Indonesia set to introduce strict new law banning sex outside of marriage

[Samoerai]

Secularism is neutral. Its application, seen by you as a universal good, is only as good as the nation-state's/regime's intentions. It happens to be an effective way to govern a modern society when used to protect religious minorities. China is among the world's most secular nations. It routinely rounds up people with "undesirable" religious beliefs, closes their places of worship, edits their holy books, and sees their faiths as ideological competitors rather than a protected institution as in the United States.

China also routinely tortures and executes thousands of people. If what you wrote were true, China would be an enlightened beacon of secular human progress. Instead, secularism is used as a weapon to oppress all ideologies other than the state approved propaganda.

"Progressive" nations with lofty secular ideals have their own taboos, just as Muslims in Indonesia do. A lesbian in Norway is facing up to three years in jail not because of her identity as a lesbian, but because she "misgendered" a transgender woman and said he couldn't be a lesbian. She didn't harass him, she didn't cause any injury as best as the average person can see. But, because the transgender woman represents a protected class in modern, progressed, and thoroughly secular Western societies a taboo around this issue has crept into the legal framework.

And this isn't some isolated case. Taboos placing limits on free speech, i.e. Western blasphemy, crop up every bit as much as they do in Indonesia. Look, Indonesia has its opportunities. It ain't perfect, far from it. Even I don't think they should criminalize what is a civil matter. But I also don't think this makes them backwards.

Is this a civil matter only? There are many policies and even laws in the Western world that might be considered a civil matter, like using a safety belt, wearing a helmet, speed limits .. smoking.

 

[Dan]

Is this a civil matter only? There are many policies and even laws in the Western world that might be considered a civil matter, like using a safety belt, wearing a helmet, speed limits .. smoking.

From the perspective of an American (i.e. me), it's between the spouses or the consenting adults having sex. If someone is injured by an adulterous relationship, it isn't the society that is injured but the individual spouse/family/children. Therefore, it's a matter for civil law where damages may be awarded in compensation.

I'll let the Indonesian voices in the thread speak for Indonesian perspectives on whether or not adultery constitutes a criminal offense in the eyes of the wider Indonesian public. For my very religiously conservative family, it is indeed a criminal offense.

 

[Nimbus]

Indonesian society is conservative, and I feel it has become more so in the past couple of decades.

Living together outside marriage is one of the worst ‘aib’ (shame) you can bring to your Indonesian family. My mom used the Dutch term samenleven, which is softer than the colloquial “kumpul kebo”, literally means buffalo gathering. It’s viewed as mating like animals; that should give you an idea of how much people despise it. My parents would legit disown me if I choose this path.

Not too long ago people in the kampung had a habit of breaking down your door if they suspected you of cohabitation, then they’d parade you practically naked to the lurah, where they’d arrange a shotgun wedding.

Do I agree with this law? No. But unfortunately I’m in the minority. Very few Indonesians think that kumpul kebo is tolerable, and those who do usually keep their opinion to themselves.

 

[Teabag]

Indonesian society is conservative, and I feel it has become more so in the past couple of decades.

definitely !

My wife brought in her youth time a dog with the angkot and went jalan jalan around the city of Bandung. Several years ago, I was sitting in a resto and having a beer.

Nowadays that is all impossible, even they formed a 'sex law'.

The indonesian society (not the chinese folks, they are busy making money) is on a down path, the religion becomes more and more important, the loud speaker of the mosques are always more and louder.

I always carry a 'run away' bag in my car making me able to hop on the next flight if they turn to more radical, especially around coming presidents election

 

[Helpful Herbert]

You're saying it's impossible to sit in a restaurant in Bandung and have a beer? Pets on Angkots, I've never seen one. I'm sure a small dog in a bag would be fine. I could understand big dogs being banned in a small space like that.
Agree about the mosque loudspeakers. Very very annoying but not enough to make me run for the airport!
Not sure how they will make the next election about religion, as all the candidates are in the pro-islam camp anyway.

 

[Teabag]

You're saying it's impossible to sit in a restaurant in Bandung and have a beer?

At a bar at Braga Street you got a beer, pre covid. Now, most of the bars are closed, bankrupt, just a few food stands are open.

Best location for buying a beer is the 'Toko Taurus Liquor Store' at Jalan Naripan. There you get all and you can drink the beer at home.

At the 'Green Kosambi Tower' they opened a resto now and they do serve beers too. I've asked why you are allowed to sell beer and the answer was: We're not a resto but an Apartement Building....

 

[Hawk256]

It is important to realize that any idea we may have as an individual is just that, an idea. One person's opinion is not going to always line up with another persons. Whose opinion is superior? The answer is of course who you ask. Regardless of my personal opinion, if the majority of a society doesn't think something is appropriate there is probably a reason.

 

[Hawk256]

At a bar at Braga Street you got a beer, pre covid. Now, most of the bars are closed, bankrupt, just a few food stands are open.

Best location for buying a beer is the 'Toko Taurus Liquor Store' at Jalan Naripan. There you get all and you can drink the beer at home.

At the 'Green Kosambi Tower' they opened a resto now and they do serve beers too. I've asked why you are allowed to sell beer and the answer was: We're not a resto but an Apartement Building....

If beer is that important to you, you may be in the wrong country. Just saying.

 

[Will_M]

Pizza e birra, humming bird cafe, Bilbao brasserie,Gijon steakhouse, Apero Cafe, holywings paskal all sell beer in Bandung. Not sure on braga, when ever I drive through it looks like quite a few bars still open though?

 

[Samoerai]

It is important to realize that any idea we may have as an individual is just that, an idea. One person's opinion is not going to always line up with another persons. Whose opinion is superior? The answer is of course who you ask. Regardless of my personal opinion, if the majority of a society doesn't think something is appropriate there is probably a reason.

