Indonesia set to introduce strict new law banning sex outside of marriage

[Nimbus]

So, the women is the bitch and the man is the hero?

If you're not blind on your eyes you also have to disrespect the married man who goes with another women.

What you completely miss are the young couples, 20 years old, having a boyfriend or girlfriend. What are they supposed to do in their young age??? Do you really thing its not 'gatal'???

This law is criminalising a whole young generation, also all open minded people, no matter what religion they believe in.

This law is just another step back in the development of Indonesia, back to dark times like in Syria, Iran Irak. All those countries are busted because of the mis use of one religion.

I don't want to go into details about what happens in those countries, but Indonesia has to take care about its development, otherwise the country and its modern society will face dark times.

Did I say anywhere that the man is the hero? I would appreciate it if you don’t put words into my mouth. You were replying to a post about wanita simpanan, and how they deserve freedom. I specifically say that they don’t deserve jail time, but I’m not gonna defend them.

One of my late uncles had a second woman. She knew the deal, yet she went with it anyway. It posed a tremendous hardship to my aunt and cousin, so as far as I’m concerned he was a bastard and the side chick a bitch.

 

[Nimbus]

Actually, the preset law allows putting the cheating spouse in jail.

And giving these rights by the new law to the kids and parents is extreme an overreach. Parents can be single, widowed, separated from kids, and still reported by children if they live with somebody else. Children can be adults, separated, with different religions, and reported by parents.

Orwell, Indonesian style.

The previous law was the equivalent to U.S. disorderly conduct laws, which is a “rubber article” that the police can use against anybody for just about anything.

I actually agree that this law is an overreach, but I’m not a typical Indonesian. As I said, the vast majority of Indonesians have no issue with it.

 

[Nimbus]

Don't you think that this is a false argument? The police/community could raid hotels/houses even without cohabitation being a criminal offense, based on moral clauses and disturbance of the public order.

Now, when cohabitation/adultery/out-of-wedlock is illegal and criminalized (no matter who has the right to report it) and also immoral, there is no reason why the police/community would not raid hotels/houses, again, based on moral clauses and disturbance of the public order, because that is what is going on when you are breaking the law (moral and public order is disturbed), or to check do you have written approval from parents or children for fornication (surat persetujuan perzinaan dari orang tua/anak), or to report you to your parents/children/spouse.

I’m not agreeing with them, I’m speculating about how the law came about, based on what I know about Indonesian legislators and their politics.

 

[fastpitch17]

The previous law was the equivalent to U.S. disorderly conduct laws, which is a “rubber article” that the police can use against anybody for just about anything.

I actually agree that this law is an overreach, but I’m not a typical Indonesian. As I said, the vast majority of Indonesians have no issue with it.

Indonesians seem to have support of laws but at the same time do not feel it affects them when they break them. I think we have seen this concerning some in the DPR especially who vote for laws that they were currently breaking.

I can't remember exactly but sometime around 10 years ago an article was published in maybe Vice, about a survey conducted by I believe GMU concerning marriages and sexual behavior. The survey said that something just greater than 60% of married men said they cheated on their spouse but at the same time, around 50% of married women said they cheated on theirs. Sorry, but I just don't have it in front of me so I can't quote it. I attributed this to non capability sexually probably because so many marriages were arranged by parents or just because they had no ideas going into a marriage about being compatable.

The thing is, from what I have learned is that there are many Indonesians who live two lives. That goody goody, I'm a good religious person outside while partaking in a lifestyle that the outside would condem. That same survey said a majority of married men wished their wives were more dominate but went on to clarify that social pressures make it impossible. And outside, within the laws, they support the laws that subject women to a lower value.

Over the years I had made it a point to look into the hidden aspect if social differences that exist here. Maybe my curious mind when it comes to cultures ever sence that time I received a degree in Anthropology primarily concerning culture. I have looked at and participated within sites, now blocked without a VPN, that relate to all types of socially unacceptable or fully illegal activities. Thousands of Indonesians belonging to nudist sites and discussions on how many form groups for their own private social gatherings indoor somewhere private. Strictly social nudity. Oh, you thought those high walls were only for security. There are fetish sites with loads of Indoneisans on them. Swinging sites abound with Indonesians. While one sees primarily males, there are a good number of females also. LBGQ sites are full. I am not talking about sites where some guy can go and look through a list of pictures but sites that have forums and discussions about particular lifestyles. Indonesians want to belong to areas with like minded people but the societies that surround them keep them hidden. There are no victims when you have consenting adults so they don't see how anyone is hurt if they keep it private. There definitely are millions here with open minds and free will at least until they get to their front door. Then the social restraints come into play. The pressures of religious persecutions weighes heavily on them.

