Low-Cost Locations: Where Expat Incomes Go Further

[scouser59]

Me too!!! (Well, I don't care about the monkeys particularly, but having various sorts of wildlife around is nice). That's why I can't wait to retire permanently to Hawaii; it is the opposite of living in Jakarta.

Hawaii sounds nice .Ya nowhere is perfect even my modest place with the odd monkey .

 

[Daniel50]

I guess solo could be a lower cost destination. It could turn out well as I doubt you will be the first Western person to reside there and I doubt the last. Also, as adults we have the ability to learn, grow and make changes as we deem necessary.

 

[Puspawarna]

It could turn out well as I doubt you will be the first Western person to reside there and I doubt the last.

This is definitely true - there are tons of Westerners in Solo at any given time, who are there to study gamelan. Since they are mostly young single folks on tight budgets, they may not tend to cross paths with Chiron and his wife much. But the Solonese are definitely used to seeing Westerners around.

 

[Chiron]

When I fist visited Solo just a year or two after KrisMon (1998 crisis), it had an eerie feeling. My then wife-to-be's family was near Pasar Gede which was completely burned down. It was also not too far from Solo Baru (the more upscale area) which had several mansion style homes destroyed in the riots. That first impression left me just a bit underwhelmed, and would have never imagined that I'd now be considering to actually live there. Ironically, the area of Solo Baru is the specific location I'm researching.

On the flip side, I also saw the rich cultural side of Solo that Puspawarna has noted. A number of college student and adventurous types who at the time were on the decline in numbers from the heydays of the 80's and 90's. Over the years, as the city recovered, some of those adventurers started coming back. However, compared to Bali the number of western expats and other visitors is a small fraction. One expat, who seemed to speak with authority mentioned that in the six regencies surrounding Solo there are an estimated 300+ western expats living there permanently out of a total population of around 6 million. Most of the other expats are Chinese, Middle Eastern, or other Asian countries. I believe in Bali it's in the hundreds of thousands. That said, western expats have always sort of felt like an anomaly in Solo - even though a constant flow of culture seekers come and go. The isolation from western culture can be good or bad depending on how one looks at things. Interestingly, the place has sort of grown on me, despite it's quirky flaws.

Some people have mentioned there's a radical leaning in the city. I've not really seen this, and overall people generally seem to be quite "soft" and pleasant. However, your mileage may vary, and to a large extent it depends on your behavior as well. Be very patient, slow down, and do not raise your voice. My wife has "trained" me thoroughly in Solonese customs and protocol. Really, my biggest problem with Solo (and Indonesia overall), are the mosquitos and the noise levels of city life. One possible solution may find me moving to Tawangmangu (on the slopes of Gunung Lawu), if I get permission to do so. Cooler temps, quiet, peaceful, and a diminished mosquito population. Also, that location may end up being cheaper - getting back to the original premise of this thread.

 

[john madden]

Tawangmangu is delightful!

 

[Daniel50]

I will see where Bali and Indonesia go in the next 10 years. Maybe there will be some real bargains to be had on Bali, or maybe not. I don't think I would buy a leasehold property but would get Freehold and put it in a relatives name, if it was somewhere I wanted to live.

 

[Chiron]

I know, right? But I checked our emails, and yep ... it was clear they were paying 20 juta/month (to be fair their place was very centrally located by a lot of palace stuff).

I agree that the whole thing seems really bizarre - however my friend is an old Solo hand, married to a Solo native, speaks fluent Javanese ... so I trust what she says. On the other hand, I also trust the examples in this thread of townhouses available for much cheaper. Maybe it's to do with location and the attractive, affordable townhouses are out of town a bit? I have no idea.

Chiron, you'll have to update this thread with what you find on your Solo trip!

Just providing an update to this thread from my real estate viewings last week in Solo. There's several observations that I've made.

