I love their logic!

Dave70

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Sorry, while the New York Times is not perfect, I’m not gonna take Nathan Rich’s word for it.

Trump is the one pushing the narrative that it’s a Chinese virus, going so far as insisting that a G7 statement should call it the “Wuhan Virus”. His fanatical followers (roughly 40% of U.S. population) then puts the blame on the whole situation in USA on China and Chinese people. When his incompetence makes the disaster worse, he always blames somebody else, preferably foreigners. The Chinese are his target today, but he’s been blaming Mexicans and Muslims before.
I agree with you, NYT is not perfect (nobody is perfect). Most of the time, I trusted their reports… most of time, including their news on China, until recently. As Nathan Rich said, he used to think that NYT is “fact based, logical, and representing truth somehow”. Actually, I admired and respected NYT for being the only mainstream Western media who dared to report about the shutdown of the US Army Lab in Fort Detrick, Maryland due to safety concerns (link to article: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/05/health/germs-fort-detrick-biohazard.html). The biodefence center have had problems with decontamination of wastewater as well as leaks within the lab, and it was closed August 2019. The incident became the basis of suspicion from China, that it had infected army personnel who participated in the Wuhan World Military Games in October 2019 (which in turn infected locals in Wuhan, and the rest is history). Moreover, during September 2019, severe flu epidemic was sweeping across the US. Then last month, CDC Director Robert Redfield dropped a bomb admitting in Senate that some of the flu deaths may be coronavirus-related. The US restricting information on the coronavirus is not helping either https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ronavirus-deliberations-sources-idUSKBN20Y2LM
 

Tupai Hitam

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Would you wait to buy a spare tire until you have a flat? Would you buy a fire extinguisher only after your house burned down? By the time it happens it’s too late.
This is false equivalence. First, the spare tire and the fire extinguisher are not designed as weapons to kill people. Second, imagine if I had driven from Bogor to Jakarta in May 2008 and did not have a spare tire and did not get a flat tire. But I saw a car with a flat tire. Would I subsequently be exclaiming: "Oh, I wish I'd had a spare tire that day."?
Or if in May 2018, there was a fire in my neighborhood. I didn't have a fire extinguisher and my house was not burnt. Would I then exclaim: "Oh, I wish I'd had a fire extinguisher back then."?

I was lucky that the mob didn’t get to my kompleks, but they were close. Close enough to see a car getting smashed. One of my acquaintances wasn’t so lucky, she died in her ruko, trapped there when they lit it up.
You saw a car get smashed. And that makes you wish you had had a gun back then? I saw much worse than cars getting smashed in May 98 (and I was in a car that got smashed). I don't feel that having a gun would have improved my safety. Do you think the people burnt in fires in May 98 would have survived if they'd been carrying guns?

For sparsely populated areas like Alaska, where polar bears and other predators roam freely, not having a gun is a stupid concept. If your lifelihood depends on meat from moose you hunt, then not having a rifle means not eating.

In the continental USA where there are already more guns than people, not having a gun in times of emergency is not the best idea. The criminals have guns, and when half of the police force is quarantined due to the virus, what are you gonna use against these armed bad guys? Harsh language?
How many people in Alaska have these predatory polar bears killed? Do you feel everyone in Alaska should be carrying a gun in case a polar bear suddenly appears? Guns being registered to licensed hunters, farmers and competitive target shooters is not the same as civilians in general being able to purchase guns. As for the US in general, more guns in the hands of civilians is not the solution to its gun problem.

I had made another post on this thread, lamenting the shooting of geckos. It was deleted by an admin. I stand by my assertion that being hysterically afraid of harmless geckos to the point of demanding they be killed is stupid.
 

rabbit_39

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This is false equivalence. First, the spare tire and the fire extinguisher are not designed as weapons to kill people.
No, but just like a weapon in the hands of the right person they are live savers (not the candy kind)

Second, imagine if I had driven from Bogor to Jakarta in May 2008 and did not have a spare tire and did not get a flat tire. But I saw a car with a flat tire. Would I subsequently be exclaiming: "Oh, I wish I'd had a spare tire that day."?
Or if in May 2018, there was a fire in my neighborhood. I didn't have a fire extinguisher and my house was not burnt. Would I then exclaim: "Oh, I wish I'd had a fire extinguisher back then."?
Many people would have been thinking "I'm glad that wasn't me because I also didn't have a spare tire". Just because you didn't, it doesn't discount how others felt.

Again, others had their houses burnt, and I'm sure they wished they had something to prevent it, anything. Having tried and failed would have made many of them felt better. And yes, some of the ones who escaped their houses being burnt thought that "Glad my house was NOT burned down, but I sure wish I had a warehouse of them back then"


You saw a car get smashed. And that makes you wish you had had a gun back then? I saw much worse than cars getting smashed in May 98 (and I was in a car that got smashed). I don't feel that having a gun would have improved my safety.
Do you look like a Chinese-Indonesian? There's a genuine reason for self defense by those minority groups. Even if you do look like a Chinese-Indonesian, the fact that you felt no fear for your life does not discount the fact that many others did, and many still do today. In many places the racial balance is precarious. Current conditions may have some people think about getting ready for a May 2020.

Do you think the people burnt in fires in May 98 would have survived if they'd been carrying guns?
Absolutely!

