new podcast: Indonesia's Defence Dilemma

[jstar]

The ignore button exists for a reason ...

Very bad invention. Why would I not want to read that @Balifrog has some cool car history or about his experience in Sanur resto’s etc etc?

 

[Balifrog]

NATO overplayed its hand trying to contain Russia, but to be honest, all ex-Soviet lager want to have nothing ever with the Russians.

Which is understandable....

 

[Balifrog]

NATO is a association of US allies that do not want to spend on their defence but want to be under US defense umbrella. Trump complained about Europeans not paying according to their commitments and funding their welfare states instead.

No, it's an association of nations under US control.
There is a reason why De Gaulle decided to leave NATO and kick them out of France (although still doing joined exercises and using the same standards)
Sadly Chirac and Sarkozy decided to give up our sovereingty and rejoin

 

[centurion]

No, it's an association of nations under US control.
There is a reason why De Gaulle decided to leave NATO and kick them out of France (although still doing joined exercises and using the same standards)
Sadly Chirac and Sarkozy decided to give up our sovereingty and rejoin

Never from Italian a good car, never from a French a good soldier

 

[Bob]

Never from Italian a good car, never from a French a good soldier

You wouldn't turn up your nose at a Lamborghini.
There was Gilbert du Motier, and many more.

 

[MamangDudul]

My boss always said that italian soldiers were cowards and french cars are bad.
Well I think there are a lot of prejudices....

 

[John indonesia]

The US has at least one aircraft carrier battle group in the South China sea at any given time.
From memory, I understand the US 7th fleet in in the South China sea at the moment
If that's true, there are 50 or more ships and subs, 150 something aircraft, and something less than 30,00 sailors and marines (Give or take)

Feel free to show I'm in error as I'm working from memory so open to error or simply being out of date.

 

[John indonesia]

I suppose to defend Indonesians, when they ask to do so. Otherwise islands bye bye.

A guess, or is that a stated aim?
If it is, did Indonesia invite them to do so, and does Indonesia wish them to do so?

 

[John indonesia]

My boss always said that italian soldiers were cowards and french cars are bad.
Well I think there are a lot of prejudices....

I can't comment on the Italians

 

[John indonesia]

Brits, Australians, Jamaicans and Canadians are not voting for their king, and living in democracy. Guam has elections,and elects its own governor. It fulfils the criteria for a democratic system.

Are you saying it's democratic to have your leaders imposed on you (Except the ones that have no say in your future)?
If so, China is a democracy.

 

[John indonesia]

You can joke about it but I think the shipping companies and container ship crews are quite happy with the protection from the US (and UK) against attacks of the Houthi rebels. (And at least we get our stuff from Europe.)

Tell me if I'm wrong, but the vast majority of shipping in the South China sea that the US is protecting from China, is Chinese.
My headache is not being helped by this confusion.

 

[John indonesia]

Even with those Korean brands one has no idea where they come from. For the US market it could be a factory in Tennessee but esp. in East Asia the chances are high they are made in China. Or….

View attachment 4008

Remind me to look when I get home.

The theory I would put forward at this point is the US is a lot less concerned at any possible military threat from China, but extremely concerned at the economic threat.
I would further speculate, communist China is proving to be more proficient at capitalism that the combined political west.
In other words - It's all about cash

 

[jstar]

In other words - It's all about cash

Of course. Look where your KitchenAid is made for instance. The problem is also many parts are produced in China but the assembly could be somewhere else.

 

[centurion]

If it is, did Indonesia invite them to do so, and does Indonesia wish them to do so?

They are inviting them pretty often.

Indonesia hosts largest military drills with US, allies as South China Sea tension grows - Asia & Pacific - The Jakarta Post

Super Garuda Shield aims to enhance army capabilities, strengthen regional security.

www.thejakartapost.com

Indonesian, US troops begin 'Super Garuda Shield' joint drills - Politics - The Jakarta Post

The US and its Asian allies have expressed growing concern about China's increasing assertiveness in the Pacific, but Washington has said the drills are not aimed at any country.

www.thejakartapost.com

 

[jstar]

Currently in the news. Rather fitting with the “the US are everywhere” remarks made here:

Severe riots in New Caledonia, the French archipelago in the Pacific Ocean. France deployed more than 600 officers on Sunday to regain control of the road to the airport, a curfew is in place and TikTok has been deactivated.