 

[pantaiema]

Indonesians seem to have support of laws but at the same time do not feel it affects them when they break them. I think we have seen this concerning some in the DPR especially who vote for laws that they were currently breaking.

This is just one of the recent example involving scandal among High Ranking Indonesian Police General, who supposed to be policing the law.

High-Ranking Indonesian Police Turn On Each Other

High-Ranking Indonesian Police Turn On Each Other

www.expatindo.org

Also, it is widely known the former Indonesian President, Suharto and the member of his families had affairs with a few Indonesian celebrities. But I am not blaming them as they are just humans being. Many other people, including those who have drafted and approved this law, ourselves might have done the same things in the past.

 

[Nimbus]

Indonesians seem to have support of laws but at the same time do not feel it affects them when they break them. I think we have seen this concerning some in the DPR especially who vote for laws that they were currently breaking.

I can't remember exactly but sometime around 10 years ago an article was published in maybe Vice, about a survey conducted by I believe GMU concerning marriages and sexual behavior. The survey said that something just greater than 60% of married men said they cheated on their spouse but at the same time, around 50% of married women said they cheated on theirs. Sorry, but I just don't have it in front of me so I can't quote it. I attributed this to non capability sexually probably because so many marriages were arranged by parents or just because they had no ideas going into a marriage about being compatable.

The thing is, from what I have learned is that there are many Indonesians who live two lives. That goody goody, I'm a good religious person outside while partaking in a lifestyle that the outside would condem. That same survey said a majority of married men wished their wives were more dominate but went on to clarify that social pressures make it impossible. And outside, within the laws, they support the laws that subject women to a lower value.

Over the years I had made it a point to look into the hidden aspect if social differences that exist here. Maybe my curious mind when it comes to cultures ever sence that time I received a degree in Anthropology primarily concerning culture. I have looked at and participated within sites, now blocked without a VPN, that relate to all types of socially unacceptable or fully illegal activities. Thousands of Indonesians belonging to nudist sites and discussions on how many form groups for their own private social gatherings indoor somewhere private. Strictly social nudity. Oh, you thought those high walls were only for security. There are fetish sites with loads of Indoneisans on them. Swinging sites abound with Indonesians. While one sees primarily males, there are a good number of females also. LBGQ sites are full. I am not talking about sites where some guy can go and look through a list of pictures but sites that have forums and discussions about particular lifestyles. Indonesians want to belong to areas with like minded people but the societies that surround them keep them hidden. There are no victims when you have consenting adults so they don't see how anyone is hurt if they keep it private. There definitely are millions here with open minds and free will at least until they get to their front door. Then the social restraints come into play. The pressures of religious persecutions weighes heavily on them.

Decades ago there was a survey by a magazine showing about 30% of men having extramarital affairs. Several years ago a survey by justdating.com puts the figure at 40% for Indonesians, with women having a 10% lead from men.

But, you need to be careful with surveys, because they tend to have selection bias. People who sign up for a website called justdating are far more likely to be looking for an affair. Readers of a cosmopolitan magazine probably don’t represent Indonesians in general.

Having said that, I’m fairly certain that the incidence of extramarital relationships is higher than 10%. Societal norms may be different in Indonesia, but Indonesians in general are just as horny as anybody. I got a group of friends from high school, all boys, who talk about prostitutes all day long.

Think of the loud adzan from masjids. In private I think a good chunk of people find it excessive, but if you ask them in public nobody will admit it. The vast majority of people will say publicly that they disagree with extramarital affairs, while many are engaging in it privately. This two-faced nature of Indonesian life should come as no surprise to anybody who has lived in Indonesia for any length of time. There’s a popular song from the 70s saying “Dunia ini panggung sandiwara”, the world is a theater stage.

