Girls were for breeding purposes only

[HappyMan]

Belgium is different. A general ban of face covering in public is too wide, and it would not fly in USA, nor should it be. The ban should be the exception rather than the rule. Make exceptions for banks, government buildings, and drivers. Otherwise leave people alone.

I lived under Suharto's dictatorship with heaps of rules and laws in the name of 'security'. I was also forced to register (along with other citizens of muslim-majority countries) with the US federal government in the name of 'security'. I am highly skeptical of any appeal to 'security' without any clear and specific threat involved.

I am also in favor of moderation in the name of things done for the sake of "security". I just think that an expectation that persons in public places should not be permitted to completely conceal their identity is moderate. Yes, drivers, government buildings, public locations where people congregate, any other public place where security is a concern...

I wouldn't expect the government to ban face coverings in privately owned buildings, but I wouldn't mind if the owners did. I wouldn't want to see a bunch of people with their faces covered, with anything, in the shopping mall, either.

To be clear, I'm not supporting the banning of face covering because I think it is a clever way to attack religious people, since I don't think that attacking artifacts is the way to get rid of religion. I support banning face coverings because... wait, why would I oppose the banning of something that makes me feel less safe and comfortable? The fact that the rule applies to burqas is a side issue, one that happens to have been made the main issue for the article above.

 

[waarmstrong]

Banning Halloween...are you trying to suggest common ground for fundamentalist Muslims and right wing Christians, Nimbus?

1984 is history but fear seems to be resurrecting Big Brother. Those suggesting that government surveillance of the governed be made easier should more carefully considering what they are wishing for.

 

[Nimbus]

I am also in favor of moderation in the name of things done for the sake of "security". I just think that an expectation that persons in public places should not be permitted to completely conceal their identity is moderate. Yes, drivers, government buildings, public locations where people congregate, any other public place where security is a concern...

I wouldn't expect the government to ban face coverings in privately owned buildings, but I wouldn't mind if the owners did. I wouldn't want to see a bunch of people with their faces covered, with anything, in the shopping mall, either.

To be clear, I'm not supporting the banning of face covering because I think it is a clever way to attack religious people, since I don't think that attacking artifacts is the way to get rid of religion. I support banning face coverings because... wait, why would I oppose the banning of something that makes me feel less safe and comfortable? The fact that the rule applies to burqas is a side issue, one that happens to have been made the main issue for the article above.

While my freedom doesn't trump your safety, it definitely trumps your feeling and comfort.

 

[waarmstrong]

I am also in favor of moderation in the name of things done for the sake of "security". I just think that an expectation that persons in public places should not be permitted to completely conceal their identity is moderate. Yes, drivers, government buildings, public locations where people congregate, any other public place where security is a concern...

Yes for health and safety considerations covering your face in public should be a crime.

 

[HappyMan]

While my freedom doesn't trump your safety, it definitely trumps your feeling and comfort.

My "feelings", of safety, you seem to have forgotten that part, are not irrational. You did say that you see the reason for it in a bank, a government building, etc. In the park, it's the same reason. In the mall, it's the same reason. In any crowded place, it's the same reason. We live in a world with bad people in it. You choose to tote a gun for that very reason. I expect the police to protect me, and am willing to give them every advantage.

You reckon five guys in full face masks could walk into your business tomorrow and you wouldn't be bothered a bit? Yeah, right.

Is there some right to remain anonymous? I don't remember it from my civics classes, in the USA...

 

[HappyMan]

Yes for health and safety considerations covering your face in public should be a crime.

Discretion.

 

[Nimbus]

My "feelings", of safety, you seem to have forgotten that part, are not irrational. You did say that you see the reason for it in a bank, a government building, etc. In the park, it's the same reason. In the mall, it's the same reason. In any crowded place, it's the same reason. We live in a world with bad people in it. You choose to tote a gun for that very reason. I expect the police to protect me, and am willing to give them every advantage.

You reckon five guys in full face masks could walk into your business tomorrow and you wouldn't be bothered a bit? Yeah, right.

Is there some right to remain anonymous? I don't remember it from my civics classes, in the USA...

There are degrees of rationality. It's not sufficient to take someone's freedom just because of a 'rational' fear. A lot of things are rational, but not all of them are strong enough to justify all restrictions.

This is why in USA there are several different levels of legal burden of proof. We got "reasonable suspicion", "reasonable to believe", "probable cause", "clear and convincing evidence", and the famous "beyond reasonable doubt".

Just 'rational' doesn't cut it.

 

[Terry MacArsey]

When a woman wearing a burka boards a plane are they taken into a private room by a female officer so that they can prove that their passport or identity card belongs to them and not somebody else ?

I assume this must be the case but I can't remember seeing anyone being called aside but maybe because it's done discretely ?

 

[Scooterindo]

When a woman wearing a burka boards a plane are they taken into a private room by a female officer so that they can prove that their passport or identity card belongs to them and not somebody else ?

I assume this must be the case but I can't remember seeing anyone being called aside but maybe because it's done discretely ?

I agree, I have been through many airports where covered muslim woman have just submitted their passports and breezed through. However I have also seen the special rooms for them to remove their veils for identification purposes, never actually seen them use though.

 

[jstar]

Nope, never seen them check anything. And an airport is one of those places where it does make sense. (Even on Halloween.)

 

[fastpitch17]

Walk into a bar on holloween wearing a face mask and someone is going to be checking who is under it and checking their ID to make sure you are of legal age. The law is an age required law, not a face covering law that is being abided by.

 

[Terry MacArsey]

Back in the news again. All I can say is she must be brave. Not to wear a burkini but to want to go swimming. It must be freezing in the sea in September

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-37382318

 

[jstar]

.
Well, smart to go to the Côte d'Azur; beautiful weather now. And the Mediterranean Sea is much warmer at the end of summer than the Atlantic Ocean or North Sea.