Girls were for breeding purposes only

[ukcouple]

... while equally ridiculous, they are at least consistent.

Why is the Saudi ban on Bikinis on their beaches ridiculous.?

Their dress code is in accordance with the Koran, isn't it.? They are conservative Muslims so the ban on bikinis is logical, certainly not ridiculous.

 

[El_Goretto]

Actually I too was also loving it but had another thought, and one I believe is very legit to the more "liberal" societies. Goes like this: (words bolded where changed)

This is actually extremely relevant in the context of impossible standards set by western society as to what a woman should look like (same with men really).

 

[ukcouple]

.. She wears it because she believes Allah wishes her to.

Yes I get that..

but i think in Europe and particularly among Arabs there is also a political dimension.

Going on a French beach in full Burqa, even though it makes the indigenous french feel uncomfortable, is a political act.. a deliberate provocation.

It's all about seeing how far they can go without sparking a reaction and then crying "hateful intolerance" when they do.

What they are really saying.. f*ck you and your stupid liberal French culture. We can do what we want, and you are too weak and Dhimmified to do anything about it.

 

[dafluff]

Why is the Saudi ban on Bikinis on their beaches ridiculous.?

Their dress code is in accordance with the Koran, isn't it.? They are conservative Muslims so the ban on bikinis is logical, certainly not ridiculous.

Because the freedom of religion should not extend to forcing others.

 

[Anglian]

When in Rome do as the Romans, try walking round Jeddah in a summer frock, and some poorer areas of Cario, or I Khartoum, see how far a women goes without being pestered, and I mean really pestered, I think from what we see in France, that some Arab women are saying fuck you I will wear what I like and,stuff your laws, I don't know if it's still common, but the English Garden in Munich is famous for its nude bathing at lunch time, and wearing clothes is definitely not on,

 

[Davita]

She wears it because she believes Allah wishes her to.

Allah akbar is what was yelled when destroying the twin towers and murdering about 4,000 people...
Allah Akbar is what was uttered when they beheaded some infidel journalists and gave the heads to children to display....
Allah Akbar is what was screamed when they blew-up the bar in Bali...

Anytime in the West.....where God is implicated as in 'He wished me'....that person usually spends time in a looney-bin.

 

[john madden]

Going on a French beach in full Burqa, even though it makes the indigenous french feel uncomfortable, is a political act.. a deliberate provocation.

It's all about seeing how far they can go without sparking a reaction and then crying "hateful intolerance" when they do.

What they are really saying.. f*ck you and your stupid liberal French culture. We can do what we want, and you are too weak and Dhimmified to do anything about it.

How are you able to know what was in the mind of that woman harrassed on the beach in France?

 

[john madden]

Anytime in the West.....where God is implicated as in 'He wished me'....that person usually spends time in a looney-bin.

There are a lot of folk in the West walking free on the streeets who behave according to their religious principles. You need to tighten up your reasoning, or at least how it is expressed.

 

[ukcouple]

How are you able to know what was in the mind of that woman harrassed on the beach in France?

I have no idea what was in the mind of that woman who went to a French beach in a Burqa. She sure didn't go there to get a suntan.

We can only speculate.

My best guess is that she was sent there by her brother or husband or other male as a provocation, to spark a reaction and make a political point to show how ''bigoted'' and ''hateful'' the french people really are.

Why else would she go there.? at the time it was against the local law to wear a burqa on the beach. She and her male provocateur must have known she was breaking the law. They wanted publicity and certainly got it.

She wasn't harassed.. the police were just doing their job.. enforcing the law.

The indigenous french people on the beach probably felt uncomfortable and intimidated by the presence of a woman in a burqa on the beach (especially considering all the recent terrorist attacks in France) and cheered the police action.

 

[john madden]

I have no idea what was in the mind of that woman who went to a French beach in a Burqa. She sure didn't go there to get a suntan.

We can only speculate.

My best guess is that she was sent there by her brother or husband or other male as a provocation, to spark a reaction and make a political point to show how ''bigoted'' and ''hateful'' the french people really are.

Why else would she go there.? at the time it was against the local law to wear a burqa on the beach. She and her male provocateur must have known she was breaking the law. They wanted publicity and certainly got it.

She wasn't harassed.. the police were just doing their job.. enforcing the law.

The indigenous french people on the beach probably felt uncomfortable and intimidated by the presence of a woman in a burqa on the beach (especially considering all the recent terrorist attacks in France) and cheered the police action.

The only sentences in your post that are not assumption or speculation are the first two.

 

[ukcouple]

The only sentences in your post that are not assumption or speculation are the first two.

yes.... if you read my post i said... ''We can only speculate.''

and that's exactly what i did.

 

[Terry MacArsey]

I don't suppose many muslim men would go to a French beach as they would be horrified to see women in bikinis.

Most of the muslim men I know would stay at home watching porn.

 

[Puspawarna]

If seeing a woman in a burkini makes you uncomfortable, that is YOUR problem, not hers. Bad_azz's comments about segregation were completely relevant. A major reason behind segregation in the US was because it made white people uncomfortable to have to share drinking fountains, bathrooms, or bus seats with black people.

