Indonesia set to introduce strict new law banning sex outside of marriage

[harryopal1]

I agree that any new law in Indonesia is yet another avenue for extortion by corrupt cops.

Never mind the sex but I think the new laws means you cannot make negative aspersions about Indonesian institutions.... including the police.

 

[harryopal1]

Just watching iNews Siang TV and a report showing a raid after reports from people about unmarried couples staying at a low cost accommodation. Police go around knocking on every door to check on couples and if unmarried being taken away. Despite all the assurances that tourists will not be affected by the new laws they should have mentioned as long as you are not poor and staying in less than an expensive hotel.

 

[centurion]

Just watching iNews Siang TV and a report showing a raid after reports from people about unmarried couples staying at a low cost accommodation. Police go around knocking on every door to check on couples and if unmarried being taken away. Despite all the assurances that tourists will not be affected by the new laws they should have mentioned as long as you are not poor and staying in less than an expensive hotel.

And that is happening while out-of-marriage sex is still legal. Imagine when it becomes illegal in 3 years.

 

[pantaiema]

Just watching iNews Siang TV and a report showing a raid after reports from people about unmarried couples staying at a low cost accommodation. Police go around knocking on every door to check on couples and if unmarried being taken away. Despite all the assurances that tourists will not be affected by the new laws they should have mentioned as long as you are not poor and staying in less than an expensive hotel.

A a few decades ago there were a lobby from hospitality industries in Indonesia to suspend the licence for low cost budget accommodations arguing there are very little benefit to the Indonesian economy. This Hospitality industries lobbying members are mainly the big money, venture capital investing in four- five stars hotels. It might be the same group who lobby (euphemism of ?) the government during the COVID-19 pandemic with COVID-19 testing and quarantine hotels business.
Fortunately they failed. Just imagine what would have happened to Indonesian economy when they successfully persuaded the decision makers. You would not see a lot of of budget accommodations such as you could see in Poppie's Lanes in Kuta/Legian in Bali, Malioboro areas in Yogjakarta, Jalan Jaksa area in Central Jakarta. There would be less tourists wanted to visit Indonesia which would decimate the small medium enterprises in hospitality industries.

 

[jstar]

As so often, not a lot will change. There still will be raids if they need money or if they get complaints or when they’re bored. Often in the cheap hotels that’s not even police but some uniformed neighborhood watch or vigilante. In most hotels the question about being married will not be asked, in some it will, depending what part of the country you’re in. As now. The hourly hotels will also not disappear, they have been operating in the twilight zone already.

 

[Dave70]

Hotel in Jambi raided by police. Police inspected each & every room for presence of illegal substance/weapons, prostitution and gambling activity). They found nothing except for one unmarried couple which they arrested (for staying together in one room).

 

[pantaiema]

Hotel in Jambi raided by police. Police inspected each & every room for presence of illegal substance/weapons, prostitution and gambling activity). They found nothing except for one unmarried couple which they arrested (for staying together in one room).

I raised this issue during a previous discussion about the cohabitation law when it was passed in parliament over a year ago.

Some people dismiss concerns, saying ahhhh it won't be enforced because Indonesia is a country with moderate, not extreme, religious views. However, what many fail to recognize is that while Indonesia might be considered moderate overall, there is a reasonable number of individuals who exploit religion for personal or political gain. Even if their numbers are relatively small, their vocal advocacy combined with general public apathy can create a substantial impact. Moreover, the fact that the law has already been enacted is critical. Whether or not local authorities choose to enforce it is a separate issue.

Other points worth noting is that

• Certain political factions in Indonesia are actively working to amend the constitution, particularly regarding the state ideology, Pancasila, which recognizes five official religions and embrace pluralism.
• There are a resonable number of religious boarding schools that do not embrace pluralism and continue to engage in indoctrination of children. Typically, children who enter these boarding schools come from poor backgrounds based on both entry criteria and financial mean, making them vulnerable for indoctrination and manipulation. If these students graduate from these boarding schools gain admission to prestigious state universities in Indonesia, it is likely due to political quotas rather than merit. This topic has already been discussed in this forum, where evidence was presented.

If these efforts and grassroots movements continue to keep moving forward, it may only be a matter of time before Indonesia turn to become a country similar to those of Afghanistan.

