Girls were for breeding purposes only

[fastpitch17]

Oh My!

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...ve-islamic-state-group-reportedly-bans-burqas

The Islamic State group reportedly has banned women in its Iraqi stronghold of Mosul from wearing face-covering burqas.

 

[jstar]

They all agree! Or is it a charm offensive?

 

[fastpitch17]

They all agree! Or is it a charm offensive?

I don't know what to make of it all.

 

[jstar]

It is somewhat ironic that they discover the back of the medal of covering the face now. I have never seen an additional check of 'burqaed' ladies by (female) immigration officers btw; the guy at the counter looks at the passports and everybody can continue.

 

[PhilippeD]

And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on.

[url]http://listverse.com/2016/09/09/10-places-around-the-world-that-impose-a-ban-on-islamic-dress/



[/URL]

More and more nations are hopping on the burqa ban bandwagon. Whether it’s the conservative niqab, the more severe burqa, or even the less concealing hijab, a number of governments are insisting that the religious clothing leaves them too vulnerable to the encroaching threat of terrorism. Although they claim that the ban is meant to combat extremism, some nations seem to be going to extreme lengths themselves in order to enforce these restrictions.

How could they believe a imposed dressing code could fight terrorist? It don't make sense at all!

 

[fastpitch17]

How could they believe a imposed dressing code could fight terrorist? It don't make sense at all!

Yeah, that's what many seem to be saying here. A couple others, well, you know.

 

[fastpitch17]

The flip side and the US is doing something right. Trump probably wont like it but really, who cares.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...on-in-schools-as-anti-muslim-sentiment-grows/

The U.S. Education Department announced it will begin collecting data this year about allegations of discrimination or bullying of students based on their religion, bringing new attention to what educators and advocates call a growing problem in public schools, particularly for Muslim students.
Catherine E. Lhamon, the department’s assistant secretary for civil rights, said the department plans to work with schools and communities to promote inclusive school environments for everyone.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

How could they believe a imposed dressing code could fight terrorist? It don't make sense at all!

Yes, it makes no sense, but more and more Western countries seem to be taking this non-sense which is straight from the Chinese playbook (we all know how much the Chinese care about "human rights").

They have been imposing such restrictions on the minority Muslim population in the far Northwestern province of Xinjiang for several years already, in essentially the equivalent kind of oppression to that which is endured by their Buddhist fellow "Chinese" to the South: bans on burqa or faceveil to use public transportation; bans on beards for men (!) for the same; Muslims are even actively discouraged from fasting during Ramadan, and if they are government workers, teachers or students (!) are actually officially prohibited from doing so ... in some areas, the adzaan (call to prayer) is essentially forbidden as well (or "discouraged", if you know what I mean ... the Chinese are experts in the art of "discouraging words" ... and actions).

(Christians, who are the rising religious minority in mainland China, also face active repression on a wide scale ... crosses taken down by force or churches demolished outright if they are considered too "in-your-face" by the government.)

All religions are considered potential threats to the CCP, regardless of the lip service they have paid in recent decades to "freedom of religion". They are potential threats to the status quo and are dealt with accordingly, just like other forms of activism or free speech (Ai Wei Wei, "human rights lawyers", etc).

China is keen to be identified as a partner in the global "war on Islamic terrorism", particularly to paint the Uyghurs as militants (only a small percentage of them are, though many more would certainly like to have the Han off their backs) to engender support for their repressive policies.

For the West to be imitating China's inanely repressive policies is, er, not very complimentary to the West. It is clearly not all about public safety but about limiting and suppressing religious expressions of dress and activity which in themselves harm and threaten no one.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

Yet when a foreigner goes to any country that is Muslim they have to adhere to the norms there...yet I've never heard, except in history books, where this has caused trouble.
Even here, in Indonesia, there are many 'norms' which foreigners endure and it's a secular country.
Witness the lady (Meliana), living her whole life near Medan, who is facing blasphemy charges because she complained about the noise from the mosque...and the consequent burning of all the Buddhist temples by the angry Muslim mob.....



http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/muslim-mob-burns-buddhist-temples-northern-sumatra/

1) As pointed out already, Indonesia is not nor has been purported to be a "secular (officially non-religious) country"

2) the burkini ban, burqa ban and similar regulations are not aimed at "foreigners", but at anyone in France, and includes millions of French citizens who are Muslim

3) After you mention "foreigners", you give the example of "the lady (Meliana)" in the incident at Tanjung Balai ... she is pretty certainly not a foreigner, but an Indonesian citizen.