 

[rabbit_39]

What about tourists who have a short-term Indonesian girlfriend (or boyfriend) or even a one night stand with an Indonesian (or even prior to the act being executed) and have the "parent" or "child" barge in the room and demanding money from the tourist or they'd get turned in to the cops?

 

[rabbit_39]

Think of the loud adzan from masjids. In private I think a good chunk of people find it excessive, but if you ask them in public nobody will admit it.

To add to this, no one would admit they are against the loud mosque noises because people have gone to jail for it. even saying it in a private conversation (not in a public forum).

 

[Helpful Herbert]

What about tourists who have a short-term Indonesian girlfriend (or boyfriend) or even a one night stand with an Indonesian (or even prior to the act being executed) and have the "parent" or "child" barge in the room and demanding money from the tourist or they'd get turned in to the cops?

I used to hear stories of this happening occasionally 10+ years ago. It could also be done under the old law, so no real change.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

To add to this, no one would admit they are against the loud mosque noises because people have gone to jail for it. even saying it in a private conversation (not in a public forum).

I have heard Indonesians complain about it in private conversations, even some Muslim ones. The real muslim countries like UAE, Malaysia seem to manage without poor quality speakers at 110Db on every street corner, so it is just an incorrect (haram) interpretation of the religion, which due to low education levels and a general lack of confidence in speaking to authority has gone uncorrected in Indonesia. It is also a local political issue - being in charge of the local mosque and being able to deafen residents on a daily basis is a signal of pure power, knowing that no-one can challenge you must be very addictive. If they turned off most of the speakers, people would quickly forget who is in charge (like in E Europe under communism, they had speakers all round the villages chanting pro-communist slogans, no-one missed them once turned off).

 

[fastpitch17]

What about tourists who have a short-term Indonesian girlfriend (or boyfriend) or even a one night stand with an Indonesian (or even prior to the act being executed) and have the "parent" or "child" barge in the room and demanding money from the tourist or they'd get turned in to the cops?

Would they not also be sujecting the offspring to arrest also? Of course, the tourist would panic and pay before thinking, hey, wait. You could go beyond that and a ring of girls picking up tourist with the promise of sex end up being interupted by a male or female claiming they are family demanding money or they go to prison. I think that would be what would probably happen.

 

[fastpitch17]

I have heard Indonesians complain about it in private conversations, even some Muslim ones. The real muslim countries like UAE, Malaysia seem to manage without poor quality speakers at 110Db on every street corner, so it is just an incorrect (haram) interpretation of the religion, which due to low education levels and a general lack of confidence in speaking to authority has gone uncorrected in Indonesia. It is also a local political issue - being in charge of the local mosque and being able to deafen residents on a daily basis is a signal of pure power, knowing that no-one can challenge you must be very addictive. If they turned off most of the speakers, people would quickly forget who is in charge (like in E Europe under communism, they had speakers all round the villages chanting pro-communist slogans, no-one missed them once turned off).

It's all about control. Everything they do is to control others.

 

[Nimbus]

To add to this, no one would admit they are against the loud mosque noises because people have gone to jail for it. even saying it in a private conversation (not in a public forum).

Unfortunately it depends on who you are. People in my parents’ kompleks can get away with insisting on low volume speakers, because they built the mosque and hired the administrators. If you’re an outsider all hell can break loose.

 

[Nimbus]

What about tourists who have a short-term Indonesian girlfriend (or boyfriend) or even a one night stand with an Indonesian (or even prior to the act being executed) and have the "parent" or "child" barge in the room and demanding money from the tourist or they'd get turned in to the cops?

If they’re using articles 411 & 412, they are penalizing their own parent or child. Since the plaintiff can only be a parent or a child, the defendant can only be the child or the parent. Technically the tourist has no legal plaintiff.

 

[Teabag]

If they’re using articles 411 & 412, they are penalizing their own parent or child. Since the plaintiff can only be a parent or a child, the defendant can only be the child or the parent. Technically the tourist has no legal plaintiff.

I wonder how many tourists do not come again to Indonesia because of this law.

Now you can argue, that no one needs the tourists and their western attitude, but speak ones to the people who are living from this industrie, they see it different.

After nearly beeing connected 30 Years to Indonesia, I still can not really understand the doubel moral in this country. The more serious they appear, the worse they are at night, in there privat area, with closed window shutters.

