How do you guys invest?

View attachment 5845
Could you elaborate on that? I found it to be a sensible post; especially in these times of large government deficits and wars in the ME, inflation can run high, and gold can serve as a hedge against that.
I think it is in the medium to long term.
What has been said is a very basic common sense. But if you want to go deeper, rely on authoritative sources. I've shared a link to Investopedia. Unless you claim to know more than their financial experts. Investopedia is a trusted resource for professional investors and hedge funds, not random people boasting online.

As the Investopedia article on inflation hedges points out:
' Gold is a popular inflation hedge because its price often rises as the dollar's value declines.'

'From 1990 to 2020, gold increased 360% compared to the Dow Jones Industrial Average's 1,081% gain, illustrating how stocks have generally provided better long-term returns.'

'Gold tends to shine brightest during specific economic conditions: periods of high inflation, geopolitical uncertainty, or market downturns, making it more valuable as a portfolio hedge than a primary growth investment.'

And You don't need AI to navigate thorough Investopedia.

Another proof is to Just look back at your own quotation in post #721, and you'll see that everything Investopedia states here is the link between gold performance vs inflation, uncertainty is true.
 
As the Investopedia article on inflation hedges points out:
' Gold is a popular inflation hedge because its price often rises as the dollar's value declines.'
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/has-gold-been-good-investment-over-long-term.asp
Value of was set at the Bretton Woods Conference in 1945 at 35$ / ounce.
Now it is at 4.000$ (after having been at 5.000).
It is still exactly the same material, same grade, same weight.
I agree that speculators, national banks and higher industrial demand may be for a part in this price increase but it is mainly due to the devaluation of the USD :

A $1 bill from 1945 has the equivalent purchasing power of about $18.72 in 2026, based on the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index (CPI). [1]

Key Inflation Details
    • 1945 CPI: 18.0 [1]
    • 2026 CPI: 336.94 [1]
    • Cumulative Price Increase: 1,761.00% over 81 years (an average inflation rate of 3.68% per year) [1]
    • Purchasing Power: Today's prices are roughly 18.61 times higher than they were in 1945, meaning a modern dollar buys only about 5.4% of what a dollar bought back then. [1]
 
More importantly it (gold) is a tangible asset that can be held in physical form also

Not like that silly bitcoin thing
I've yet to meet anyone who actually OWNS one let alone actually has a whole complete one lol

Yeh yeh it went from $10k to $100k to $40k to $80k but anyone I know who "has" bitcoin actually owns only 0.0043573 % of one and it's on some secret digital harddrive with only 1 password and most of the time they get stolen lost destroyed forgotten or hacked into
 
More importantly it (gold) is a tangible asset that can be held in physical form also

Not like that silly bitcoin thing
I've yet to meet anyone who actually OWNS one let alone actually has a whole complete one lol

Yeh yeh it went from $10k to $100k to $40k to $80k but anyone I know who "has" bitcoin actually owns only 0.0043573 % of one and it's on some secret digital harddrive with only 1 password and most of the time they get stolen lost destroyed forgotten or hacked into
Those crypto storage devices are open to hacking.
See this story, with technical explanation. This hacking operation is not some amateurish stuff. It is very high professional level.

 
Value of was set at the Bretton Woods Conference in 1945 at 35$ / ounce.
Now it is at 4.000$ (after having been at 5.000).
It is still exactly the same material, same grade, same weight.
I agree that speculators, national banks and higher industrial demand may be for a part in this price increase but it is mainly due to the devaluation of the USD :

A $1 bill from 1945 has the equivalent purchasing power of about $18.72 in 2026, based on the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index (CPI). [1]

Key Inflation Details
    • 1945 CPI: 18.0 [1]
    • 2026 CPI: 336.94 [1]
    • Cumulative Price Increase: 1,761.00% over 81 years (an average inflation rate of 3.68% per year) [1]
    • Purchasing Power: Today's prices are roughly 18.61 times higher than they were in 1945, meaning a modern dollar buys only about 5.4% of what a dollar bought back then. [1]
Well, Is that return really that impressive when stretched across 81 years? For perspective, the Dow Jones alone managed a 1,081% gain over just a single 10-year stretch. Between 1990 and 2020, gold rose 360% compared to the Dow's 1,081%.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/has-gold-been-good-investment-over-long-term.asp

Now, let's map out a comparison between Gold, the S&P 500, and the Dow Jones so people can easily compare them. This is just a standard Yahoo Finance chart that anyone can view and interact with on their own, no AI needed and you can adjust the time frame however you like. Over the long run, during periods of low inflation and stability, equities will always beat gold by a wide margin.

SP500 vs Dow vs Gold.jpg


This aligns with what financial experts have always pointed out: Post#861

'Gold tends to shine brightest during specific economic conditions: periods of high inflation, geopolitical uncertainty, or market downturns, making it more valuable as a portfolio hedge than a primary growth investment.'