 

[Hawk256]

I raised this issue during a previous discussion about the cohabitation law when it was passed in parliament over a year ago.

Some people dismiss concerns, saying ahhhh it won't be enforced because Indonesia is a country with moderate, not extreme, religious views. However, what many fail to recognize is that while Indonesia might be considered moderate overall, there is a significant number of individuals who exploit religion for personal or political gain. Even if their numbers are relatively small, their vocal advocacy combined with general public apathy can create a substantial impact.

Moreover, the fact that the law has already been enacted is critical. Whether or not local authorities choose to enforce it is a separate issue.

Another point worth noting is that certain political factions in Indonesia are actively working to amend the constitution, particularly regarding the state ideology, Pancasila, which recognizes five official religions. If these efforts persist, it may only be a matter of time before Indonesia shifts toward becoming a country with policies resembling those of Afghanistan.

One single time this has been done and now it's an inevitable national problem? More than likely someone pissed off the local police and they wanted to make a statement.

 

[pantaiema]

One single time this has been done and now it's an inevitable national problem? More than likely someone pissed off the local police and they wanted to make a statement.

Based on the news, it seems that this group of policemen received authorization from their unit to carry out the raid.

Even if they didn't have official authorization, in my opinion, they could still conduct such raids during their work, provided they prioritize appropriately. As law enforcers, they have the authority to investigate any violations of the law.

I agree with the main concern here, where the policemen from other sector, cities, regents, etc might follow this example and potentially use it as leverage to extort money from hotel owners, people. The last thing hotel owners want is for their rooms to be raided, and exposed in the news. Such incidents could deter future guests, damaging the hotel's reputation.

What about the accommodation rental industry? They might start targeting Airbnb properties, rental accommodations, apartments, and similar setups. It's important to remember that they have the legal authority to conduct such raids whenever they see fit, as permitted by law.

 

[Shadrach]

Based on the news, it seems that this group of policemen received authorization from their unit to carry out the raid.

Even if they didn't have official authorization, in my opinion, they could still conduct such raids during their work, provided they prioritize appropriately. As law enforcers, they have the authority to investigate any violations of the law.

I agree with the main concern here, where the policemen from other sector, cities, regents, etc might follow this example and potentially use it as leverage to extort money from hotel owners, people. The last thing hotel owners want is for their rooms to be raided, and exposed in the news. Such incidents could deter future guests, damaging the hotel's reputation.

What about the accommodation rental industry? They might start targeting Airbnb properties, rental accommodations, apartments, and similar setups. It's important to remember that they have the legal authority to conduct such raids whenever they see fit, as permitted by law.

Is this law going to be implemented on tourist as well? There are many tourist that travel together, that are not married.

 

[pantaiema]

Is this law going to be implemented on tourist as well? There are many tourist that travel together, that are not married.

The cohabitation law does not distinguish between tourists and locals.

Even among Indonesians, there are instances where people, including students, live together without being married. The penalty is only enforced if a spouse, parent, or child files a complaint with the police.

The punishment could be up to one year in prison, but it seems unlikely that such sentences would be imposed. However, the law could be exploited by others, including the policemen, as a means to extort money.

 

[Bob]

I raised this issue during a previous discussion about the cohabitation law when it was passed in parliament over a year ago.

Some people dismiss concerns, saying ahhhh it won't be enforced because Indonesia is a country with moderate, not extreme, religious views. However, what many fail to recognize is that while Indonesia might be considered moderate overall, there is a reasonable number of individuals who exploit religion for personal or political gain. Even if their numbers are relatively small, their vocal advocacy combined with general public apathy can create a substantial impact. Moreover, the fact that the law has already been enacted is critical. Whether or not local authorities choose to enforce it is a separate issue.

Other points worth noting is that

• Certain political factions in Indonesia are actively working to amend the constitution, particularly regarding the state ideology, Pancasila, which recognizes five official religions and embrace pluralism.
• There are a resonable number of religious boarding schools that do not embrace pluralism and continue to engage in indoctrination of children. Typically, children who enter these boarding schools come from poor backgrounds based on both entry criteria and financial mean, making them vulnerable for indoctrination and manipulation. If these students graduate from these boarding schools gain admission to prestigious state universities in Indonesia, it is likely due to political quotas rather than merit. This topic has already been discussed in this forum, where evidence was presented.

