoing efforts to promote cooperation on a global scale.

Here are some additional ideas:

• Social movements: movements that promote social justice and cooperation can create positive change.
• International organizations: Organizations like the United Nations work to foster cooperation between nations on issues like global health and climate change.

Ultimately, it's up to each individual to decide how they want to interact with the world. But by understanding the benefits of cooperation, we can all work towards a more just and peaceful society."

 

[Samoerai]

And that's why there are so many 'China Towns' all over the world and none 'Indonesian Towns'.

 

[Balifrog]

And that's why there are so many 'China Towns' all over the world and none 'Indonesian Towns'.

A very interesting book on the origin, history, development, power, influence of the Chinese overseas community. Going back to Sun Tzu till the 90's

 

[John indonesia]

Yes, but would you like to live in a society so monitored and controlled as is the case with China? After seeing what has taken place since taking over Hong Kong there must be many Taiwanese chewing their fingernail with anxiety.

Have you ever been to London? There are hundreds of cameras. Some CCTV, and the rest traffic cams.
That doesn't mean your point isn't valid as China seems to have more than most other countries.
As for the Chinese government - I don't trust them, but the alternative seems to be worse.

 

[John indonesia]

I don't recall PRC asking Vietnam, Malaysia, and the Philippines if they could take and militarize their territory. Nor do I remember them asking Indonesia if they could assert their 'traditional' fishing rights in the Natuna Sea.

I believe China is pushing beyond reasonable with their claims, but I can understand why they are building islands to protect their shipping lanes.
As for using them to claim more territory, that's clearly wrong. Saying that, the US can't complain as they have done far worse.

 

[John indonesia]

No

Bloodless invasion? The US was at war with Spain. Sailed into Guam harbor. Spain surrendered since no one told the garrison they were at war.

Bloodless? true.
Perhaps you might like to mention which side started the war.

That takes us back to Hawaii - Was that bloodless?

I don't agree with the Chinese at all, but the US can hardly complain since they have done far worse.

 

[John indonesia]

I like the Chinese approach of a "shared future", "common prosperity", and "win-win solution".

I see the Chinese as nothing more or less than capitalists hunting for cash. The only advantage is they don't destroy and kill in order to get power over other countries (Maybe in Tibet)

 

[harryopal1]

Bloodless? true.
Perhaps you might like to mention which side started the war.

That takes us back to Hawaii - Was that bloodless?

I don't agree with the Chinese at all, but the US can hardly complain since they have done far worse.

Well here's the thing and a fundamental difference in the two different types of countries. The US is not a monolithic entity with a single voice. On any given issue there may be millions of people who disagree with government policy and are able to express that difference. So a segment of the US population is not disqualified from voicing opinions different to government and can and are in fact entitled to complain.

China seeks to maintain a level of control so that there is only opinion can be expressed and that is the view of the Communist government.

 

[John indonesia]

Well here's the thing and a fundamental difference in the two different types of countries. The US is not a monolithic entity with a single voice. On any given issue there may be millions of people who disagree with government policy and are able to express that difference. So a segment of the US population is not disqualified from voicing opinions different to government and can and are in fact entitled to complain.

China seeks to maintain a level of control so that there is only opinion can be expressed and that is the view of the Communist government.

Possibly true.
Tell me about democracy in Guam
Julian Assange told the world about war crimes, but that isn't freedom of speech as it exposed war crimes.
Again, that doesn't excuse China, but it suggests the main country complaining about it is far from morally able to do so.

 

[Balifrog]

Well here's the thing and a fundamental difference in the two different types of countries. The US is not a monolithic entity with a single voice. On any given issue there may be millions of people who disagree with government policy and are able to express that difference. So a segment of the US population is not disqualified from voicing opinions different to government and can and are in fact entitled to complain.

China seeks to maintain a level of control so that there is only opinion can be expressed and that is the view of the Communist government.

Mmm, you remember why the Covid lockdown was suddenly completely lifted in China ? Because the government realized that the boiling pot was going to explode in their face.
Remember Tiananmen ? When pushed at a certain limit even Chinese will come down in the street. In masses.

 

[Hawk256]

Mmm, you remember why the Covid lockdown was suddenly completely lifted in China ? Because the government realized that the boiling pot was going to explode in their face.
Remember Tiananmen ? When pushed at a certain limit even Chinese will come down in the street. In masses.

A lot governments got to test their power over the people duing COVID. I imagine there were plenty of notes taken and jotted down somewhere.

