Is indonesias pious democracy safe from Islamic extremism?

[William King]

Interesting article, particularly as this paragraph contradicts what DaninAceh used to say on the other forum. (Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading his posts and insights, i learn from his posts, but I do not always agree with them)

https://theconversation.com/is-indonesias-pious-democracy-safe-from-islamic-extremism-79239

Data from a global network of social scientists, the World Values Survey, show that in 2006 the overwhelming majority of Indonesians did not want a government in which religious leaders tell people how to vote. More recent data suggest not much has changed. A poll conducted in May 2017shows most Indonesians oppose replacement of the constitution with a caliphate. More than 80 percent oppose IS, and less than 3 percent support the goals of IS, according to recent data from a research and consulting firm based in Jakarta. In other words, most Indonesians, a majority of whom are Muslim, do not want to live in a caliphate.

 

[fastpitch17]

That fits with what I have found just talking to people. No one I spoke with concerning this matter has ever said they want a religious government or religious leaders from any faith telling them who they can and can not vote for. Just the opposite. Of course, most of the people I converse with regarding this are educated or in the process of their education.

 

[Anglian]

Yes Dan does some very interesting posts but I don't know anyone here who wants a caliphate, why would they, I think Dan underestimates the Saudi influence, 1% is actually many when you think the size of them, take the main mosque in KL it's huge and has great crowds on Fridays, so 1% can have a great influence, remember the Nazis, they started in one beer hall, see where that led

 

[Nimbus]

While it's true that most Muslims in Indonesia follow the Shafi'i school, predicting their behavior based on that is about as accurate as predicting a Christian's behavior based on his denomination, like Baptist or Methodist.

There is so much more to Indonesian Muslims than the Shafi'i school. I dare say whether a Muslim belongs to Muhammadiyah or NU is far more relevant.

 

[Dan]

Interesting article, particularly as this paragraph contradicts what DaninAceh used to say on the other forum. (Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading his posts and insights, i learn from his posts, but I do not always agree with them)

I'll be happy to be wrong in this case.

Two points of criticism. First, how was the question asked to respondents? The Pew Research data simply asked them if would support switching to a shari'a compliant government. This one appears to ask them if they support the ISIS khilafa. They may still overwhelmingly approve of a shari'a compliant government "what could be better than Allah's law?", they may just be opposed to how ISIS has implemented it. The researchers appear to have played on national loyalty and a well-known aversion of local Muslims to ISIS.

The other point of criticism is Saiful Mujani Research and Consulting. I'm a bit more trusting of Pew Research, but I suppose that's all just brand recognition.

The proof will really be in how local areas implement elements of the shari'a and how Indonesians vote. It's compelling evidence to me that religious political parties continue to fare poorly.

From what I can see, most Indonesians don't see a disconnect between the political ideology and implementation of the shari'a. That's the trojan horse.

 

[Dan]

While it's true that most Muslims in Indonesia follow the Shafi'i school, predicting their behavior based on that is about as accurate as predicting a Christian's behavior based on his denomination, like Baptist or Methodist.

There is so much more to Indonesian Muslims than the Shafi'i school. I dare say whether a Muslim belongs to Muhammadiyah or NU is far more relevant.

I don't really couch that in terms of it being about lay people, my emphasis is always on the fact that the jurists they listen to are experts in that brand of fiqh. News articles will frequently talk about NU or Muhammadiyah being friendly, tolerant or otherwise *regime approved*. My point is that their jurists do not deviate from their roots and we shouldn't really expect them to.

Muslims in Indonesia are as they are because of distance from Islam's heartland. That historical distance has allowed Indonesians, as in much of the rest of the Islamic world, to pepper their expression of Islam with local beliefs, syncretism. We are presently in an era of Islamic revival. This has been fueled by the spread of information technology and a reaction of the ulema to a rapidly liberalizing world. These things are cyclical, I would argue that Indonesia has experienced this before.

Unfortunately, I suspect it will experience it yet again some day.

 

[Dan]

Also, I would urge everyone not to go to Saiful Mujani Research and Consulting's homepage. It appears to be hacked at this moment and possibly distributing malware or viruses. I tried to go there to look into their data and how it was collected and surprise! It produced a fake blue screen of death urging me to click links.

I'll stick with Pew Research for the time being.