If these efforts and grassroots movements continue to keep moving forward, it may only be a matter of time before Indonesia turn to become a country similar to those of Afghanistan.

What does the recent cohabitation law have to do with a hotel raid? Cohabitation is living together, which this doesn't appear to be. Such raids have been going on for years and years, long before the cohabitation law was enacted.

 

[Dave70]

Is this law going to be implemented on tourist as well? There are many tourist that travel together, that are not married.

I don't think this will ever happen in Bali, regardless, tourists don't bring their marriage certificate traveling abroad, so how to prove they are husband and wife?

 

[centurion]

I don't think this will ever happen in Bali, regardless, tourists don't bring their marriage certificate traveling abroad, so how to prove they are husband and wife?

Every decent couple has its own marriage certificate all the time. Not having it is a strong indication for fornication activities.

 

[centurion]

Hotel in Jambi raided by police. Police inspected each & every room for presence of illegal substance/weapons, prostitution and gambling activity). They found nothing except for one unmarried couple which they arrested (for staying together in one room).

Another complicated case solved.

 

[Shadrach]

Every decent couple has its own marriage certificate all the time. Not having it is a strong indication for fornication activities.

Who decides what's decent? You? Fornication is fun!

 

[centurion]

Who decides what's decent?

God or his representatives on the Earth.

 

[pantaiema]

What does the recent cohabitation law have to do with a hotel raid? Cohabitation is living together, which this doesn't appear to be. Such raids have been going on for years and years, long before the cohabitation law was enacted.

Indeed raids have been going on for years and years, long before the cohabitation law was enacted.

In the news above, and post #206 in relation newly introduce co-habitation law
"Hotel in Jambi raided by police. Police inspected each & every room for presence of illegal substance/weapons, prostitution and gambling activity). They found nothing except for one unmarried couple which they arrested (for staying together in one room)."

Before the introduction of the cohabitation law which is enacted which include sex outside of marriage, neither the police nor hotels (if applicable) had the authority to demand proof of marriage from individuals sharing a room, nor could law enforcement arrest anyone on the spot based solely on this. While referred to as the "cohabitation law" is the English translation, the law explicitly give power to law enforcers to act if tipped off by a spouse, parent, child, or group of people connected through family ties allegedly commuting adultery outside marriage. Is this distinction not clear now?

While there are existing laws addressing prostitution, they operate on a different level than the cohabitation, sex outside marriage law, which is why the latter was introduced. Additionally, this could set a precedent for conducting similar raids based on tips from those who do not like this sort of lifestyle involving family members.

While other nations are exploring the possibility of living on Mars, some countries seem to be regressing to the middle ages, regulating unnecessary things, very little benefit to society just because some radical group of people who are very vocal want it. Just to remind people there is already 'shariah law' in Aceh. If shariah law is implied theoretically the person committing adultery could be stoned to death in public

In my opinion, the only thing helps Indonesia's prosperity, set apart with the countries like Afghanistan or certain drought stricken, conflict ridden nations in Africa lies in Indonesia's wealth of natural resources. These include abundant minerals, mining assets, oil and gas reserves, tropical forests, marine resources, abundant of arable land.

 

[Shadrach]

God or his representatives on the Earth.

Oh yea, who decides God's representatives on Earth? I bet most likely they're all White old conservative Christian men? Does God speak down from Heaven and say who his representatives are?
I just love when people speak of a supreme being, no one can see, hear, feel, touch, etc. Is God a Man, Woman, White, Black,Brown skinned, Middle Eastern, Asian?

 

[pantaiema]

Oh yea, who decides God's representatives on Earth? I bet most likely they're all White old conservative Christian men? Does God speak down from Heaven and say who his representatives are?
I just love when people speak of a supreme being, no one can see, hear, feel, touch, etc. Is God a Man, Woman, White, Black,Brown skinned, Middle Eastern, Asian?

I am not sure whether you believe in the existence of God or not, but even if you don't, adopting a pre-emptive strategy might be wise. After all, the nature of life after death is something noone truly knows unless they are already dead. It does not matter whether they are conservative Christian, imam, Hindu / Buddhist priests, monk, pope, pastor, etc.

If there turns out to be no hell after death, you have little to lose. But what if there is?