new podcast: Indonesia's Defence Dilemma

[harryopal1]

What the United States Did in Indonesia

A trove of recently released documents confirms that Washington’s role in the country’s 1965 massacre was part of a bigger Cold War strategy.

www.theatlantic.com

That looked like an interesting article but didn't fancy posting all my details including credit card to get a "free" trial. It may not be the case with this one but many "free" trials roll over into payments unless you cancel beforehand and often it is very difficult to find out how to cancel.

 

[Balifrog]

That looked like an interesting article but didn't fancy posting all my details including credit card to get a "free" trial. It may not be the case with this one but many "free" trials roll over into payments unless you cancel beforehand and often it is very difficult to find out how to cancel.

A very good book on the subject.

I ordered it through Periplus bookshop.

 

[centurion]

Hmmmm, the last time they "helped" Indonesia it caused 500.000 deaths....
Not to speak about siding with anti government rebels in Sumatra.....

Revolutionary Government of the Republic of Indonesia - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

What the United States Did in Indonesia

A trove of recently released documents confirms that Washington’s role in the country’s 1965 massacre was part of a bigger Cold War strategy.

www.theatlantic.com

They were in war with Vietnam, up tp 3 million dead civilians, and now they are the best buddies.
Reference below if haven't heard of it before.

Vietnam War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Balifrog]

Where are those massive amounts of forces based in the area?

Japan : 50.000
South Korea : 25.000
Guam : 10.000 (excluded family)

And F.I.Y. Germany 35.000

A Google search will give you more details.

 

[harryopal1]

No wonder UFOs don't land and join us. Just a passing by and hard not to conclude that the human species is crazy.

 

[MamangDudul]

Sadly you are right !
On the other hand Indonesia doesn't really have a gastronomic culture. It's just about feeding the animal. Not like Chinese or Thai.

Mind you, I see many Aussies here who prefer to put their money in Bintang and then buy a plastic bag of feed in the local warung.....

I gotta say you are a bit too negative about Indonesian food. I mean, we can't argue about taste, but there are indeed good and more expensive Indonesian restaurants.
The street food, again we don't need to argue about taste, and almost equal warungs are indeed to feed the people who have to live from minimum wages and less. Healthy? No. Does it make you full? Well it works for most people and if not buy another portion, it won't break the bank.
On the other side the typical sausage with pommes in Germany also isn't healthy, a baguette with different "fillings" isn't healthy, an Italian pizza isn't healthy, Burgers aren't healthy..and so on. I just counted the typical street food in some countries. So yeah, Indonesian street food for sure also isn't healthy, same goes for Thai or Chinese street food. Then again, a lot of people seem to like it.

For Bintang, it isn't really anything special, same as the Carlsberg or Heineken stuff they usually drink here. Beer by the numbers. Personally when we talk about the local beer I prefer Singa Raja, at least for me it tastes better than most for a price that Iam still willed to pay.

 

[Bob]

Japan : 50.000
South Korea : 25.000
Guam : 10.000 (excluded family)

And F.I.Y. Germany 35.000

A Google search will give you more details.

There are some in Australia too. Other than them, there aren't any based really in the area of Indonesia.

 

[jstar]

NATO ……. has gone from a defensive organisation to an agression organisation, and is 100% responsable for the start of the Ukraine war !

Don’t hold yourself back conspiracy wackos!

 

[Balifrog]

Learn history. Make it easy, start in 1991 at the break up of the USSR.

- Brezinsky's "The grand chessboard" is a good start.
Already at that time it was known by many that adding UKR to Nato was a red line for Russia. Well before Putin !

• Next was the broken promess of no NATO extension in compensation for Germany reunification. Well documented
• 2004 Orange revolution in UKR, involvement of the US (CIA)
• 2007 Munich Peace Conference Putin's speech warning.
• 2008 NATO conference, Sarkozy and Merkel strongly oppose the extension of NATO to UKR
• 2013 / 2014 Maidan putsch, throwing over an elected government. With the help of the US (Victoria Nulland...)
• 2014 Russia "recovers" Crimea (note that till 1954 it belonged to Russia but was handed to UKR as both countries being part of the USSR, it didn't make a difference)
• 2014 Minsk agreement 1
• 2015 Minsk agreement 2

Minsk agreements - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

- 2021 UKR attacks to reconquer Donbass separatist region (2014 to 2022 invasion : 14.000 death in the region)

All easily verifiable !

 

[jstar]

the broken promess of no NATO extension in compensation for Germany reunification. Well documented

All easily verifiable !