How many people in Alaska have these predatory polar bears killed?
some places in Alaska have 1 bear per square mile
4 hospitalizations per year due to bear attacks
0.82 deaths per year
from the study published in 2019 for the period of 2000-2017 by epi.alaska.gov: "Therefore, everyone who is recreating or working in bear country should always carry a bear deterrent for defense and practice accessing and using the deterrent before relying on it for defense in a high pressure situation "

A study published in The Journal of Wildlife Management stated: " Although firearms have failed to protect some users, they are the only deterrent that can lethally stop an aggressive bear. " The writers were university faculties from Brigham Young University, University of Calgary (environmental sciences and wildlife sciences programs) and a scientist from the US Geological Survey's Alaska Science Center

Do you feel everyone in Alaska should be carrying a gun in case a polar bear suddenly appears?
I don't have to feel anything, the study above says so.

Guns being registered to licensed hunters, farmers and competitive target shooters is not the same as civilians in general being able to purchase guns.
hunters, farmers, and competitive target shooters are civilians and not members of the police or the armed forces. If I have a patch of corn at the balcony of my apartment, I'm now a farmer right? The key here is to make sure gun ownership is managed so that those who are eligible can buy them with enough safeguards in place.

As for the US in general, more guns in the hands of civilians is not the solution to its gun problem.
Except for the extremists, even advocates of gun ownership are not saying more guns. But rather the application of gun laws that strike a balance between gun ownership and its safety vs a free for all
 
Last edited:

Nimbus

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This is false equivalence. First, the spare tire and the fire extinguisher are not designed as weapons to kill people.
An insecticide is designed to kill insects, but we use it as a tool to prevent mosquitoes from spreading malaria and dengue fever. It literally is a biological weapon, and it saves people’s lives by killing mosquitoes.

A disinfectant is designed to kill bacteria and viruses. Another killer that saves lives.

A gun is the right tool for certain extreme situations. If every situation can be resolved peacefully, then there will never be a need for the police to be armed. When your life is threatened, the police is nowhere to be found, and your neighbors have scattered, then it could be the only thing to save your life.

I have absolutely no wish to take human life, but if I have to choose between my life or a criminal’s, I have an inalienable right to preserve mine.
Second, imagine if I had driven from Bogor to Jakarta in May 2008 and did not have a spare tire and did not get a flat tire. But I saw a car with a flat tire. Would I subsequently be exclaiming: "Oh, I wish I'd had a spare tire that day."?
Or if in May 2018, there was a fire in my neighborhood. I didn't have a fire extinguisher and my house was not burnt. Would I then exclaim: "Oh, I wish I'd had a fire extinguisher back then."?
I can’t speak for you, but for me the answer is yes.

I’ve seen what happened when people didn’t buckle up in a severe car crash. I don’t need to crash my car first to believe that wearing the seat belt is a good idea.

You may wait until you have a flat or have your house burned down before you take preventive measures, I don’t.

You saw a car get smashed. And that makes you wish you had had a gun back then? I saw much worse than cars getting smashed in May 98 (and I was in a car that got smashed). I don't feel that having a gun would have improved my safety. Do you think the people burnt in fires in May 98 would have survived if they'd been carrying guns?
I mentioned the car because it was right around the corner from my place. It means at any given moment the riot could have easily reached me and my family. The fact that it didn’t was due to neighborhood vigilance (every able-bodied men took turns guarding the entrance) and plain luck. Two people in our group actually had guns, although they didn’t use them. The guns weren’t even displayed, but they gave us some comfort. If we were attacked and outnumbered, we could still hold the rioters at bay.

This is not a dick measuring contest. I too have seen severe devastation, including charred buildings and bodies.

You are free to feel that having a gun doesn’t improve your safety, but that doesn’t make it true. If I were in a burning building surrounded by an angry mob, I do think that having a gun would significantly improve my chance to escape. My odds would be even greater if my neighbors also have guns, then the rioters might not have the chance to start the fire.

How many people in Alaska have these predatory polar bears killed? Do you feel everyone in Alaska should be carrying a gun in case a polar bear suddenly appears? Guns being registered to licensed hunters, farmers and competitive target shooters is not the same as civilians in general being able to purchase guns. As for the US in general, more guns in the hands of civilians is not the solution to its gun problem.

I had made another post on this thread, lamenting the shooting of geckos. It was deleted by an admin. I stand by my assertion that being hysterically afraid of harmless geckos to the point of demanding they be killed is stupid.
rabbit_39 has addressed Alaska, so I’m not going to rehash it.

The only animals I kill fit into two categories: pest or food. I have never killed a gecko, I don’t even kill spiders (with few exceptions). I always take the time to pick up the spiders around the house and drop them outside. However, I terminate mosquitoes and centipedes without a second thought.

If you think having a gun automatically makes one a killer, then not even police officers should have it, because it’s only a matter of time before they can no longer stop the urge to kill.
 

dafluff

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I had made another post on this thread, lamenting the shooting of geckos. It was deleted by an admin. I stand by my assertion that being hysterically afraid of harmless geckos to the point of demanding they be killed is stupid.
Moderation Note

User @Tupai Hitam was not warned for lamenting the shooting of geckos. They were warned because they directly insulted a family member of a forum user, which is against our rules.

Considering the current situation in the world, we understand that everyone maybe a bit more tense than normal. In this regard, some leeway on the part of the moderation team has been granted. But it does not mean one can abuse this at the expense of other forum members. To be absolutely clear, if some civility is not restored immediately, we will begin social distancing some users from this forum.

Sincerely,

Dafluff
For the Moderation Team
 

waarmstrong

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Not really. Farmers in Iowa, IL, and WI swear by the corn down the holes. Comes in a can about the size of a pringles can.
I am familiar with the product. Here in Iowa its used not for moles, but rather ground squirrels, which are herbivorous. The confusion may stem from the many names given the the animals: lickertail, picket pin, prairie squirrel, prairie gopher, grass gopher, ground gopher, squinny and probably many other. Moles are often called gophers, as well, but corn is not part of their diet.
 

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