As to "reciprocity" (ie, if Saudi Arabia or other Muslim countries don't allow bikinis, this grants France the right to deny burkinis), it is illogical no matter how you dress it up in pretty language. For one thing, it confuses acts of the state with decisions of the individual. The two are not the same. Take me, for example: if America continues to lose its collective mind and actually elects Trump as president, I trust none of my fellow posters will confuse that official act with what *I* believe and what actions *I* choose to take. Likewise, a burkini-wearing woman in France cannot be held responsible for the laws of SA. You have no idea whether she agrees with those laws or not. It's entirely possible she believes women are enlightened enough to make their own choices, religious and otherwise.

If you had evidence that this woman wanted to legislate that all other women to dress as she did, and that she was trying to limit their liberty by forcing them to do so, then yes, it would be clear she had committed an offense of some sort, and it would be reasonable to arrest her under whatever laws applied. (Though even then the laws of SA would not be relevant - it would be all about what was happening to French people on French soil.) But that is not what is going on here.

 

[Terry MacArsey]

Here's an article from the Guardian that says what 5 muslim women say about why they wear a burkini at the beach.

So instead of guessing why muslim women wear them this article should give some kind of understanding from the women's perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-five-women-on-dressing-modestly-at-the-beach

Maybe it will help the debate ?

 

[Puspawarna]

Here's an article from the Guardian that says what 5 muslim women say about why they wear a burkini at the beach.

So instead of guessing why muslim women wear them this article should give some kind of understanding from the women's perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...-five-women-on-dressing-modestly-at-the-beach

Maybe it will help the debate ?

Thanks so much for sharing that. That is very similar to my understanding via the work a friend of mine did for her Ph.D. thesis, in which she examined women's participation in the call to prayer in Indonesia. Her research gave her the opportunity to speak frankly with many veiled women about their motivations, and she characterized their viewpoints as much like the examples you have provided.

 

[Davita]

How are you able to know what was in the mind of that woman harrassed on the beach in France?

UKcouple responded....
I have no idea what was in the mind of that woman who went to a French beach in a Burqa. She sure didn't go there to get a suntan.
We can only speculate.......

The only sentences in your post that are not assumption or speculation are the first two.

I don't think you comprehend john madden...he said 'we can only speculate" then went on TO speculate...therefore his whole post was correct.

Edit: Ooops...just seen ukcouple answered himself...no need for my answer.

 

[Puspawarna]

But we CAN do more than speculate ... we can talk to women who wear various forms of covering, and ask them what their reasons are. You know, almost like they were fellow human beings or something.

 

[Davita]

As to "reciprocity" (ie, if Saudi Arabia or other Muslim countries don't allow bikinis, this grants France the right to deny burkinis), it is illogical no matter how you dress it up in pretty language. For one thing, it confuses acts of the state with decisions of the individual. The two are not the same.

Sovereign states create laws of reciprocity all the time.

Until recently Indonesia demanded visas from Australian tourists because they said Australia demanded from them. Australia still demands visas from Indonesians.
France decided to ban the Burqa and that is the law...just as Indonesia boasts it can apply execution because that's their law and Saudi bans bikinis and alcohol on the beach, and executes people, because that's their law.
Many countries have laws to prevent foreigners to own freehold land...yet foreigners can buy freehold land in Canada. Many advocate Canada should reciprocate...if and when they do it will be a law.
Indonesia applies huge taxes on imported French wine but wanted to export more palm oil to France...France reciprocated by applying a quota to Indonesian imported palm oil.

Who knows what "reciprocity' is in the mind of the lawmakers when they decide. Very often it reciprocates from a different direction but the implication is obvious...tit for tat!

Personally i couldn't care less what anyone wears...but I do care if some take advantage over another and I think ukcouple has a succinct answer...this could be provocation and a 'push-back' by the French is evident. I haven't visited France for many years but read that this "in your face' approach by Muslim groups is prevalent.
I just wish they'd choose a better 'battle' ......dress code is so flimsy an excuse to witness beheadings and mass murder.

 

[mauricio]

As a considerate person, I can imagine if I’m a Muslim woman in France, I will not wear a burkini to the beach IF wearing it offends other people, especially local people who are the majority in the country. If I have to wear one, I will look for another beach where burkini is permitted and welcomed. Otherwise, I may have to go to another country where Muslims are the majority. I will be conscious of being a minority, and to respect the majority. If the majority allows burkini, the minority should consider it a privilege, not a God-given right (because France is not an Islamic country). I’ll blame the designer who called this bathing suit “burkini”, thereby making it a religious symbol all over the world.

 

[Puspawarna]

Sovereign states create laws of reciprocity all the time.

You are equating "what is a law" with "what is morally right." I am sure you can see that the two things can be quite different. As I said, claiming that "reciprocity" is a defense of French law against burkinis only serves to punish individuals because of the laws of another state.