Countering disinformation on German reunification and NATO enlargement - Friends of Europe

www.friendsofeurope.org

 

[MamangDudul]

Countering disinformation on German reunification and NATO enlargement - Friends of Europe

www.friendsofeurope.org

View attachment 4011

Good answers

What should be my answer, just feed it haha

 

[jstar]

Well up to you but I’d rather take the word for it of the former US ambassador in Germany than a French retiree in Sanur. Reminds me a bit of the Salsa teacher in NL who led the anti vax movement there.

 

[Balifrog]

Well up to you but I’d rather take the word for it of the former US ambassador in Germany than a French retiree in Sanur. Reminds me a bit of the Salsa teacher in NL who led the anti vax movement there.

Countering disinformation on German reunification and NATO enlargement - Friends of Europe

www.friendsofeurope.org

View attachment 4011

Source "Friends of Europe" Sure a very reliable, independant source.
A bit like Radio Free Europe ?

Look at the member list....

Or better, look at their financing.....

And surprise, surprise, direct links with the US DoD .....

https://www.state.gov/event-with-friends-of-europe/

You want I dig deeper ? This took me 3 minutes....

 

[Balifrog]

And by the way, suggesting I am stupid and conspirationnist is not really a gentleman behaviour.
If you disagree, expose your case with proper reliable, non biaised sources.
And we can agree to disagree.....

Controversy in Russia regarding the legitimacy of eastward NATO expansion - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

Of course Radio Free Europe (US / CIA sponsorised) has it's version...
It's a myth ...

Did The West Promise Moscow That NATO Would Not Expand? Well, It's Complicated.

www.rferl.org

And BTW, USSR asked in 1954 to join NATO...
Google it .....

 

[Bob]

That looked like an interesting article but didn't fancy posting all my details including credit card to get a "free" trial. It may not be the case with this one but many "free" trials roll over into payments unless you cancel beforehand and often it is very difficult to find out how to cancel.

This may help with access to the article

Wayback Machine

wayback-api.archive.org

 

[jstar]

Source "Friends of Europe" Sure a very reliable, independant source.
A bit like Radio Free Europe ?

And surprise, surprise, direct links with the US DoD .....

You want I dig deeper ? This took me 3 minutes....

If you think reliable independent sources exist you are very naive. I never used the word stupid for you but on a forum you are what you write….

And yes, in every discussion here we have the same 3 culprits ventilate and plussing /agreeing to the same unproven made up crap. Bit tiresome, esp. since those people get more and more vocal, even on car and real estate forums they want to expose the deep states with …. blah blah blah

 

[Helpful Herbert]

And yes, in every discussion here we have the same 3 culprits ventilate and plussing /agreeing to the same unproven made up crap. Bit tiresome, esp. since those people get more and more vocal, even on car and real estate forums they want to expose the deep states with …. blah blah blah

The ignore button exists for a reason ...

 

[MamangDudul]

The ignore button exists for a reason ...

Exactly, even though it will be used against me anyway,since Iam one of the evil conspiracy culprits, I juat ignore people like jstar. While I can give and take and discuss, others can just say it's made up bullshit. No good basis for a discussion, so yeah..move along.

 

[centurion]

I hope he will ! NATO should have been disband in 1991.
It was kept together mainly to keep control of Europe and to sell US arms to the European "allies"
It has gone from a defensive organisation to an agression organisation, and is 100% responsable for the start of the Ukraine war !

NATO is a association of US allies that do not want to spend on their defence but want to be under US defense umbrella. Trump complained about Europeans not paying according to their commitments and funding their welfare states instead.

 

[centurion]

Learn history. Make it easy, start in 1991 at the break up of the USSR.

- Brezinsky's "The grand chessboard" is a good start.
Already at that time it was known by many that adding UKR to Nato was a red line for Russia. Well before Putin !

• Next was the broken promess of no NATO extension in compensation for Germany reunification. Well documented
• 2004 Orange revolution in UKR, involvement of the US (CIA)
• 2007 Munich Peace Conference Putin's speech warning.
• 2008 NATO conference, Sarkozy and Merkel strongly oppose the extension of NATO to UKR
• 2013 / 2014 Maidan putsch, throwing over an elected government. With the help of the US (Victoria Nulland...)
• 2014 Russia "recovers" Crimea (note that till 1954 it belonged to Russia but was handed to UKR as both countries being part of the USSR, it didn't make a difference)
• 2014 Minsk agreement 1
• 2015 Minsk agreement 2

Minsk agreements - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

- 2021 UKR attacks to reconquer Donbass separatist region (2014 to 2022 invasion : 14.000 death in the region)

All easily verifiable !

NATO overplayed its hand trying to contain Russia, but to be honest, all ex-Soviet lager want to have nothing ever with the Russians.