new podcast: Indonesia's Defence Dilemma

[John indonesia]

The US has 30k troops in.South Korea, many 1000's in Japan, and more.in Europe.
It does not shock anybody, so why would Chinese troops in some Island shock the world ?
Djibouti has US, French and Chinese troops since years.

And that is without mentioning the CIA's "black operations" everywhere in the world !

Shhh - That's a secret

 

[John indonesia]

Would be interesting to know if any in Indonesia.

I would be amazed if they didn't.
The UK, US, and a who bunch of other countries have under the radar intel operatives, so I suppose the Chinese do the same.
The question is not - do they have? - it's - Is that a problem?

 

[John indonesia]

If I may.....

It strikes me the Chinese military buildup didn't happen until after the US military 'Pacific Shift' under Obama.
That begs another question, is China any real military threat, or are they defending against what they see as aggression from other countries?
After all, the south China sea isn't anywhere near New York. China doesn't have massive military capabilities anywhere near the US, so what exactly is the problem?

I would venture to suggest money is the issue

 

[John indonesia]

It doesn't say the CIA handled it. Only they were listed as potential recipients.

But why would they be involved in a visa application?
Now consider the searches I suggested. Anies comes up as involved in a lot of CIA funded or CIA front groups operating in Indonesia.
I didn't get anything with Prabowo (That doesn't mean there are none, just I couldn't find any), and just two with Ganjar.
It takes a while, but once you look at the NED, you start to see which groups in Indonesia are working with/for the CIA. That doesn't mean they are actually aware, but it does mean there is a systematic infiltration.

 

[Samoerai]

That begs another question, is China any real military threat, or are they defending against what they see as aggression from other countries?

Also recently in the news ...

The American magazine Foreign Policy reports that China has built dozens of kilometers of roads, a small hydroelectric power station and several military bases in northern Bhutan. In this kingdom of Bhutan, less than 40 kilometers from the mountain plain, the Indian and Chinese armies are standing directly opposite each other. India fears that if China gets the disputed 'Doklam' valley, the border between India and China would shift a bit to the south, and China would gain a very strategic vantage point on a vulnerable part of India: the so-called chicken neck, a narrow strip of land that connects most of India with the northeast of the country, which lies east of Bangladesh.

 

[Shadrach]

If I may.....

It strikes me the Chinese military buildup didn't happen until after the US military 'Pacific Shift' under Obama.
That begs another question, is China any real military threat, or are they defending against what they see as aggression from other countries?
After all, the south China sea isn't anywhere near New York. China doesn't have massive military capabilities anywhere near the US, so what exactly is the problem?

I would venture to suggest money is the issue

Now, this response is hard to understand. I have been to most of the countries in this South Asian Region, and I don't think they are so aggressive as you suggest! And Why is this Ocean called the South China Sea? I would think, if I were the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Etc. I would be apprehensive, if huge powerful country like China, started building military bases, on islands they created in the middle of the Ocean! And Saying China hasn't been building a massive military buildup is not paying attention!
Personally, I don't support any country building up their military, stocked with nothing, but a bunch of Crap to Kill, Maim, and Destroy! This power play by countries, no matter Who! Is Negative, and will only hurt innocent Men,Women, and Children! I will never support this, in any way! What we need is Love, and Peace! Let's all help each other, with Kindness!

 

[jstar]

It strikes me the Chinese military buildup didn't happen until after the US military 'Pacific Shift' under Obama.

Already in the 70-ies China started with its military modernization program. And in the 80-ies they had some huge reforms of the army. As well as major investments in the PLA’s Rocket Force (all types of missiles are combined here). The latter got a lot of attention and expanded years before Obama became president.

NB: You‘re probably confused with the decision of 2015 (during Obama’s presidency) to design and produce their own weapons and relying less on Russia.

 

[John indonesia]

Now, this response is hard to understand. I have been to most of the countries in this South Asian Region, and I don't think they are so aggressive as you suggest! And Why is this Ocean called the South China Sea? I would think, if I were the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Etc. I would be apprehensive, if huge powerful country like China, started building military bases, on islands they created in the middle of the Ocean! And Saying China hasn't been building a massive military buildup is not paying attention!
Personally, I don't support any country building up their military, stocked with nothing, but a bunch of Crap to Kill, Maim, and Destroy! This power play by countries, no matter Who! Is Negative, and will only hurt innocent Men,Women, and Children! I will never support this, in any way! What we need is Love, and Peace! Let's all help each other, with Kindness!

The Chinese are building and militarising islands in the south China sea in reply to US aircraft carriers based in Guam and Hawaii - Two places the US invaded and militarised.
I find it amusing in a sick sort of way how people defend China or the US building up forces in the region, but the timeline of these increases suggests the US is the aggressive side.
In other words, Obama's Pacific shift started the regional arms race.

The world needs peace and love, but that isn't going to happen because there is far too much money in war and hate.

 

[John indonesia]

Obama 2009 - 2017
China's first carrier 1012
China's island building started in 2013

China has been adapting its military strategy for many years, the focus changing from keeping the Soviets out, to allowing a potential invasion by the US to move inland and conducting a war of attrition. They simply didn't have the forces to repel an attack.
If memory serves, the early 90s saw a 'local wars' idea that relied on high tech but local weapons to defeat an invasion.
In other words, no serious offensive capability - only defence.

(The above is from memory so please correct me if I'm wrong)

We are seeing a new version since the early 2000s, that being defending shipping lanes (trade routes) against what they probably see as an aggressive force moving into their home seas.
In reply, the US is citing China's military buildup as a reason why China should be an enemy.

As with many things, the timeline is the key to a clearer idea of what is really going on.

 

[John indonesia]

Also recently in the news ...