 

[pantaiema]

And that's why there are so many 'China Towns' all over the world and none 'Indonesian Towns'.

This is due to the considerable size difference in population between the China and Indonesian.

it's notable that Chinese people are renowned for their adventurous. This is evident in the sizeable Chinese communities across Singapore, Malaysia, and Indonesia, where many are Chinese descendants of immigrants spanning multiple generations.

Similarly, in countries like Canada and Australia. In Canada for instance Chinese communities rank second only to Indian/ South Asian ethnic.

Even when rationalising these proportions as a percentage of the total population, the percentage of Chinese immigrants surpasses that of Indonesians by a significant margin.

Indonesians aren't widely recognized as immigrant communities. When they do immigrate, typically they'll eventually return to their home country. This aspect also contributes to why recruitment agents often favour hiring workers from Indonesia for roles like fruit picking or domestic work (historically). The agents anticipate that these workers will eventually return home, allowing them to continuously replace them with new workers and continue earning fees.

 

[Dave70]

There was quite a scandal in the Netherlands when it became clear that small trade representative offices on different locations in the country, were in fact Chinese police stations. Used to spy on and control their own people.

Extraordinary story that just happened in France ahead of Xi Jinping’s visit, straight out of a spy novel, that very much looks like an attempt to disrupt the visit.

Yesterday, one of the flagship programs of French TV, Envoyé Spécial, published a report where they show an alleged "clandestine operation of the Chinese police in Paris" in which there is an attempt to forcibly repatriate a Chinese "dissident" back to China. This is the trailer for the show: http://x.com/EnvoyeSpecial/…

However, the Chinese embassy in France just published the most extraordinary (never seen a statement like this by a Chinese embassy anywhere) and detailed rebuttal to the story. It's here in French: http://fr.china-embassy.gov.cn/fra/zfzj/202405/t20240502_11292331.htm

Let me translate it in full: (click below link for the translation)


Quite a statement! And, that's the interesting part: with extremely detailed and easily verifiable facts for fair-minded journalists - assuming they still exist in France - to verify. All in all, there's definitely something going on at the moment in Europe. Literally days after Scholtz came back from a trip to China last week, they suddenly find score of "Chinese spies" in Germany. Now days before Xi arrives in France, this comes out... Just yesterday the FT ran a big "China's spies turn to Europe" story, which I debunked here: https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1785705865863118997 It's all quite an interesting coincidence... Almost as if someone was actively trying to disrupt all European attempt to have good relations with China... but here I go being all conspiracist.

 

[harryopal1]

Extraordinary story that just happened in France ahead of Xi Jinping’s visit, straight out of a spy novel, that very much looks like an attempt to disrupt the visit.

Yesterday, one of the flagship programs of French TV, Envoyé Spécial, published a report where they show an alleged "clandestine operation of the Chinese police in Paris" in which there is an attempt to forcibly repatriate a Chinese "dissident" back to China. This is the trailer for the show: http://x.com/EnvoyeSpecial/…

However, the Chinese embassy in France just published the most extraordinary (never seen a statement like this by a Chinese embassy anywhere) and detailed rebuttal to the story. It's here in French: http://fr.china-embassy.gov.cn/fra/zfzj/202405/t20240502_11292331.htm

Let me translate it in full: (click below link for the translation)


Quite a statement! And, that's the interesting part: with extremely detailed and easily verifiable facts for fair-minded journalists - assuming they still exist in France - to verify. All in all, there's definitely something going on at the moment in Europe. Literally days after Scholtz came back from a trip to China last week, they suddenly find score of "Chinese spies" in Germany. Now days before Xi arrives in France, this comes out... Just yesterday the FT ran a big "China's spies turn to Europe" story, which I debunked here: https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1785705865863118997 It's all quite an interesting coincidence... Almost as if someone was actively trying to disrupt all European attempt to have good relations with China... but here I go being all conspiracist.

Anything is possible. Dirty trick departments seem to be a key part of every country's administration.

 

[jstar]

Yes, there has been a scandal in the Flemish part of Belgium as well. The ultra right (!) party Vlaams Belang which will most probably be the big winner in June’s elections, is in the center.

One if its prominent members was being accused of dealing with a Chinese spy to get the masks at the time during the pandemic. Now it seems he lied about it and that there were much more contacts between him -and other VB party members- and the Chinese.

The reply of Vlaams Belang more or less comes down to “at the time nobody knew he was a spy and we did get the masks, right?”.