Yes, and this law might not even be based on religious grounds ( is this correct English?). Maybe based just on the idea to protect Indonesian women. To prohibit the exploitation of women in Indonesia. Example: there are many men who are married, but have hidden another woman (perempuan simpanan).

 

[centurion]

Yes, and this law might not even be based on religious grounds ( is this correct English?). Maybe based just on the idea to protect Indonesian women. To prohibit the exploitation of women in Indonesia. Example: there are many men who are married, but have hidden another woman (perempuan simpanan).

Or maybe to protect men from evil tricky women that are seducing them and taking them from their families. I am sure that the legislators had a good and noble reason.

 

[Nimbus]

Or maybe to protect men from evil tricky women that are seducing them and taking them from their families. I am sure that the legislators had a good and noble reason.

Yeah, “good and noble reason” are not the first words that come to mind when I think about Indonesian legislators. I think this law is a compromise, hardliners want to outlaw it entirely, but others (understandably) don’t want the police to just arrest everybody in hotels without a marriage license. That would be really bad for tourism. Therefore, they make it so only your immediate family can press charges. Tourists wouldn’t be affected, because most don’t have a family here wanting to take them to court for it.

 

[Nimbus]

Yes, and this law might not even be based on religious grounds ( is this correct English?). Maybe based just on the idea to protect Indonesian women. To prohibit the exploitation of women in Indonesia. Example: there are many men who are married, but have hidden another woman (perempuan simpanan).

I personally think several legislators have an axe to grind, probably wanting to prosecute a cheating spouse or punish a disobedient child. Of course, it got support from religious hardliners.

In the past if your husband had a side chick, there was nothing you can do about it but make drama. Today you can actually put him in jail.

 

[Teabag]

Yes, and this law might not even be based on religious grounds ( is this correct English?). Maybe based just on the idea to protect Indonesian women. To prohibit the exploitation of women in Indonesia. Example: there are many men who are married, but have hidden another woman (perempuan simpanan).

To protect Indonesian woman??? From what???

Men who want to fuck here?

What about the concept that women can think by them self and dont need to be 'protected' by overruling men?

Thats deepest stone age thinking and also seen in more radical countries like the arab area.

So women emanzipation is not in your mind ????

 

[Nimbus]

To protect Indonesian woman??? From what???

Men who want to fuck here?

What about the concept that women can think by them self and dont need to be 'protected' by overruling men?

Thats deepest stone age thinking and also seen in more radical countries like the arab area.

So women emanzipation is not in your mind ????

I don’t know about you, but I have no respect for women who knowingly get into a relationship with a married man. I don’t think they should go to jail for it, but I’m not gonna go out of my way to defend them.

 

[fastpitch17]

Yes, and this law might not even be based on religious grounds ( is this correct English?). Maybe based just on the idea to protect Indonesian women. To prohibit the exploitation of women in Indonesia. Example: there are many men who are married, but have hidden another woman (perempuan simpanan).

If they really wanted to protect women and not exploit them they would enforce the one wife rules and not turn a blind eye to permissions set down in religion. If they wanted to protect women they would enforce the child marriage laws and not alow a religious based court to ignore it. They would reach out to every size community and get rid of the family arranged marriages where many girls are basically sold so parents don't need to feed them since they are not a boy who is expected to take care of parents when they age.

Women are exploited here left and right. Their value has been set down in religion, not culture. The only way it is going to change is by women standing up and taking charge.

 

[centurion]

I personally think several legislators have an axe to grind, probably wanting to prosecute a cheating spouse or punish a disobedient child. Of course, it got support from religious hardliners.

In the past if your husband had a side chick, there was nothing you can do about it but make drama. Today you can actually put him in jail.

Actually, the preset law allows putting the cheating spouse in jail.

And giving these rights by the new law to the kids and parents is extreme an overreach. Parents can be single, widowed, separated from kids, and still reported by children if they live with somebody else. Children can be adults, separated, with different religions, and reported by parents.

Orwell, Indonesian style.

 

[centurion]

think this law is a compromise, hardliners want to outlaw it entirely, but others (understandably) don’t want the police to just arrest everybody in hotels without a marriage license.

Don't you think that this is a false argument? The police/community could raid hotels/houses even without cohabitation being a criminal offense, based on moral clauses and disturbance of the public order.

Now, when cohabitation/adultery/out-of-wedlock is illegal and criminalized (no matter who has the right to report it) and also immoral, there is no reason why the police/community would not raid hotels/houses, again, based on moral clauses and disturbance of the public order, because that is what is going on when you are breaking the law (moral and public order is disturbed), or to check do you have written approval from parents or children for fornication (surat persetujuan perzinaan dari orang tua/anak), or to report you to your parents/children/spouse.

 

[Hawk256]

I was curious as to the average Indonesian thoughts about this law. So far everyone I told about the new law replied with "Good" and most were women. They don't seem to be outraged so I'm not sure that everyone needs to be outraged for them.

 

[Teabag]

I don’t know about you, but I have no respect for women who knowingly get into a relationship with a married man. I don’t think they should go to jail for it, but I’m not gonna go out of my way to defend them.

So, the women is the bitch and the man is the hero?

If you're not blind on your eyes you also have to disrespect the married man who goes with another women.

What you completely miss are the young couples, 20 years old, having a boyfriend or girlfriend. What are they supposed to do in their young age??? Do you really thing its not 'gatal'???

This law is criminalising a whole young generation, also all open minded people, no matter what religion they believe in.

This law is just another step back in the development of Indonesia, back to dark times like in Syria, Iran Irak. All those countries are busted because of the mis use of one religion.

I don't want to go into details about what happens in those countries, but Indonesia has to take care about its development, otherwise the country and its modern society will face dark times.