The archipelago is located east of Australia, west of Fiji and north of New Zealand and has around 270,000 inhabitants. At the beginning of this week, serious riots broke out. Hundreds of shops and businesses were looted and set on fire. So far, six people have been killed and hundreds injured.

French President Macron has declared a state of emergency and deployed hundreds of extra police to stop the violence. In addition, the army guards the airport and the ports. People who support New Caledonia's independence have blocked access to the airport. Flights to and from New Caledonia have been cancelled. Tourists are stranded and neighboring countries Australia and New Zealand in particular are ready to evacuate them as soon as they get the green light from France.

The protests began after a call from pro-independence groups, including many members of the indigenous population, the Kanaks. They are against the constitutional amendment that the French government agreed to on Tuesday. In local elections, only the indigenous population - the Kanaks - and French citizens who settled there before 1998 can vote.

Macron would like to expand this and give voting rights to all French people who have lived in New Caledonia for at least ten years. This would apply to approximately 25,000 inhabitants. The pro-independence parties fear that this will cause them to lose influence and this would have negative consequences for the position of the Kanaks. Proponents argue that this makes the elections more democratic.

 

[Balifrog]

French President Macron has declared a state of emergency and deployed hundreds of extra police to stop the violence

This and a curfew... Silly move as they didn't have locally the means to enforce it... So the demonstrators didn't respect it, and the government lost all credibility.

My personal opinion : Rapatriate all metropolitans, give the Kanaks their independance, and stop financing them.
Six months later they are taken over by the Chinese, or have become like Haiti !

 

[Bob]

This and a curfew... Silly move as they didn't have locally the means to enforce it... So the demonstrators didn't respect it, and the government lost all credibility.

My personal opinion : Rapatriate all metropolitans, give the Kanaks their independance, and stop financing them.
Six months later they are taken over by the Chinese, or have become like Haiti !

Under that plan will they have to buy their independence like Haiti? Otherwise how would they end up in the same situation, with all that nickel to sell and not so many mouths to feed?
By the way there's a fair sized Indonesian community there. Apparently they've done quite well for themselves.

 

[Balifrog]

Under that plan will they have to buy their independence like Haiti? Otherwise how would they end up in the same situation, with all that nickel to sell and not so many mouths to feed?
By the way there's a fair sized Indonesian community there. Apparently they've done quite well for themselves.

Dig a bit in the economic viability of the nickel mines... So many money wasted in order to try to keep a certain peace, without succes.

Glencore is putting one of its mines and smelter on a 6 months standby, and wants out because they are losing too much money.
Nobody wants to take it over (except if financed by France).

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

Glencore seeks to pull out of nickel mine in New Caledonia

On Monday, Glencore launched a call for bidders for its shares in the Koniambo nickel mine.

www.swissinfo.ch

Nouvelle-Calédonie : coup dur pour l'Etat, le géant du nickel Glencore va placer l’usine Koniambo en sommeil

Le groupe suisse Glencore a annoncé ce lundi son intention de placer en sommeil l'usine de production de ferronickel de Koniambo Nickel SAS en Nouvelle-Calédonie. S’il indique « apprécier » l'assistance proposée par le gouvernement français en faveur de l’industrie du nickel dans l’archipel, les...

www.latribune.fr

As the mining industry represents 20% of local jobs it will be a social disaster
But I am pretty sur Chinese would make it work if given "carte blanche"

Concerning your second paragraph, traditionally in our overseas territories, Chinese and Libanese are doing pretty well running SME, shops and supermarkets.
Guess why ? The local population is not really interested in hard work or strict work ethics....

 

[centurion]

This and a curfew... Silly move as they didn't have locally the means to enforce it... So the demonstrators didn't respect it, and the government lost all credibility.

My personal opinion : Rapatriate all metropolitans, give the Kanaks their independance, and stop financing them.
Six months later they are taken over by the Chinese, or have become like Haiti !

I think Kanaks are already a minority in NK.

 

[jstar]

Talking about nickel, the courting between Tesla and the Indonesian government and the Chinese waiting as the proverbial third dog, is an ongoing saga.

Tesla visits nickel plant in Indonesia for potential investment

Nickel Industries from down under has invited Tesla, Panasonic, Northvolt, and other automakers and battery suppliers to invest in its facilities in Indonesia. The Australian company plans to expand into the high-purity nickel industry in the electric vehicle (EV) industry. Nickel Industries...

www.teslarati.com

Of course the question is if nickel has the future as some think it does.

https://eastasiaforum.org/2023/11/20/rethinking-indonesias-nickel-policies-to-power-economic-growth/

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