Flemish far-right politician worked on behalf of China, investigation finds

Flemish far-right politician Filip Dewinter worked on behalf of China for years, an investigation by Belgian media has revealed. Documents show...

www.belganewsagency.eu

 

[centurion]

Extraordinary story that just happened in France ahead of Xi Jinping’s visit, straight out of a spy novel, that very much looks like an attempt to disrupt the visit.

Yesterday, one of the flagship programs of French TV, Envoyé Spécial, published a report where they show an alleged "clandestine operation of the Chinese police in Paris" in which there is an attempt to forcibly repatriate a Chinese "dissident" back to China. This is the trailer for the show: http://x.com/EnvoyeSpecial/…

However, the Chinese embassy in France just published the most extraordinary (never seen a statement like this by a Chinese embassy anywhere) and detailed rebuttal to the story. It's here in French: http://fr.china-embassy.gov.cn/fra/zfzj/202405/t20240502_11292331.htm

Let me translate it in full: (click below link for the translation)


Quite a statement! And, that's the interesting part: with extremely detailed and easily verifiable facts for fair-minded journalists - assuming they still exist in France - to verify. All in all, there's definitely something going on at the moment in Europe. Literally days after Scholtz came back from a trip to China last week, they suddenly find score of "Chinese spies" in Germany. Now days before Xi arrives in France, this comes out... Just yesterday the FT ran a big "China's spies turn to Europe" story, which I debunked here: https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1785705865863118997 It's all quite an interesting coincidence... Almost as if someone was actively trying to disrupt all European attempt to have good relations with China... but here I go being all conspiracist.

Another lie of the CCP.

 

[Dave70]

Another lie of the CCP.

Well, as suggested by the CCP, French police should open an investigation.

They should search the building of the 'secret Chinese police station,' search the restaurant La Cantine d'Amour where Ling Huazhan is supposed to have been stopped, pursue those people who would have tied him up, and check the 'Chinese police number' that harassed him. They could also inquire with the police of the ninth district of Paris and GHU Paris psychiatry & neurosciences to see if the Chinese Embassy has told the truth.

And as Arnaud Bertrand said, details provided by the embassy are easily verifiable facts for fair-minded journalists to verify.

 

[fastpitch17]

Possibly true.
Tell me about democracy in Guam
Julian Assange told the world about war crimes, but that isn't freedom of speech as it exposed war crimes.
Again, that doesn't excuse China, but it suggests the main country complaining about it is far from morally able to do so.

Have you ever been to Guam? I spent over 6 years there as a military member and then a DOD employee. You do realize it is an American Territory governed by the US Constitution. Local laws are based on California Laws. Government is populated by Guamanians and a few long time residents not Guamanian. While the US Military there has some influence, they have no control over how the Island is governed.

I remember an incident back in maybe 77. Family of military personnel attend public schools. The Air force base commander had a highschool aged son who attended highschool there. The son complained he was disrespected and not treated well by the school. The base commander took issue and threatened to close off the base which would block all local hires employment and military run schools to be set up since no one could enter or leave the base. Pentagon says, we don't think so and military dependents schooling comes under Guam policies and no one gets preferential treatment. 2 weeks and the base commander was replaced.

 

[centurion]

Well, as suggested by the CCP, French police should open an investigation.

They should search the building of the 'secret Chinese police station,' search the restaurant La Cantine d'Amour where Ling Huazhan is supposed to have been stopped, pursue those people who would have tied him up, and check the 'Chinese police number' that harassed him. They could also inquire with the police of the ninth district of Paris and GHU Paris psychiatry & neurosciences to see if the Chinese Embassy has told the truth.

And as Arnaud Bertrand said, details provided by the embassy are easily verifiable facts for fair-minded journalists to verify.

Police cannot investigate an embassy. Secret service should investigate, and consequently expell some Chinese diplomatic staff as it is customary in such situation.

I read the Chinese Embassy clarification linked, and it is clear that they are repatriating citizens that "he had been duped into participating in activities of the "Falungong" sect and now realized that he had made mistakes..."(sic).

CCP Association Amours et Cœurs (Love and Heart Association) assisting in repatrition is a bizzare detail, as in Orwel novels.


This Arnaud guy is either on CCP payrol or a useful idiot.

 

[Dave70]

Police cannot investigate an embassy. Secret service should investigate, and consequently expell some Chinese diplomatic staff as it is customary in such situation.

The alleged 'secret Chinese police station' is not located inside the Chinese embassy.