The first thing to mention, is that recent and numerous floodings have had an impact. I'm told that there's a dam upstream from the city that's gradually filled up with sediment (due to deforestation) over the years, and now most heavy rains force the dam engineers to open the sluice gates. The result is that a number of areas get flooded in the city. Flood free areas tend to be more expensive. There are many great deals, but they tend to be flood prone.

Another observation is that a number of housing development projects seemed to have run out of money. We went to a couple places that had great looking pictures online, but on arrival we found it to be quite different. One case was the "Beverly Hills of Java" in Genten. These were 4-5 bedroom units that were in the Rp 1.5 billion range. The property had about 30 lots, but only half had a home. Of the homes that were built, only a third of them were occupied. The units for sale looked like they had been deserted many years ago. The property looked like a disaster hit. Walls were falling down, the security shack looked like no one had been keeping guard for years. On top of all that - most of the units had obvious water damage from leaky roofs.

We finally found something that was really quite nice. I certainly would be happy to live in this place. A brand new development in a flood free area. The houses come with water purification system, solar hot water system, very solid construction, and a small plunge pool (9 m X 3 m). There was a security gate that was being actively manned, and CCTV cameras around the property walls. For a 4 bed, 3 bath house with 160 sq.m interior, the going price was Rp 2.5 billion (or about $185K USD). All that said, just to say that I feel this may be overpriced, but the developer kept reminding me that all things are negotiable.

We also looked at rentals, and there were some decent places for about Rp 65 Jt. per year. They were typically a bit small with about 70-90 sqm, but in a quiet area of town.

The search continues, and I'm sure something will eventually hit the price and size we're seeking - and is in great condition in a good location.

 

[Puspawarna]

Thank you Chiron, that was so informative.

I did not know the part about the frequent flooding problems, but that make a lot of sense in terms of the house my friend and her husband just built - as they were proudly showing us the place, they pointed out how it had been designed to keep water out of the house. Now I understand why!

 

[steveandpenny]

Last year I attempted to create a total cost of living in Solo, Central Java on a per month basis for two people and one part-time household staff. I made the assumptions that I would be renting a house, and use uber, go-jek, and other public transport instead of buying a car. For food, there would be (at least initially) a fairly westernized diet, with a number of pricey health food and supplement items. I probably would end up eating out (or ordering go-food) much more than I do in the states. The following is the estimate that was tabulated:

Rent (120 sq/m house with security gate)- 7Jt
Transport (Uber, Taxis, etc.) - 3Jt
Food/Restaurants/Supplements - 7Jt
Electric/Gas/Internet/Pulsa (for 2 cells) - 2.5Jt
Other misc items - 2Jt
Housekeeper part-time - 1.5Jt

Total: 23Jt per month. That's about 276Jt per year, or a little over $20K USD at current exchange rates.

I've been told by several friends and family in Indonesia that this is excessive, and at least one that said it was not nearly enough. He thought I should average in medical/dental costs, but I handled that in the other category. In any case, this is much less than what I'm spending in Houston - about 50% less.

I find that total of 20,000 a fair guess of a comfortable amount to live a full comfortable life (as long as you aren't in Bali or Jakarta) . Our yearly budget is about 18,000.
We pay a lot less for our rent but we pay a lot for imagation stuff each year.(yeah we pay way too much for agent , soon see and misc stuff , like helping the village but a new roof on office). We are a American couple so we have to pay twice for everything. This budget doesn't include any trips to the states but does include a two week trip to somewhere in southeast Asia and a few hops around Indonesia per year. We moved here with only what could fit in our suitcases (We did leave all our scuba gear here on another trip) . So we planned on a moving shopping expense the frist year....bike , a.c., bed, refergator, washer, water dispenser so on and so frot... We did leave a few things in storage in the states and have bought them over on different trips( but not alot)
What worked for us is we rented a house for a year (wish we could of done it for 6 momths) then looked for a home which we found after 9 months . Don't look for the perfect house to start till you know the area and price market.