So your post seems a bit confusing, I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the regulation of foreigners ... have you been particularly oppressed or limited lately as a foreigner in Indonesia?

Couldn't buy Bintang at Indo Maret? Kasian.

 

[Nimbus]

Two days ago I attended a presentation at the high school. After the meeting a parent wearing a hijab held the door on her way out with a smile on her face, and the two old white ladies after her just went through without saying anything. I don't remember the last time anyone in USA failed to thank or acknowledge me for holding the door.

Nobody can force her to wear the cover, yet she does anyway and chooses to endure the bigotry, blatant or subtle. She has more balls than me.

 

[fastpitch17]

Two days ago I attended a presentation at the high school. After the meeting a parent wearing a hijab held the door on her way out with a smile on her face, and the two old white ladies after her just went through without saying anything. I don't remember the last time anyone in USA failed to thank or acknowledge me for holding the door.

Nobody can force her to wear the cover, yet she does anyway and chooses to endure the bigotry, blatant or subtle. She has more balls than me.

Not trying to pick on you Nimbus but, "two old white ladies?" Someone could read that as a bit of racially biased. Would it be different if Asian, Black, or Hispanic? Different if young? How about if men?

I always held the door for people in the US. I can say for a fact that many offer no thank you or even any acknowledgement of the action taken for them. I didn't stop holding doirs because I knew I was being polite and helpful and that was all that mattered to me.

 

[waarmstrong]

Come on FP, how else would you refer to two old white ladies? Describing the observable facts of a situation is not bigotry; if the reader in their thoughts generalize the rude behavior, that's not on the story teller.

 

[fastpitch17]

Come on FP, how else would you refer to two old white ladies? Describing the observable facts of a situation is not bigotry; if the reader in their thoughts generalize the rude behavior, that's not on the story teller.

Like I said, I wasn't picking on Nimbus but the perception a statement like this can potray could be taken as seperating someone from the other. Not all old white ladies would act this way, nor would other, however you group them. Why do they need describing? Two people would have worked but in this writing it was two old white ladies like that explains it all. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. If you see it differently, so be it.

 

[Anglian]

So if it was two old black ladies, what then, would they be less polite.

 

[waarmstrong]

Like I said, I wasn't picking on Nimbus but the perception a statement like this can potray could be taken as seperating someone from the other. Not all old white ladies would act this way, nor would other, however you group them. Why do they need describing? Two people would have worked but in this writing it was two old white ladies like that explains it all. Sorry, but that's the way I see it. If you see it differently, so be it.

So if there was a video of the event would you de-colorize, and blur the figures before putting it on Youtube? For my money, it is what it is. How you perceive it is on you.

I don't want anyone, news editor or producer included, sanitizing a story or cutting a video so as to deciding for me how a story or clip should be perceived.

 

[Nimbus]

Not trying to pick on you Nimbus but, "two old white ladies?" Someone could read that as a bit of racially biased. Would it be different if Asian, Black, or Hispanic? Different if young? How about if men?

Race, ethnicity, gender, and age is relevant information when describing bigotry. If I sanitize my story, it would be "a person held the door open and two other persons went past without acknowledging the door holder". Well, that's not worth mentioning.

In your town you probably can't reliably expect people to thank or acknowledge you for holding the door, but not here. It's jarring because two of them did it in one instance. For winter and for security there were two sets of doors, and she held them both one after the other. Four chances of acknowledgment, not one was taken.

40% of Americans support Trump despite his open call to ban and register Muslims. They are common and are literally everywhere. In this red state there are actually more of them than non Trump supporters. While I can't say they are all jerks, my chance of encountering the jerks among them is statistically significant.

