Girls were for breeding purposes only

[ukcouple]

a follow up article in the same newspaper..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...cept-the-burkini-its-time-to-debate-integrat/

The issue of Islamic dress is not new in France. There is still the burqa ban, (mostly ignored by French Muslims), and now burqas on the beach.

Go to certain areas of Paris, Calais and Marseilles and you will know what i mean. In France it is all so "in yer face".

http://standpointmag.co.uk/dispatches-july-august-2016-ben-judah-islam-and-the-french-republic

It's a long read but worth it.. a brilliant incisive essay.

Most French people just want to go to the beach to get away from the ongoing tensions in French society and not be reminded of them by seeing women in beach burquas sittting in the deck chair next to them.


So.. why not give them separate areas to enjoy their burkinis..? just like nudists have their separate beaches.

 

[Bad_azz]

...

So.. why not give them separate areas to enjoy their burkinis..? just like nudists have their separate beaches.

Do people really think that segregating people is a way forward?

 

[ukcouple]

Do people really think that segregating people is a way forward?

yes.. nudists are separated on the beach because they offend certain people. If beach burqas offend the french.. why not separate them too.?

 

[Davita]

Do people really think that segregating people is a way forward?

Seems to work in most Muslim countries....and the way they think.

 

[Bad_azz]

yes.. nudists are separated on the beach because they offend certain people. If beach burqas offend the french.. why not separate them too.?

nudism is hardly the issue here tho' is it?

Is segregating people the way forward to creating a society that has acceptance and understanding or is it a step back in time... did segregation work well in the USA? South Africa?
I think Rosa Parks/ Mandela might disagree.

 

[Ruserious]

I think there is a case for segregation....and I agree with the comment about intimidation. I personally see this in Jakarta a lot with Hijab girls in bars and even restaurants that are more bar than restaurant. It is off putting and I believe it should not be allowed - there is a place for that. If people feel intimidated or pressured on a beach then segregation is the only answer.
In Indonesia right now there is extreme pressure on girls to adopt the hijab. This has been seen in schools all over East Java with even government employees involved. I have also witnessed it in offices I have worked in and noticed how it seems to come in a wave. There definitely is pressure and if people need spaces to escape from this then yes, segregation is the answer.

 

[Bad_azz]

Seems to work in most Muslim countries....and the way they think.

Do you think it works well there?

 

[Bad_azz]

I think there is a case for segregation....and I agree with the comment about intimidation. I personally see this in Jakarta a lot with Hijab girls in bars and even restaurants that are more bar than restaurant. It is off putting and I believe it should not be allowed - there is a place for that. If people feel intimidated or pressured on a beach then segregation is the only answer.
In Indonesia right now there is extreme pressure on girls to adopt the hijab. This has been seen in schools all over East Java with even government employees involved. I have also witnessed it in offices I have worked in and noticed how it seems to come in a wave. There definitely is pressure and if people need spaces to escape from this then yes, segregation is the answer.

I regularly hang out with a girl who is a devout follower of Islam, in a bar - a bar full of drunken rockers. She loves the music there and her husband plays in one of the bands... she supports him by attending his gigs... so are you saying she would not be able to go if we had segregation?

 

[Ruserious]

Bad_Azz: Is she wearing a Hijab? If so then yes exactly that. Hijab is a symbol and it is also repressive to those women who dont believe in it. They are wearing it to actively show there religion and that they are more religous than those around who dont. Aggressive religious symbols, especially for a religion so anti the environment should have no place in a bar. Is there no where we can go to escape from religion?

Given my view on this I am little more wavering on beaches but segregated beaches seem like a quick solution.

 

[Davita]

Do you think it works well there?

It doesn't matter what I think...it works the way they wish to conduct their way of life. The dispute is...should they be permitted to do the same in a country which doesn't conform to those ways....or should THEY adapt?

It's similar to the alcohol prohibition law (if passed) here in RI. We drinking expats will have to adapt.....or leave.

 

[Bad_azz]

Bad_Azz:
[1]Is she wearing a Hijab? If so then yes exactly that.
[2]Hijab is a symbol and it is also repressive to those women who dont believe in it.
[3] They are wearing it to actively show there religion and that they are more religous than those around who dont. Aggressive religious symbols, especially for a religion so anti the environment should have no place in a bar.
[4] Is there no where we can go to escape from religion?

Given my view on this I am little more wavering on beaches but segregated beaches seem like a quick solution.