 

[pantaiema]

If they’re using articles 411 & 412, they are penalizing their own parent or child. Since the plaintiff can only be a parent or a child, the defendant can only be the child or the parent. Technically the tourist has no legal plaintiff.

I am not quite sure about this. The law is about committing crime of having sex outside marriage. There are limits on who can report people of this bonking law. e.g. parents, spouses or children of suspected offenders. But reporting on something, is different with the one who are committing crime. If these family members are filing up the report, both including the tourists are committing a crime for having sex outside marriage. Yes the child, spouse is also committing crime but it does not mean the tourists have no legal plaintiff.

As other people concerns, there are plenty of rooms for extortion coming from criminals by setting up a clip join. They might be posing as parents, spouses or children of suspected offenders aiming to extort money. They might not be necessarily the genuine family members that could report sex outside marriage. But they might be a group of clip join artists aiming to extort money.

 

[pantaiema]

What about tourists who have a short-term Indonesian girlfriend (or boyfriend) or even a one night stand with an Indonesian (or even prior to the act being executed) and have the "parent" or "child" barge in the room and demanding money from the tourist or they'd get turned in to the cops?

A short-term girlfriend (or boyfriend) or even a one night stand is not uncommon everywhere in the world, including Indonesia. This has happened in Jalan Jaksa in Central Jakarta, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jalan_Jaksa
Other similar tourist attractions such as Malioboro in Yogjakarta, Poppie's Lanes in Kuta/Legian in Bali.

Other regions, cities where there are a lot of mining, oil Industries, foreign funded projects with a lot of foreign workers presence. A few to name, Balikpapan in East Kalimantan, Soroako in South Sulawesi, Mimika District in Papua Province. Not to mention Jakarta.

Moreover, it is a general knowledge almost anywhere in the world, people are having sex before they are getting married. But not uncommon it will end up with happy ending where both are finally getting married, have beloved family, have mixed race children which some of them are becoming celebrities, stars in TV serials, Soap Opera, Singers, which many of Indonesian enjoy to watch. Indonesia will be missing this sort of things by moving backward in implementing the law which is no longer fit in the modern society.

Interfaith marriage already illegal in Indonesia as the execution of a marriage, needs to be conducted according to the rules of religion. Similarly , Sharia was alread implemented in Aceh Province, now sex outside marriage and it keep moving backward. What might come next ??

 

[Pak Tani]

The vast majority of people will say publicly that they disagree with extramarital affairs, while many are engaging in it privately. This two-faced nature of Indonesian life should come as no surprise to anybody who has lived in Indonesia for any length of time.

Since Indonesians are a religious people; to say this more aptly:

The spirit indeed is willing,

but the flesh is weak.

 

[Nimbus]

I wonder how many tourists do not come again to Indonesia because of this law.

Now you can argue, that no one needs the tourists and their western attitude, but speak ones to the people who are living from this industrie, they see it different.

After nearly beeing connected 30 Years to Indonesia, I still can not really understand the doubel moral in this country. The more serious they appear, the worse they are at night, in there privat area, with closed window shutters.

If they are sex tourists, Indonesia is probably not the best destination. Thailand is more renowned for it. Regular tourists shouldn’t be affected, but the clickbait news probably drives some of them away. I think if people can prove that the number of tourists actually dips because of this law, they may change it.

 

[Nimbus]

I am not quite sure about this. The law is about committing crime of having sex outside marriage. There are limits on who can report people of this bonking law. e.g. parents, spouses or children of suspected offenders. But reporting on something, is different with the one who are committing crime. If these family members are filing up the report, both including the tourists are committing a crime for having sex outside marriage. Yes the child, spouse is also committing crime but it does not mean the tourists have no legal plaintiff.

As other people concerns, there are plenty of rooms for extortion coming from criminals by setting up a clip join. They might be posing as parents, spouses or children of suspected offenders aiming to extort money. They might not be necessarily the genuine family members that could report sex outside marriage. But they might be a group of clip join artists aiming to extort money.

The judge may interpret the articles to cover the unreported party, but for sure the spouse/child/parent will be a suspect. It’s not possible to drag the tourist into court without the reported party.

I agree that any new law in Indonesia is yet another avenue for extortion by corrupt cops.