Land ownership and registration certificate

You can make a simple loan agreement over a duty stamp (materai), it has to be in Bahasa, and no need for a notary. The loan can be in USD, so the interest rate could be low (0.25-0.5%).
I made a loan agreement: 25 years + 0,5 % interest per year, starting next month. Would that be okay, in spite of I transferred all of the payments for the house in 2020? If I pre- date the loan agreement, I donnot have proof that my wife transferred the monthly payments to my bank account.

Maybe a solution for this not having proof of transferring the monthly payments to my bank account is this:

A contract with my wife that I pay rent for staying at her house. Maybe that sounds crazy. But let's be honest. The tax authorities here, treat the house I bought for my wife as income and taxeable (I don't know if this is correct English) because man (WNA) and wife (WNI) have no direct vertical relationship. In fact, the same situation as a stranger gives money to my wife. So, in light of this, I am renting a room in her house with use of bathroom and kitchen facilities. Paying rent as much as the monthly payments she has to pay me.

Question: acceptable or not?
 
I made a loan agreement: 25 years + 0,5 % interest per year, starting next month. Would that be okay, in spite of I transferred all of the payments for the house in 2020? If I pre- date the loan agreement, I donnot have proof that my wife transferred the monthly payments to my bank account.

Maybe a solution for this not having proof of transferring the monthly payments to my bank account is this:

A contract with my wife that I pay rent for staying at her house. Maybe that sounds crazy. But let's be honest. The tax authorities here, treat the house I bought for my wife as income and taxeable (I don't know if this is correct English) because man (WNA) and wife (WNI) have no direct vertical relationship. In fact, the same situation as a stranger gives money to my wife. So, in light of this, I am renting a room in her house with use of bathroom and kitchen facilities. Paying rent as much as the monthly payments she has to pay me.

Question: acceptable or not?
You do not need to have bank transfers for loan repayment installments. You can have receipts signed over materai (duty stamp), confirming she received the money.

If you rent, your spouse (owner) will have to pay 10% tax on rent.
 
You do not need to have bank transfers for loan repayment installments. You can have receipts signed over materai (duty stamp), confirming she received the money.

If you rent, your spouse (owner) will have to pay 10% tax on rent.
You mean: she can have receipts confirming I recieved the money, right?
 
A company, Indonesian or PMA, may not own freehold land (Hak Milik). They can own Hak Guna Bangunan, with the caveat that for PMA the business is not created for the main purpose of owning the HGB.
Dafluff, you comment was what I suspected to be the position that the PMA "not created for the main purpose of owning the HGB". This totally make sense. The advisors out there are saying quite something which I don't really buy - one can set up a PMA as a vehicle to own land
 
Dafluff, you comment was what I suspected to be the position that the PMA "not created for the main purpose of owning the HGB". This totally make sense. The advisors out there are saying quite something which I don't really buy - one can set up a PMA as a vehicle to own land
You can set a PMA as a vehicle for land or real estate, and register it with a business line "owning and managing real estate", but there are some limitations:

-PMA has high paid-in capital and high running costs, a lot of reporting obligations that will become more strict as everything goes online,
-In case of empty land, HGB requires the building to be built in 2 years,
-there is a corporate structure that is expensive (resident director, commissioner etc).

So if you open a PMA just to hold the land, and not run a business in the meantime, it is not so profitable, especially for smaller units or smaller land.
 
Dafluff, you comment was what I suspected to be the position that the PMA "not created for the main purpose of owning the HGB". This totally make sense. The advisors out there are saying quite something which I don't really buy - one can set up a PMA as a vehicle to own land
When come to owning a land, property involving a lot of money, just be careful what the advisor is telling you. Keep in mind they might be just a salesman colluding with a property developer aiming for commission. When you ask them they will just tell you what you want to hear and hide the other facts that might discourage you to invest/buy property. But here we can't blame them, they are salesmen. The headline that a regulation is now allowing foreigners to own properties is just like this, sockpuppeting aiming to fool kid.

Kid Sock-puppeting.jpg

It is quite similar to various visas to attract talents, investors, etc that have been introduced or will be introduced, investors visa, second home, golden visa, retirement visa etc. If you carefully have a look of it you might notice it is only a very small change to deserve a headlines and sometimes the change is worse.

