Mobil Rakyat...new cars

[Smallworld]

Last but not least, the way the car is used has a big impact on reliability and repairs. The index is a moment in time; JDPowers for instance, compares cars that are 6 months old or so. Then the question becomes how well the brands perform after two years or four years. But not only that, using a car for daily short rides in a city has a very different impact as professionals driving long highway stretches. And a substantial group of people will never keep their car longer than the warranty (so X years or 100K kilometers), that also affects the long term measurements.

I wouldn't put it better jstar.

 

[sumyunggai]

^
An example of a reason I don't really trust these reliability figures; compare the brands on 1 and 4 and 6. That simply makes no sense since they use the same parts.

And, in certain countries the Japanese warranty is 4 years and even 6-7 years on Korean cars. European brands often still offer 2 years.

Also, reserach shows that customers of the so called premium brands are a bit more prone to complain. (If you pay more, you expect more.)

Last but not least, the way the car is used has a big impact on reliability and repairs. The index is a moment in time; JDPowers for instance, compares cars that are 6 months old or so. Then the question becomes how well the brands perform after two years or four years. But not only that, using a car for daily short rides in a city has a very different impact as professionals driving long highway stretches. And a substantial group of people will never keep their car longer than the warranty (so X years or 100K kilometers), that also affects the long term measurements.

Not much of that makes sense. Daihatsu in Europe are imported from Japan but they discontinued sales in 2011. Other Japanese brands may be made in Europe. And the total set of parts might be the same but the breakdown is not - if one brand sells more large cars and the other small cars then reliability will be different.

Actually I believe the statistics just reflect warranty claims, and it is certainly true that a luxury car is going to be more risky than a cheap and simple car, but that still doesn't explain why Lexus comes far ahead of BMW and Mercedes when they compete in the same segments and use similar technologies

 

[jstar]

Daihatsu stopped sales as of 2013 but of course they still had their warranty (and parts) commitments. But indeed, I think we agree the index does not make a lot of sense. (But hey, I didn't publish it here ;-p)

So choosing and buying a new car should be based on....? The (comparison) tests by car magazines are interesting but don't show the quality, future repairs and depreciation. New models appear all the time, a facelift nowadays is every 2 years and a new model every 4 years. (Of course there are exceptions; Mercedes is doing somewhat better, Koreans and Mazda are worse.) With the maintenance interval getting bigger and bigger, proximity and quality of a workshop becomes less important.

Still a lot to choose from in the selection critera of course: internal space, size, safety, fuel consumption, power, ground clearance, driving characteristics, options, warranty....

Personally I would always prefer a hybrid solution in Europe or the US. All the brands jumped on the bandwagon now. Depending on its use, perhaps even full electric. Over here, the fuel price is still low. And even if you want an environmentally friendlier car then you can only go for Toyota and Lexus. I do expect Nissan and Honda solutions any moment, perhaps KIA as well.

 

[jstar]

The new Nissan X-Trail Hybrid will set you back a whopping IDR 634.200.000. And the regular X-Trail is 395.000.000. Now that will be motivating people.

 

[jstar]

.
Talking about hybrids, the Toyota Camry is one of the most succesful hybrids in the country with a total sales of 1.000. To put it in perspective; the total worlwide sales of Toyota hybrids is 9 million cars.

The Camry got a facelift btw. Is also has been given some more safety features. This is still -by far- the most successful car in its segment, with a sales volume of approx. 1.400 per year.

 

[harryopal1]

Good afternoon,

Lots of interesting input here. As a new car is beyond me I am considering a Suzuki Karimun around about 2002 model for use in Bali. I do appreciate that with any secondhand car the same model can range from a worn out totally unreliable machine to one in decent condition and well maintained. That aside I would be interested in comments on Suzukis as a second hand possibility. I am assuming a price range from around

62.000.000 to 75,000.
​

Thanks in anticipation of your responses.
Yours tropically, Harryopal.

T
​

 

[Jaime C]

I'd be very hesitant to buy a 15 year old car here. I've seen much newer cars here, say 2009-2012 for 90-110 jt, that would be my choice.

 

[jstar]

As a new car is beyond me I am considering a Suzuki Karimun around about 2002 model for use in Bali. .....I am assuming a price range from around

62.000.000 to 75,000.​

I realize Bali is somewhat more expensive than the DKI, Harry. But for the budget you mentioned (62-75 juta?) you would normally get a 2013-14 model, and you search for a first generation Karimun of '02?!

I would save a bit and get a (practically) new car for just over 100 juta. In the smaller Daithatsu and Korean models and Datsun Go range that is feasible.

