Jobs with minimal Indonesian Language Skills

[centurion]

I'm not sure of the current regulations but at one time it was you had to have 10 Indonesian workers for every 1 foreign workers. Management was excluded from the numbers.

Not applicable anymore, it was in some short period of time, theoretically 1:1 now for expert/managerial positions.

 

[pantaiema]

This is something I have been saying to my Indonesian friends, for a long time. If the Indonesian government continues to allow foreign nations,(China, Russia, etc,) make investments, and borrow money from them to build infrastructures in Indonesia, then the foreign countries are going to want some control over their investments.

This isn't just about the Chinese government, any foreign government that provides soft loans, aid, or financial assistance, war reparation projects to other countries operates in a similar manner. Just look at foreign aid agencies and international contractors working on international projects funded by soft loans from foreign governments. This is also the way to claw back some money. Also in the past you saw a lot of American, European, Australian, Canadian working on the oil/gas, mining industries in Borneo, Papua, Sumatra, South Sulawesi, etc.

Before the influx of Chinese workers, many Japanese foreign workers were involved in power plant, dam projects, building manufacturing facilities in Indonesia funded by the Japanese government development fund or Japanese banks.

For this foreign funded project, it is easy to demonstrate that there aren't enough local workers qualified for the job. Simply include in the job description a requirement for prior experience on similar projects of the same scale, the ability to operate certain machine without close supervision, fluency in foreign language or the like. This approach would effectively filter out a large number of Indonesian applicants who may not meet the necessary requirements. Also, it makes sense since many people prefer to hire individuals they have previously worked with, ensuring they know the quality, work ethic, sub-culture and values they can expect.

 

[fastpitch17]

Not applicable anymore, it was in some short period of time, theoretically 1:1 now for expert/managerial positions.

That's managerial positions. What about general laborers?

 

[Shadrach]

This isn't just about the Chinese government, any foreign government that provides soft loans, aid, or financial assistance, war reparation projects to other countries operates in a similar manner. Just look at foreign aid agencies and international contractors working on international projects funded by soft loans from foreign governments. This is also the way to claw back some money. Also in the past you saw a lot of American, European, Australian, Canadian working on the oil/gas, mining industries in Borneo, Papua, Sumatra, South Sulawesi, etc.

Before the influx of Chinese workers, many Japanese foreign workers were involved in power plant, dam projects, building manufacturing facilities in Indonesia funded by the Japanese government development fund or Japanese banks.

For this foreign funded project, it is easy to demonstrate that there aren't enough local workers qualified for the job. Simply include in the job description a requirement for prior experience on similar projects of the same scale, the ability to operate certain machine without close supervision, fluency in foreign language or the like. This approach would effectively filter out a large number of Indonesian applicants who may not meet the necessary requirements. Also, it makes sense since many people prefer to hire individuals they have previously worked with, ensuring they know the quality, work ethic, sub-culture and values they can expect.

Well, that does make sense to hire qualified workers. All the first projects you mentioned were only ways to help the Indonesian government rape and plunder the riches of those places to make profit. Damn to the environment, or the indigenous people!
The projects you mentioned about the Japanese sound more like projects to give people electricity, and making products, which people need, and those projects would provide lot of work for the Indonesian people! I prefer the latter projects!

 

[centurion]

That's managerial positions. What about general laborers?

The rule for skillled (managers, specialists and experts) are "one foreigner-one indonesian trainee". Trainee can be recruited from the total workforce. General laborers positions (non-skilled workforce) cannot be filled with foreign workers.

 

[fastpitch17]

The rule for skillled (managers, specialists and experts) are "one foreigner-one indonesian trainee". Trainee can be recruited from the total workforce. General laborers positions (non-skilled workforce) cannot be filled with foreign workers.

That seems to be the problem. Indonesian laborers are saying that they work side by side with Chinese laborers. Brought in under management status but actually only general laborers.

 

[Shadrach]

That seems to be the problem. Indonesian laborers are saying that they work side by side with Chinese laborers. Brought in under management status but actually only general laborers.

Well there, it says that for every manager, one trainee. That seems fair, and practical. But for being a laborer, that should be done by local population first and only foreigners for skilled jobs, locals can't do.
So, since this point has been MADE! ( If There Is A Problem) with foreigners taking common labor jobs, (It Is The Indonesian Managers Duty) to comply with the rules established by the government, and stop this hiring practice!
The Unions have to make the Indonesian Bosses comply with the Law! It is not the Chinese laborers, or the Indonesian laborers fault in this. They all are just wanting to work!
There must be a checks and balance system, to ( Control) that the Chinese skilled laborers, are only doing the work they are allowed to do!