Due diligence, cross-checking it with multiple independent parties is a must. But nowadays there are ChatGPT, Bard AI saving people time to start with DDs. This is what ChatGPT& Bard AI are saying, again will need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but at least it is a good starting point. More importantly they are independent and free from other interests. The most authoritative sources is certainly to see what the law is saying. But again in Indonesia it could be different things as it will depend on who decide the case and make judgement.

1a.JPG

Bard AI.JPG
 
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@pantaiema That AI response is wrong to say a PT PMA can own Hak Milik land, it will still be HGB. And HGB is truly closer to ownership than a "lease" as it is sometimes portrayed. I agree that skepticism is good, both of salesmen and AI.
 
Is this true? A WNA can own a house and the land the house is standing on.


"So, with this provision, a passport or visa is sufficient, foreigners can own property in Indonesia. So this is somewhat different from the previous one, previously we asked for a KITAS (Limited Stay Permit Card) and KITAP (Permanent Stay Permit Card) as well,"

"Now in the possession of a foreigner the KITAS and KITAP will be given after the foreigner gets or buys a property in Indonesia, so the positions are reversed,"


 
Is this true? A WNA can own a house and the land the house is standing on.
No, not 'full' ownership known as Hak Milik. That appears to simply be a change that KITAS and KITAP are no longer required, only a passport. Foreigners may have Hak Milik of an apartment in a multi story building (which has no ownership of the land beneath it). Foreigners may have Hak Pakai or Hak Guna Bangunan over grounded houses, which are designations with some similarities to ownership, but are not full ownership.
 
No, not 'full' ownership known as Hak Milik. That appears to simply be a change that KITAS and KITAP are no longer required, only a passport. Foreigners may have Hak Milik of an apartment in a multi story building (which has no ownership of the land beneath it). Foreigners may have Hak Pakai or Hak Guna Bangunan over grounded houses, which are designations with some similarities to ownership, but are not full ownership.
The news that a WNA can buy property with a passport only is getting viral.
Indonesians saying "It's a bad idea" because they are afraid that prices go up.
But, I wonder... would prices on property go up?
Are foreigners, like rich main land Chinese, willing want to buy property in Indonesia for themselves to live in or just for investments?
 

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The news that a WNA can buy property with a passport only is getting viral.
Indonesians saying "It's a bad idea" because they are afraid that prices go up.
But, I wonder... would prices on property go up?
Are foreigners, like rich main land Chinese, willing want to buy property in Indonesia for themselves to live in or just for investments?
Could it be that the reference to 'buy' a property means via hak pakai? I found articles online stating similar to your IG post, but they had more details, for example, a landed property cannot be more than 2000 square meters and has to have a certain value, for example in Bali USD 330,000, or IDR 5 billion, which squarely fits the requirements of hak pakai. Perhaps the change, if any, is that a foreigner no longer needs a residence permit to hold HP, which at the end of the day is almost as good as hak milik, in the sense that it is for up to 80 years, the government is the ultimate 'owner' and the title can be converted back to hak milik when sold on to a WNI so the property rights do not depreciate like a leasehold. Given this, it is understandable how the media could equate HP with 'ownership'..
 
Could it be that the reference to 'buy' a property means via hak pakai? I found articles online stating similar to your IG post, but they had more details, for example, a landed property cannot be more than 2000 square meters and has to have a certain value, for example in Bali USD 330,000, or IDR 5 billion, which squarely fits the requirements of hak pakai. Perhaps the change, if any, is that a foreigner no longer needs a residence permit to hold HP, which at the end of the day is almost as good as hak milik, in the sense that it is for up to 80 years, the government is the ultimate 'owner' and the title can be converted back to hak milik when sold on to a WNI so the property rights do not depreciate like a leasehold. Given this, it is understandable how the media could equate HP with 'ownership'..
Foreigners can now buy apartments with Hak Milik Atas Satuan Rumah Susun, basically a regular apartment that fits in upper price bracket, and apartments/houses in Hak Pengelolaan Atas Tanah (HPL) area-these are reclaimed islands in North Jakarta, it also reffers to these two besides Hak Pakai.
 
Foreigners can now buy apartments with HAK MILIK Atas Satuan Rumah Susun, basically a regular apartment that fits in upper price bracket, and apartments/houses in Hak Pengelolaan Atas Tanah (HPL) area-these are reclaimed islands in North Jakarta, it also reffers to these two besides Hak Pakai.
I just want to bounce back this thread, as this is actually an interesting topic.

In my personal opinion, if such statements come from property agents or independent agents, advertisement, they are likely intended to mislead people through semantic play.