You'll find other authoritative sources making the same point, that gold is generally working as a hedge against inflation and uncertainly and the reason for it is very sensible. But you don't have to take their word for it because everyone can easily verify it yourself by plotting the comparison chart by themselves and compare it, adjusting chart time frames whatever you like to see the full picture.
 
Well, Is that return really that impressive when stretched across 81 years? For perspective, the Dow Jones alone managed a 1,081% gain over just a single 10-year stretch. Between 1990 and 2020, gold rose 360% compared to the Dow's 1,081%.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/020915/has-gold-been-good-investment-over-long-term.asp

Now, let's map out a comparison between Gold, the S&P 500, and the Dow Jones so people can easily compare them. This is just a standard Yahoo Finance chart that anyone can view and interact with on their own, no AI needed and you can adjust the time frame however you like. Over the long run, during periods of low inflation and stability, equities will always beat gold by a wide margin.

View attachment 5846

This aligns with what financial experts have always pointed out: Post#861

'Gold tends to shine brightest during specific economic conditions: periods of high inflation, geopolitical uncertainty, or market downturns, making it more valuable as a portfolio hedge than a primary growth investment.'

You'll find other authoritative sources making the same point, that gold is generally working as a hedge against inflation and uncertainly and the reason for it is very sensible. But you don't have to take their word for it because everyone can easily verify it yourself by plotting the comparison chart by themselves and compare it, adjusting chart time frames whatever you like to see the full picture.
You just confirmed what I said.

Gold price appreciation is mostly due to the USD depreciation.
 
More importantly it (gold) is a tangible asset that can be held in physical form also

Not like that silly bitcoin thing
If you're looking for something tangible but with the volatility of Bitcoin, I have the right thing for you
1000233795.jpg

Bought it half a year ago as a souvenir in Surabaya. I liked the retro look and had never bought any silver before. It has dropped around 30% now.

Perhaps I need to buy more to really corner the market.
 
If you're looking for something tangible but with the volatility of Bitcoin, I have the right thing for you
View attachment 5848
Bought it half a year ago as a souvenir in Surabaya. I liked the retro look and had never bought any silver before. It has dropped around 30% now.

Perhaps I need to buy more to really corner the market.
While Bitcoin is officially recognised as an asset class, it’s not a tangible one. Investor opinion on crypto is still pretty divided, mainly because it's such a volatile ride.

If you take a look at what major hedge fund managers are doing with their multi million USD portfolios, most of them steer clear of crypto altogether. The ones who do invest usually only put in a tiny fraction treating it as a small hedge or a minor way to diversify, rather than a core part of their strategy.

On top of that, some of the biggest names in investing, like Warren Buffett and Charlie Munger (RIP), have always been openly against putting crypto anywhere near a serious portfolio.
 
Crypto someone ?



Binance was founded in 2017 by Changpeng Zhao, who in 2023 pleaded guilty to a felony related to his failure to prevent money laundering on the platform and stepped down as CEO. Donald Trump pardoned him in 2025.

Zhao posted on X on Thursday that “User funds are safe!” but added that the incident “does look like a hack on Binance”. He added that while he doesn’t manage Binance anymore, “as a shareholder, I expect all user funds will be fully covered”.

Not very reassuring....
 
Still waiting for Trump to visit Fort Knox to go into a huge empty room with just 3 pallets of gold bullion and a Chinese flag on two of them Property of PRC or something lol. And maybe a box of files Property of J Epstein
 
From the chart above Währung (Currency): IDR !!!
Also if you double check the return from S&P 500 since 2009 from the graph above is showing 500% (?)

I just rechecked in USD this should be 1,126.47% with dividends reinvested .


View attachment 5835

Why should I double check data from 2009 if the chart that I posted is the chart starting mid 1999. The chart was correct. The S&P500 was at around 1,400 back then and now at 7,700.

And that dividends are not included I stated as well in my comment. I even added the information that the outperformance of the Indonesian stock market is even bigger if you add the dividends - which means that the chart of both indices was exclusive dividends. If you add dividends to both the Indonesian index as well as the S&P500 the outperformance is even bigger because the dividend yiel was bigger in Indonesia in that timeframe.

I also stated that the chart of the Indonesian index is in IDR. And I stated that the an outperformance is still existent if you adjust it by the currency exchange rate's change, although the outperformance is less then, of course. But all already stated here before in my post.
 
6 months ago $ was 16 now its 18+ for many weeks already
Likewise Euro was 17 now almost 21
 
Exchange rate USD/IDR was between 7,000 and 9,000 in 1999. Therefore, worth of USD (in relation to IDR) doubled since 1999. So, as mentioned before, still the Indonesian stock market outperformed the S&P500 in that timeframe.

If we add the dividends (to both indices) the outperformance is a few percent p.a.
 
