Indonesia drafts law to ban sex outside marriage, contraception education.

dafluff

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From the article:

The new laws will also apply to foreigners. However, asked whether tourists in Indonesia could face jail for extramarital sex, Taufiqulhadi said: “No problem, as long as people don’t know.”

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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Ruserious

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It could (and probably will) be a short term PR disaster for Indonesia's tourist industry. The worldwide press loves stories like this.
 

Euc-

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Up next, all food and beverage must be halal. Going to be fun trying to order that halal sate babi.
Is this something you have proof that it is being talked about at a serious level or just your opinion/sarcasm?
 

Ruserious

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Also think about the loss of revenue for those thousands of small hotels that have popped up over the past few years that rely on the "bit on the side market".....oh no, the job losses could be in the millions! ha......
 

centurion

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Indonesia joining Brunei in tourism development.

Welcome to beautiful Thailand, welcome to beautiful Malaysia...
 

nd_eric_77

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centurion

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I cannot believe to myself that the country has gone to hell in just a couple of weeks beyond repair. KPK is derailed for good, new "progressive" laws are introduced, while Papua instability has a serious potential of wider conflict.
Next will be collapse of the tourism industry, further decrease of foreign investments and economic slowdown - already ongoing.
Foreign news coverage about Indonesia is now 90% negative.

If the voters knew that recent development would be like this, better they choose Prabowo. At least with him would be no disappointment, and maybe he would surprise positively in something.
 

Helpful Herbert

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To be fair news coverage about Indonesia has always been 90% negative, usually one of the following:
  • natural disaster
  • Aceh canes gay people or jails people for sitting on a motorbike the wrong way
  • terrorism-related
  • discrimination against minorities
  • alcohol ban
  • foreigners being executed or jailed for drug trafficking
The only positive story I can remember is about that disaster agency chap who sadly died recently
 

dafluff

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I cannot believe to myself that the country has gone to hell in just a couple of weeks beyond repair. KPK is derailed for good, new "progressive" laws are introduced, while Papua instability has a serious potential of wider conflict.
Next will be collapse of the tourism industry, further decrease of foreign investments and economic slowdown - already ongoing.
Foreign news coverage about Indonesia is now 90% negative.

If the voters knew that recent development would be like this, better they choose Prabowo. At least with him would be no disappointment, and maybe he would surprise positively in something.
Don't forget global disaster level forest fires due to government mismanagement and corruption.
 

gemima

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Coconuts published a nice RKUHP explainer article yesterday:

I didn't realize that whatever gets signed into law next week wont come into affect until 2022 - So I have 3 years to either get married/ become celibate/ get out of Indonesia (probably the latter if they are going down this path)
 

dafluff

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President Jokowi officially requested parliament to postpone confirmation of controversial #RKUHP bill.

Although good news, it is too early to be optimistic. The bill could still be adopted as is either by current parliament or the incoming parliament once the furor dies down. That was the strategy they used with the KPK bill revision. It was widely rejected a few years ago, then was fast tracked by a lame duck DPR.

 

jukung11

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I am not as familiar with the makeup of representation of Indonesian legislative branch that is voting on this. Why isn't there more protest from other groups of Indonesians? This is seems very Javacentric. Many eastern groups cohabitate prior to marriage. The bugis also have a different interpretation when it comes to gender and marriage. This is legislation is contrary to many Indonesian traditions.
 

Saffer

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I showed my wife this thread and we discussed it at length. It seems that the intent of the proposed law is to enforce and maintain a standard of morality, as to how this will actually be applied remains to be seen. Understandably, it does appear to be hypocritical of the authorities to portray a veneer of morality while practising corruption on almost every level.
Which brings me back to the point of intent, is such a law to the benefit of Indonesian society in general (Westerners) excluded, what would be the negatives? Do Indonesians, in general, agree with it?

My ideas on this topic come from lived experience in one of the most liberal progressive countries on earth. South Africa post-1994 is a proverbial poster child for Marxist/Communist policies, there is nothing save for paedophilia and bestiality that is not officially sanctioned and propagated. We have groups of feminists shutting down the stock exchange, all forms of corporal punishment outlawed (jail time for offending parents), a scourge of single mothers, a high rate of teen pregnancies and HIV transmission. My wife was extremely surprised (and distressed) to find that abortions on demand are freely available and advertised on posters everywhere. In addition, there is a very lax legal system that gives every advantage to criminals over victims. I could provide the reader with a litany of examples, but I think you get my point. In short, there are many "freedoms" but no true liberty.