 

[CaturMuka]

I do appreciate that with any secondhand car the same model can range from a worn out totally unreliable machine to one in decent condition and well maintained.

I can't comment specifically on Suzuki Karimuns, but I went through the process of buying a second hand car a couple of years ago.

Here's a few tips:

http://olx.co.id is very good for second hand cars. Here's a link for second hand Karimuns in Bali: http://olx.co.id/mobil/bekas/bali/q-karimun/?search[order]=filter_float_price:asc

You should take the details of a listing with a grain of salt. "New tires" shouldn't really be an ambiguous term but it is. Often, the seller didn't really know what they were doing when they made the listing and include details that are simply not true. For example, a fuel injected engine when it's really a carburetor. You're really going to have to know the details of your intended purchase inside and out.

The biggest "gotcha" for me was that the worn out lemons still demand a high price, it's such a different market than Australia. The difference in price from the car with 270,000km on the odometer to the one with 70,000km was only 20%. There didn't seem to be much point in getting the cheaper, worn out ones, you'd just have to plow any money you saved straight into fixing it up.

 

[jstar]

That's the point here, isn't it? They just pull numbers out of their @sses. (Bit similar to the real estate market.) Why does someone ask ten juta more for a car that is 2 years older and in worse shape than another? Sorry to put it like this, but the answer falls the same category as "why does a dog lick his balls?"; because he can.

 

[Davita]

The Indonesian car market is totally different to most countries.
A few years back we bought a new Avanza G 1.3...2 years later we traded for the newer Avanza Velox. After bargaining the price they offered the same amount we paid 2 years earlier......as trade.
In Canada and UK...in my experience...as soon as you drive a new car out of the showroom it depreciates some 20%.

 

[jstar]

Yep, this is one of the few countries you could end up without making a big loss selling your second hand.

We have a couple of Veloz-es in the (extended) family and the nice silver elements in the car are (as so often) painted plastic. Since people's sweaty hands rest on these parts in doors and on the dashboard, it strikes me the silver comes off and you see the black coming through. In a (cheaper) Xenia or lower version those parts are mat (dof) black to begin with so no issues whatsoever.

I have noticed afterwards that more of these "V" series, for instance from Innova and Fortuner, have similar issues. Alphard is better.

 

[Davita]

I don't pay much attention to cars these days, as I don't drive anymore, but I did notice our driver hung one of these nice-smell sachets on the dash and it has defaced a small area of silver. I asked him to clean it but he said the same as you...it is permanent. I think I might return the car for a newer model....if they give me my money back...

 

[jstar]

The good (but also tricky) thing is that before selling the car they will make it look brand spanking new. Masters in restauration.

 

[jstar]

And now for something completely different.


So you just became the proud owner of a new Toyota Corolla.....

 

[jstar]

Some other news

• The Volkswagen Golf MKVII will get a facelift the coming months. It is no surprise that with a price between 400 and 730 juta this car is not so popular in RI. The 400 million rupiah is for a 1.2 liter btw.
• The Toyota Vios will get a better engine. Which is more fuel efficient. So soon in a BlueBird or Express taxi close to you.
• BMW announced the new 5 series. Not a bad design but as Audi and Mercedes, they all start to look alike, it is more and more difficult to differentiate the 3-, 5- and 7-series. The good thing is that plug-in and M versions will be available right away. (In selected markets.)
• A new Honda CRV is announced in the USA. This is already the fifth generation. This time there will also be a 1.5 liter variant. But it seems there will not be a third row. The rear light unit reminds me somewhat of the Volvo XC90..

 

[jstar]

The 1.5 liter engine in the CR-V is not the same as the one in the HR-V btw. (That was lacking some power, as we discussed before.) This is a new turbo engine which will generate 190 horsepower (against 130 for the vtec from the HR-V).

 

[Banana72]

Nice looking CRV!

 

[Scooterindo]

Nice looking CRV!

Yeah so unique - just like all the others

 

[jstar]

.
Well, the Germans are doing the same. And perhaps even worse nowadays. Look at the Benz, Beemer and Audi in this picture; I put in 9 unique cars. If you see one of those three brands in your rear view mirror, you will have no clue anymore which model it is...

Top down from left to right:
MB C-Class, E-Class, S-Class.
Audi A4, A6, A8.
BMW 3-series, 5-series, 7-series.


In fact, brands like Honda and Lexus are one of the few that have a rather unique styling per model. Landrover & Range Rover, Volvo, Renault, Nissan, Ford, all suffer the same 'house style'.

Easy for the designers though.