What kind of "hak milik" do you actually have for a flat, apartment in 'Rumah Susun'. high-rise building? Even if you could own have freehold of the flats, apartment, in perpetuity, you could inherit it to your offsprings, it is still property in a high-rise building and you do not have the freehold of the land, common areas such as stairs, Lobby, underground car park, plant room, etc. In 80 years (say), the building might become structurally unstable and need to be demolished. Does it really matter whether you had 'hak milik' or 'hak pakai' in that situation?. I fully believe many people understand the quality of the building and building materials in Indonesia.

IMO, If the building is destroyed, it won’t make a difference whether you owned it as hak pakai, hak milik, leasehold, or freehold, at that point, you will own nothing.

From what I understand, from agrarian law, only Indonesian citizens (WNI) can own land, landed property with hak milik. Even foreign owned companies (PMA) cannot hold hak milik in this case.
 
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I just want to bounce back this thread, as this is actually an interesting topic.

In my personal opinion, if such statements come from property agents or independent agents, advertisement, they are likely intended to mislead people through semantic play.

What kind of "hak milik" do you actually have for a flat, apartment in 'Rumah Susun'. high-rise buildin? Even if you could own have freehold of the flats, apartment, in perpetuity, you could inherit it to your offsprings, it is still property in a high-rise building and you do not have the freehold of the land. In 80 years (say), the building might become structurally unstable and need to be demolished. Does it really matter whether you had 'hak milik' or 'hak pakai' in that situation?. I fully believe many people understand the quality of the building and building materials in Indonesia.

IMO, If the building is destroyed, it won’t make a difference whether you owned it as hak pakai, hak milik, leasehold, or freehold, at that point, you will own nothing.

From what I understand, from agrarian law, only Indonesian citizens (WNI) can own land, landed property with hak milik. Even foreign owned companies (PMA) cannot hold hak milik in this case.
Exactly right, it's basically a 'loophole' because foreigners may not own land, but it allows them to own a home in a multi-level. Someday, when the building is gone, the owner has no rights to the land.
 
Exactly right, it's basically a 'loophole' because foreigners may not own land, but it allows them to own a home in a multi-level. Someday, when the building is gone, the owner has no rights to the land.
Additionally, a minimum price is established for this. For instance, in Java and Bali, the minimum property price is set at Rp5 billion. For those interested, I am sharing Kepmen ATR KBPN Number 1241/SK-HK.02/IX/2022, which outlines the minimum price requirements for each province for foreigners and Indonesian diaspora seeking to purchase property. Notably, Indonesian diaspora only need to meet 75% of the minimum price set for other foreign buyers.
 

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Just saw this post in another forum:
"We have BOUGHT land in Bali and need a design-build architect who can handle both design and construction management. If you know someone amazing, tag them or DM me their details.
Thanks!"

And looking into his profile he actually has these banners on his FB profile
1737381434180.png


There is no explanation the meaning of the wording 'bought' here, what title do they hold whether leasing, Hak Pakai, HGB, etc. But considering that banner I doubt anyone on that position does not understand about land title, land ownership in Indonesia.
 

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This is yet another example of a foreigner spreading misinformation about land ownership while flaunting their lifestyle in Bali to scam people. However, it is good to know that he has now been banned from re-entering Indonesia. He self proclaim to own a lot of villas in Bali. Now he has been deported What will happen with his villa investment then (If any) ???


This is his channel and the list videos he has posted:
One of his video
Flying Private (private jet) as a Multi-Millionaire to Paris o_Oo_Oo_O

It is clear to me that this person is an investment scammer. Wealthy individuals, such as hedge fund managers and billionaires, usually don’t flaunt their lifestyle like that. However, many naive millennials and Gen_Zs fall for things like this, which is why they are often the primary targets of investment scammers. But there are a lot of investment scammer like this on YTs, but now some of them have moved their target on properties, villas in Bali.

In the past there are Indonesian investment, trading, NFTs, crypto, scammers most of them are already behind bar.
 
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Villa Ownership problem in Ubud, Bali
German Citizen, owner of Villa in "Russian Village" in Bali Becomes Suspect.

The reason for detention, he converted a food crop subzone into a villa with a spa and an animal farm was due to a lack of proper permits.

There is no clear explanation of how his company managed to construct the villa without a permit. It seems unlikely that building authorities, during their patrols, would fail to notice the ongoing construction. It’s hard to believe he would recklessly build the villa without any permits. He may have secured some form of authorization before proceeding with the construction.
 
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