It all started with a deliberate state-sponsored breakdown of the nuclear family and the attendant erosion of societal morals, resulting in the degeneracy we witness here daily. I suppose it could be argued that my idea of "degeneracy" is another mans "enlightenment" and each to their own, but when it borders on the near-pornographic and freely available to children, then I would have to draw the line. To me, it seems that the natural order of things are wilfully inverted. The idea that gender is a social construct, transsexualism is encouraged, feral children and teens running rampant does not indicate a strong society, on the contrary, it presents as a highly dysfunctional one.
From my understanding, this is exactly what Indonesia is trying to prevent, and if that is the intent, I fully support it.
 

gemima

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I showed my wife this thread and we discussed it at length. It seems that the intent of the proposed law is to enforce and maintain a standard of morality, as to how this will actually be applied remains to be seen. Understandably, it does appear to be hypocritical of the authorities to portray a veneer of morality while practising corruption on almost every level.
Which brings me back to the point of intent, is such a law to the benefit of Indonesian society in general (Westerners) excluded, what would be the negatives? Do Indonesians, in general, agree with it?

My ideas on this topic come from lived experience in one of the most liberal progressive countries on earth. South Africa post-1994 is a proverbial poster child for Marxist/Communist policies, there is nothing save for paedophilia and bestiality that is not officially sanctioned and propagated. We have groups of feminists shutting down the stock exchange, all forms of corporal punishment outlawed (jail time for offending parents), a scourge of single mothers, a high rate of teen pregnancies and HIV transmission. My wife was extremely surprised (and distressed) to find that abortions on demand are freely available and advertised on posters everywhere. In addition, there is a very lax legal system that gives every advantage to criminals over victims. I could provide the reader with a litany of examples, but I think you get my point. In short, there are many "freedoms" but no true liberty.

It all started with a deliberate state-sponsored breakdown of the nuclear family and the attendant erosion of societal morals, resulting in the degeneracy we witness here daily. I suppose it could be argued that my idea of "degeneracy" is another mans "enlightenment" and each to their own, but when it borders on the near-pornographic and freely available to children, then I would have to draw the line. To me, it seems that the natural order of things are wilfully inverted. The idea that gender is a social construct, transsexualism is encouraged, feral children and teens running rampant does not indicate a strong society, on the contrary, it presents as a highly dysfunctional one.
From my understanding, this is exactly what Indonesia is trying to prevent, and if that is the intent, I fully support it.
I think comparing what's happening in SA to Indonesia is wrong. The culture here is entirely different and the colonial hangovers here are very very different.
I feel that morality should be down to the individual and laws should be used to keep society functioning smoothly and safely.
The laws that they are proposing to enact wont improve the morality of Indonesia - they will just allow certain people to be easily targeted.
 

snpark

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Have to be married to each other or can just shag someone else's wife? It isn't clear
 

jukung11

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Which brings me back to the point of intent, is such a law to the benefit of Indonesian society in general (Westerners) excluded, what would be the negatives? Do Indonesians, in general, agree with it?
Your first posts where how you have a girlfriend (now wife) with 3 children. You both would be in jail. I realize you are newer to Indonesia, but the Indonesian criminal justice system sucks, especially for foreigners. This law could destroy your family and many others. Many of the families of eastern Indonesia from where your wife is from, cohabitate before marriage. It has the highest age of first marriage (almost 30 in some parts) than all of Indonesia. Another problem is how laws regarding sex and marriage are applied in Indonesia. From infidelity to prostitution, they are disproportionately applied more against women than men. Many divorced women (janda/widow) are considered undesirable for marriage in many Indonesian cultures. This will only subject them to more derision and powerlessness in Indonesian society.

A very serious social problem in Indonesia is forced marriage, many times underage. If parents find teens having sex, they often pressure the teens to get married, even if the teens are clearly too young to know the consequences. This law gives parents the ability to blackmail both teens into getting married with the threat of prison if they don't, even if the other family doesn't consent.

Another problem is police corruption in Indonesia. They frequently use any interpretation of laws as an excuse for a little kickback. Giving them power (and financial motivation) over people's sex lives is an invitation for an ultimate invasion of police powers. There are dozens of examples of the extrajudicial powers they already wield all over Indonesia, and now they will have additional cover of the legal system behind them on it.

This law would be detrimental on the family structures for many Indonesians. Indonesia doesn't need to criminalize relationships that don't follow the legal structure the government wants.

Being from South Africa, I believe you are missing some of the cultural context. For a while, the Saudi government has been spending billions of $ investing in religious institutions to promote their version of Islam in Indonesia. It is pretty open about it. You can read more about it in a lot of places.



It is shifting the culture away from traditional Indonesian ways towards more of a middle eastern interpretation of religion and society. Sex was traditionally a private or societal shame matter and now it is becoming a public and legal matter.
 

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