I still remember the domino analogy of man eats bat soup - global financial collapse of markets
 
Why should I double check data from 2009 if the chart that I posted is the chart starting mid 1999. The chart was correct. The S&P500 was at around 1,400 back then and now at 7,700.

And that dividends are not included I stated as well in my comment. I even added the information that the outperformance of the Indonesian stock market is even bigger if you add the dividends - which means that the chart of both indices was exclusive dividends. If you add dividends to both the Indonesian index as well as the S&P500 the outperformance is even bigger because the dividend yiel was bigger in Indonesia in that timeframe.

I also stated that the chart of the Indonesian index is in IDR. And I stated that the an outperformance is still existent if you adjust it by the currency exchange rate's change, although the outperformance is less then, of course. But all already stated here before in my post.
Ok, let do simple step by step calculation by running the Math using your own figure. I believe most people with basic Math could understand it:

Say you had $1,000 in 1999 to invest:

1. S&P 500
1999 Baseline: S&P 500 was at US$1,400.
Current Level: S&P 500 is at US$7,700.
Index Growth: 7,700/1,400=5.5x growth in price alone.
Result: Your $1,000 becomes $5,500 (before dividends).

2. IDX Composite (IHSG)
1999: You convert your $1,000 at the 8,000 IDR/USD exchange rate, you will get Rp 8,000,000 invested in Indonesian stocks.
Index Growth: In local currency, the Indonesian stock market grew 5,100/600 = 8.5x growth in price alone.
Result: Your Rp 8,000,000 grew to Rp. 68,000,000

Convert it back to US Dollar. The Rp. 68,000,000 after conversion to become the US Dollars at the rate of 18,000 IDR per $1, it will become Rp. 68,000,000/18,000 =$3,777 (also before dividends).

$5,500 vs $3,377 which one win ??
Could you see it now ??

The fallacy here is because some people might not realise the impact of currency depreciation. If the Exchange Rate are Moving from 8,000 to 18,000 per dollar it represents represent a 55% loss. This 55% loss will need to rise by 122.2% (NOT 55%) to return to its original value. See the calculation below
  • Original value: 100
  • After a 55% decline it becomes 45
  • Required increase is 100-45= 55 so in percentage: 55/45×100%=122.2%
  • New value: 100
Yes dividend have not been included and the average historical dividend yield from the IDX Composite is larger than S&P 500 (say 3% vs 1.85%. But keep in mind the dividend will also need to be converted back to US$. if the company do not make profit there is high probability they will not pay dividend.

Another thing to keep in mind is that when you plot a graph over a very long period, a linear scale can make the earlier, smaller values look insignificant compared with the much larger figures in later years. This is why a logarithmic scale is often used for long-term stock market charts, as it makes percentage changes easier to compare over time.
 
This is Hashim Ning, brother of current Indonesian President Prabowo Subianto, appears remarkably more intelligent and far more perceptive than his brother regarding economic and stock market reality ].
Hashim's Warning Regarding MSCI: Touching on Stock Market manipulation Could Lead to Economic Disaster in Indonesia

During his speech in KADIN (Indonesian chamber of commerce), Hashim accurately identified several critical economic vulnerabilities:
  • The MSCI Downgrade Threat: He warned that MSCI's consideration of downgrading Indonesia to a "standalone market" status could cause capital market funding to dry up and force foreign investors into massive capital flight.
  • Stock Market Manipulation: He publicly called out unhealthy market practices, such as pump-and-dump schemes, manipulated shares, artificial price-to-earnings (P/E) ratios, and inadequate free floats that have alienated both foreign and domestic investors.
  • Impact on Retail Investors: He noted that Indonesia’s 32.7 million retail investors are growing increasingly disgruntled as the value of their equity holdings continues to drop.
  • Macroeconomic Fallout: Citing consultations with financial experts, he cautioned that unchecked capital flight could trigger a sharp depreciation of the Indonesian rupiah, driving exchange rates down to Rp21,000–Rp22,000 per US dollar and severely inflating the burden of foreign debt.
Hashim’s realistic assessment stands in sharp contrast to President Prabowo’s characteristic rhetoric of defiance:
"Brothers and sisters, we are not afraid. We have strength, we have courage, we are willing to make sacrifices, and we do not know surrender."

While patriotism and nationalism are valuable, adopting a defiant stance against well documented stock market manipulation, issues recognised even by casual observers amounts to dangerous "blind nationalism."

While Hashim deserves credit for publicly acknowledging these manipulative practices, mere words and name-calling will fall short of fixing the issue. Restoring confidence in the Indonesian stock market requires genuine punitive measures and strict sanctions against bad players. Moreover, such widespread manipulation cannot occur without complicity and collusion across multiple institutions, implicating financial regulators (OJK), the stock exchange (IDX/BEJ), and law enforcement agencies.
 

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