1 yes she wears it
2 yes a symbol & nope not repressive in the least (unless people choose to feel repressed) I don't wear one and I am not in the least bit intimidated/repressed by it.
3 I think that is very short-sighted and bigoted and out of touch with the reality of the situation. I completely disagree that it is aggressive. I do think that people who see it as such need to have a rethink of what is going on in their heads and try to overcome their own fears and bigotry and lighten up a little.
4 nope- take the basic English language and remove any & all references to religion from it and see what is left. Take just about any book on the bestsellers fiction list and see how many of them have ZERO reference to gods or religion in any form.

 

[Zavia]

I love this bit in particular:

"And I’m afraid the fact that a woman may “choose†to wear a burkini doesn’t mean that her “choice†must always be respected. Not if it ends up intimidating other Muslim women into feeling ashamed for exposing their own flesh, making integration even harder. It’s not what the burkini is, but the poisonous ideology it represents."

As such, I propose that bikinis and all forms of bathing garments be banned on the beach and elsewhere for fear of intimidating naturists men and women into feeling ashamed for exposing their own flesh.

Actually I too was also loving it but had another thought, and one I believe is very legit to the more "liberal" societies. Goes like this: (words bolded where changed)

And I’m afraid the fact that a woman may “choose†to wear a bikini doesn’t mean that her “choice†must always be respected. Not if it ends up intimidating other Muslim women into feeling ashamed for not exposing their own flesh, making integration even harder.

 

[ukcouple]

..did segregation work well in the USA? South Africa?
I think Rosa Parks/ Mandela might disagree.

we are not talking about racial segregation here are we. ? Your analogy doesn't apply.. it's not racial prejudice, the French are amongst the most liberal people on earth.

The simple truth is that the majority of French people (65%) don't feel comfortable sharing the beaches with women in full body burqas.?

Let's respect their culture for once.

There has to be a limit to the extent that the French are expected bend over backwards to accommodate the cultural practices of (mostly Arabs) living among them.

P.S... This cultural tolerance, politically correct thing is all one way isn't it.! When will we see bikinis on the beach in Saudi Arabia I wonder.?

 

[dafluff]

P.S... This cultural tolerance, politically correct thing is all one way isn't it.! When will we see bikinis on the beach in Saudi Arabia I wonder.?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[ukcouple]

.. It's similar to the alcohol prohibition law (if passed) here in RI. We drinking expats will have to adapt.....or leave.

Yes indeed Davita..

and.. if there is an alcohol ban in Indonesia.. those same people saying that the French should respect Arab culture and accept Burqas on the beach will be the first to say that expats in Indonesia should accept Indonesian culture and accept the alcohol ban.

Hypocrocy at its finest..

 

[Davita]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

But two thongs does make it right by me.....

 

[Davita]

Yes indeed Davita..

and.. if there is an alcohol ban in Indonesia.. those same people saying that the French should respect Arab culture and accept Burqas on the beach will be the first to say that expats in Indonesia should accept Indonesian culture and accept the alcohol ban.

Hypocrocy at its finest..

and who remembers when those foreigners were executed in Nusa Kambungan and the world and U.N. tried to intervene and the answer... we have sovereign law.

Same principle...France and Belgium have a law banning the Burqa.

 

[ukcouple]

Two wrongs do not make a right.

No.. you got it ass backwards..

the Saudi ban on beach Bikinis is not a wrong. It is their right.!!

Saudi Arabia is a sovereign country with a strong conservative Muslim tradition and they have a right to their laws.

And so does France. France is a sovereign country with a liberal tradition and they too have a right to their own laws.

 

[dafluff]

No.. you got it ass backwards..

the Saudi ban on beach Bikinis is not a wrong. It is their right.!!

Saudi Arabia is a sovereign country with a strong conservative Muslim tradition and they have a right to their laws.

And so does France. France is a sovereign country with a liberal tradition and they too have a right to their own laws.

Both states are forcing women to dress a certain way in public, they are two faces of the same coin, and both are ridiculous.

But at least Saudi Arabia does not think itself as having a "liberal tradition". You know: liberal, from the root word "liber" meaning free. So while equally ridiculous, they are at least consistent.

 

[john madden]

Bad_Azz: ..... They are wearing it to actively show there religion and that they are more religous than those around who dont.

I don't believe that this is why my wife (for example) wears hijab. She couldn't give a rat's about how religious or not other women (including Muslims) are, nor is it a symbol for others. She wears it because she believes Allah wishes her to.