The American magazine Foreign Policy reports that China has built dozens of kilometers of roads, a small hydroelectric power station and several military bases in northern Bhutan. In this kingdom of Bhutan, less than 40 kilometers from the mountain plain, the Indian and Chinese armies are standing directly opposite each other. India fears that if China gets the disputed 'Doklam' valley, the border between India and China would shift a bit to the south, and China would gain a very strategic vantage point on a vulnerable part of India: the so-called chicken neck, a narrow strip of land that connects most of India with the northeast of the country, which lies east of Bangladesh.

I gather they have. I'm glad other countries don't build military bases all over the world.

 

[fastpitch17]

The Chinese are building and militarising islands in the south China sea in reply to US aircraft carriers based in Guam and Hawaii - Two places the US invaded and militarised.

Care to explain the invaded part?

I do not think there are any aircraft carriers based in Guam but do visit the Navy port in Apra Heights often. What would be more concerning to the Chinese is that the US Navy home bases a number of nuclear subs that even in port stay mostly submerged. There is also a stockpile of Nuclear weapons at Andersen AFB and a few other locations throughout the island. Also on Andersen are numerous B52s constantly on standby. It takes less than 10 minutes for an alert to sound and the crews in the aircraft ready to fly. The US doesn't need an Aircraft Carrier to keep eyes in China's build up. The land based Air Force, Navy, and Marine pilots do quite well. Add a few satalites and everything is clear as daylight.

 

[Shadrach]

The Chinese are building and militarising islands in the south China sea in reply to US aircraft carriers based in Guam and Hawaii - Two places the US invaded and militarised.
I find it amusing in a sick sort of way how people defend China or the US building up forces in the region, but the timeline of these increases suggests the US is the aggressive side.
In other words, Obama's Pacific shift started the regional arms race.

The world needs peace and love, but that isn't going to happen because there is far too much money in war and hate.

It is nice you respond to this. I am from Amerika and have never supported the waste, of young people being shipped off to fight for some unknown reason such as Vietnam! Thank you for saying the World needs, Peace and Love! We all know it is the only Way! To chase Money and Hate, will only bring a person to a negative ending!
Obama, was just a puppet in the on going struggle for power and control. He had to do what he was told to do! You cannot eat money! It's time to wake up, and grow a garden!

 

[Balifrog]

Now, this response is hard to understand. I have been to most of the countries in this South Asian Region, and I don't think they are so aggressive as you suggest! And Why is this Ocean called the South China Sea? I would think, if I were the Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia, Japan, Korea, Etc. I would be apprehensive, if huge powerful country like China, started building military bases, on islands they created in the middle of the Ocean! And Saying China hasn't been building a massive military buildup is not paying attention!
Personally, I don't support any country building up their military, stocked with nothing, but a bunch of Crap to Kill, Maim, and Destroy! This power play by countries, no matter Who! Is Negative, and will only hurt innocent Men,Women, and Children! I will never support this, in any way! What we need is Love, and Peace! Let's all help each other, with Kindness!

Check who started the most wars, coups, killing of head of states.....It wasn't China !
China are business people. War is bad for business (well except fir a few...)

 

[Bob]

Check who started the most wars, coups, killing of head of states.....It wasn't China !
China are business people. War is bad for business (well except fir a few...)

Like most countries, China's aggression is a factor of their capability. They haven't been able to project much power since the Europeans invaded and controlled them in the 18 and 1900's. They did mange to grab Tibet and Xinjiang / East Turkestan though since the opposition wasn't so powerful. Going back to pre-European colonial days, when China was a power they were also aggressive and involved in all that wars, coups, etc. empire stuff.

 

[fastpitch17]

Check who started the most wars, coups, killing of head of states.....It wasn't China !
China are business people. War is bad for business (well except fir a few...)

Tell us. Who started the most wars? Not who participated but started them.

 

[harryopal1]

It has always been the way of major powers to create vassal states as buffers against any potential enemies and then to tax and loot wealth from these weaker countries. China's present positioning is to secure its own interests regarding access to resources and by offering potentially crippling loans to lesser countries and draw them into China's sphere. During the last hundred years or so the USA has been rather more forceful using military or covert means to essentially control countries which it has been thought necessary to "administer" for economic and security reasons. Hopefully leaders of both China and the USA recognize they now have too much to lose to go to war with each other.

 

[pantaiema]

It has always been the way of major powers to create vassal states as buffers against any potential enemies and then to tax and loot wealth from these weaker countries. China's present positioning is to secure its own interests regarding access to resources and by offering potentially crippling loans to lesser countries and draw them into China's sphere. During the last hundred years or so the USA has been rather more forceful using military or covert means to essentially control countries which it has been thought necessary to "administer" for economic and security reasons. Hopefully leaders of both China and the USA recognize they now have too much to lose to go to war with each other.
View attachment 3986

With nuclear bomb, WMD as an option who will be the winner ?? I reckon noone ...

 

[Balifrog]

Tell us. Who started the most wars? Not who participated but started them.

DAS USA !

 

[Balifrog]

Going back to pre-European colonial days, when China was a power they were also aggressive and involved in all that wars, coups, etc. empire stuff.

Agreed, in an immense country like that, made of small kingdom, princes reigning some.territories it was a permanent infigthing.
But hey, look at the history of Europe over just the last 1000 years.......

 

[Balifrog]

Hopefully leaders of both China and the USA recognize they now have too much to lose to go to war with each other.

I am not so confident in that, with the US desperately clinging on their "we are #1" dream and being enraged at the idea of losing that position....
And history has told us they are ready to use any lie to justify starting a war (Tonkin incident, wepons of mass destruction, war on terror....)
I really wonder if they would go to war over Taiwan....but I dont think they will.