 

[centurion]

That seems to be the problem. Indonesian laborers are saying that they work side by side with Chinese laborers. Brought in under management status but actually only general laborers.

They could be specialists. In Chinese smelters, up to 10% of workforce are foreigners.

 

[fastpitch17]

They could be specialists. In Chinese smelters, up to 10% of workforce are foreigners.

Yeah, could be because it takes specialist to move and place RR Ties, set bricks, and dig holes.

 

[centurion]

Yeah, could be because it takes specialist to move and place RR Ties, set bricks, and dig holes.

Need specialist to work on a blast furnace. Imported Chinese worker is XXtimes more expensive than a local one.

Nobody would import a workforce if does need to do it. These are not illegal Mexicans that work for low money, quite the opposite.

 

[pantaiema]

Need specialist to work on a blast furnace. Imported Chinese worker is XXtimes more expensive than a local one.

Nobody would import a workforce if does need to do it. These are not illegal Mexicans that work for low money, quite the opposite.

In my opinion, for highly skilled jobs that require extensive training, the definition of a managerial position is subjective. For example, a supervisor, trainer might meet this requirement. They are a highly trained individual overseeing local trainees who will eventually replace them. In any role the employer will need to provide an RPTKA to ensure the training of local employees to take over these positions in the future.

In addition to skilled Chinese workers in smelters for raw nickel and mining, highly trained foreign workers are also found in industries such as construction and railways. There are some specialist machines, which needs skills, many training hours to be able to operate these specialist machines properly and safely.

It is unreasonable for companies to hire foreigners at a significantly higher salary than local workers when local workers are abundant for a fraction of the salary.

 

[pantaiema]

Well there, it says that for every manager, one trainee. That seems fair, and practical. But for being a laborer, that should be done by local population first and only foreigners for skilled jobs, locals can't do.
So, since this point has been MADE! ( If There Is A Problem) with foreigners taking common labor jobs, (It Is The Indonesian Managers Duty) to comply with the rules established by the government, and stop this hiring practice!

I do not think these foreign workers are working as common labours filling roles that could be taken by local labourers, as there is an abundance of common laborers in Indonesia.

It's important to remember that companies must apply for a work permit (IMTA), submit an RPTKA, and cover the costs of removal and repatriation for foreign workers. Additionally, they must pay significantly higher BPJS (kesehatan, tenaga kerja) contributions, as these are based on a percentage of the worker's salary.

I also wonder if common foreigner coming from developing country, good benefit system would be willing to work as a bricklayer or general labourer, earning the Indonesian minimum wage. They get much more and they do not need to work by staying in their own country.

Also, remember that these foreign workers are helping subsidize the BPJS system in Indonesia, benefiting local residents and foreign retirees living in Indonesia. It's important to note that they likely have private international insurance provided by their employers as part of their perks. As a result, even though they pay higher BPJS premiums, they are unlikely to use the system.

 

[Shadrach]

In my opinion, for highly skilled jobs that require extensive training, the definition of a managerial position is subjective. For example, a supervisor, trainer might meet this requirement. They are a highly trained individual overseeing local trainees who will eventually replace them. In any role the employer will need to provide an RPTKA to ensure the training of local employees to take over these positions in the future.

In addition to skilled Chinese workers in smelters for raw nickel and mining, highly trained foreign workers are also found in industries such as construction and railways. There are some specialist machines, which needs skills, many training hours to be able to operate these specialist machines properly and safely.

It is unreasonable for companies to hire foreigners at a significantly higher salary than local workers when local workers are abundant for a fraction of the salary.

Yes that's true, but you said it yourself. For some jobs, it takes many hours of training that are required to operate special machinery. But for common labor, it would be senseless and wrong, to hire and pay foreign workers a higher salary for what locals can do.

 

[Shadrach]

I do not think these foreign workers are working as common labours filling roles that could be taken by local labourers, as there is an abundance of common laborers in Indonesia.

It's important to remember that companies must apply for a work permit (IMTA), submit an RPTKA, and cover the costs of removal and repatriation for foreign workers. Additionally, they must pay significantly higher BPJS (health and workforce) contributions, as these are based on a percentage of the worker's salary.

I also wonder if common foreigner coming from developing country, good benefit system would be willing to work as a bricklayer or general labourer, earning the Indonesian minimum wage. They get much more and they do not need to work by staying in their own country.

Also don't forget that these foreign workers are contributing to funding the BPJS system in Indonesia, for the benefit of local people and foreign retirees living in Indonesia.

All very good points! I don't think anyone on this forum would work those jobs unless they had no choice, and got hungry enough. Myself personally. I'm too old, and broken to be able to do them.
I don't understand what you mean about common foreigners coming to this country. Are they tourists, or people wanting to work? If they are coming here to work, then they probably know and expect to earn Indonesian wages. Not more. If they got more and were satisfied in their home country, they wouldn't come here to work?
Tourists don't come here to work Indonesian jobs.

 

[Hawk256]

All very good points! I don't think anyone on this forum would work those jobs unless they had no choice, and got hungry enough. Myself personally. I'm too old, and broken to be able to do them.
I don't understand what you mean about common foreigners coming to this country. Are they tourists, or people wanting to work? If they are coming here to work, then they probably know and expect to earn Indonesian wages. Not more. If they got more and were satisfied in their home country, they wouldn't come here to work?
Tourists don't come here to work Indonesian jobs.

I have had numerous offers to work since I have been here. Some legit, others not so much but absolutely zero have been a good enough offer to make me get out of bed early. I'm not saying that to be arrogant but more to say that the offers just aren't that good. I worked extremely hard all my life and have a high value on my time at my age.

 

[pantaiema]

All very good points! I don't think anyone on this forum would work those jobs unless they had no choice, and got hungry enough. Myself personally. I'm too old, and broken to be able to do them.
I don't understand what you mean about common foreigners coming to this country. Are they tourists, or people wanting to work? If they are coming here to work, then they probably know and expect to earn Indonesian wages. Not more. If they got more and were satisfied in their home country, they wouldn't come here to work?
Tourists don't come here to work Indonesian jobs.

To put things into perspective, in the UK, for instance a single parent could receive up to £2,110.25 per month or £25,323 per year (approximately $31,500 annually) without having to work.

How many professional jobs in Indonesia offer a salary at that level? It has been discussed previously on another thread, a qualified English teacher, a native speaker in Indonesia will typically get paid less than Rp20m pm. (approximately $14,679.557 annually). A lecturer, professor with a few decades of work experience in Indonesia earn less than Rp15m per month.

With this benefit system, in their own country, a person could essentially spend their days playing video games, watching TV, going to the gym while receiving that amount of money for free every single month.

In case of foreign labourer in Indonesia, would any rational person choose to work as a labourer in Indonesia earning around Rp5 million per month, if they could get much higher than that and they don’t need to work?

Benefit cap

There is a limit on the total amount of benefit that most people aged 16 to under State Pension age can get - benefits affected, benefit cap amount.

www.gov.uk

	Per week	Per month
If you’re in a couple	£486.98	£2,110.25
If you’re a single parent and your children live with you	£486.98	£2,110.25
If you’re a single adult	£326.29	£1,413.92

 

[harryopal1]

A major complicating factor in all this is that of language. For example, if you are a Chinese project manager, life is so much easier if your underlings understand the language. This then goes all the way down the line to the simplest jobs. When there is confusion resulting from difficult communication, further compounded by cultural misunderstandings it can make a huge difference in the speed of the project. There is also the possibility of triad or corrupt groups making money from having the foreign worker pay for the job and skimming money at every step of the project. This kind of corruption can happen in most big projects whatever the nationality.

Not to mention the reality of trade skills. It seems that anyone with a motorbike and a handful of tools an call themselves an electrician, mechanic, builder or whatever.

 

[Shadrach]

A major complicating factor in all this is that of language. For example, if you are a Chinese project manager, life is so much easier if your underlings understand the language. This then goes all the way down the line to the simplest jobs. When there is confusion resulting from difficult communication, further compounded by cultural misunderstandings it can make a huge difference in the speed of the project. There is also the possibility of triad or corrupt groups making money from having the foreign worker pay for the job and skimming money at every step of the project. This kind of corruption can happen in most big projects whatever the nationality.

Not to mention the reality of trade skills. It seems that anyone with a motorbike and a handful of tools an call themselves an electrician, mechanic, builder or whatever.

That part is so true about Triads and such controlling people. Even in America people come from Asia, Mexico, South America, Etc,for the promise of a good job, when these cruel bosses take their passports, and make the people work inhumane hours, under inhumane conditions, for sometimes years, with little to no pay. This situations are hard to detect and for the authorities to put a stop to them.
And for the reality of trade skills, where I live now, my bathroom had no ventilation, and the walls were turning black with mold, until I had to push the management here for days to do something about it. So they hired these workers from Java, that are continuously doing horrible work. They put in a wooden framed window, and painted the frame without taping the glass, so of course when finished, the glass had stains all over it that can't be removed. And they scrapped the mold off the walls, then repainted without using a waterproof primer coat first, so after only one week, the paint was bubbling off and the mold was returning. One Week! They are redoing the job again now, and I'm sure the finished work will be subpar!
This is because the boss is a Cheap Ass and hired these unskilled laborers!
They don't give a damn, and will have to repeat this all again soon, just to save a penny now. Crazy!