I always held the door for people in the US. I can say for a fact that many offer no thank you or even any acknowledgement of the action taken for them. I didn't stop holding doirs because I knew I was being polite and helpful and that was all that mattered to me.

You're missing the point. I'm quite sure the hijabed lady did it not because she was craving for thanks. It doesn't change the fact that she wasn't being acknowledged. If appreciating a door holder is not so automatic around here, I wouldn't have noticed this to begin with.

 

[HappyMan]

I'm sorry to be disagreeable again, so soon, but I do think that a nijab or a burka are a different topic from the burkini. They make a person unidentifiable. I find it completely understandable that a government would not want unidentifiable persons wandering its streets. It is very much in the way of a security threat, and I don't understand why you guys fail to see that. Wanted lists are posted with photos... of people, not of the particular color of head covering that a person favors. IDs are issued with photos of people, not of cloth.

People concealing their identity in public places is a different topic from how much clothing one should be required to remove at the beach.

Also, it might be worth having another look at the places mentioned in your article, FP. Belgium bans any covering that covers the face completely, not just the Burka. That law does not make an issue of Islam. Some people make an issue of that law on behalf of Islam.

 

[Nimbus]

I'm sorry to be disagreeable again, so soon, but I do think that a nijab or a burka are a different topic from the burkini. They make a person unidentifiable. I find it completely understandable that a government would not want unidentifiable persons wandering its streets. It is very much in the way of a security threat, and I don't understand why you guys fail to see that. Wanted lists are posted with photos... of people, not of the particular color of head covering that a person favors. IDs are issued with photos of people, not of cloth.

People concealing their identity in public places is a different topic from how much clothing one should be required to remove at the beach.

Also, it might be worth having another look at the places mentioned in your article, FP. Belgium bans any covering that covers the face completely, not just the Burka. That law does not make an issue of Islam. Some people make an issue of that law on behalf of Islam.

A hijab is just hair covering, basically a shawl that covers the hair but not the face. If the face is not covered then there's no security issue. Despite its name a burkini doesn't cover the face either.

I can understand rules prohibiting masks or any face covering while driving or while at the bank. Other than that banning of masks is not acceptable. You're gonna ban halloween?

 

[HappyMan]

A hijab is just hair covering, basically a shawl that covers the hair but not the face. If the face is not covered then there's no security issue. Despite its name a burkini doesn't cover the face either.

I can understand rules prohibiting masks or any face covering while driving or while at the bank. Other than that banning of masks is not acceptable. You're gonna ban halloween?

I know that the burkini does not cover the face. Perhaps you thought I meant hijab when I said nijab? That is why it is a separate issue. FP's posts 260 and 261 both make mention of articles that are about the burka. There are others, just start there and read down.

I'm pretty sure that we can agree that Halloween is a special case. It isn't customary to go around knocking on strangers' doors to ask for candy at night, either, nor advisable on other days of the year. Actually, the older Belgium laws banning face coverings were made specifically to deal with the issue of covering the face during celebrations, carnival, so there is that banning masks on Halloween option, if you think it is a good idea, in the interest of fairness or something.

To mention the Belgian rules, again, they are specifically intended for use in parks and on public roads. Yes, the government has the right to require that those who use public facilities be visibly identifiable. They aren't going into people's homes and removing their burqas, or finding them at work to do the same. Personally, I would not be made to feel more comfortable if a group of men wearing full motorcycle helmets were to show up at the park and just sit there, wearing their helmets. Nor would their use of Halloween masks, out of season, make me feel more comfortable. Why should a bunch of women who cover their faces be any different? Am I to be sexist?

Walking about in public with your face covered creates problems for law enforcement and makes other citizens uncomfortable. It is that simple.

 

[Nimbus]

I know that the burkini does not cover the face. That is why it is a separate issue. FP's posts 260 and 261 both make mention of articles that are about the burka. There are others, just start there and read down.

I'm pretty sure that we can agree that Halloween is a special case. It isn't customary to go around knocking on strangers' doors to ask for candy at night, either, nor advisable on other days of the year. Actually, the older Belgium laws banning face coverings were made specifically to deal with the issue of covering the face during celebrations, carnival, so there is that banning masks on Halloween option, if you think it is a good idea, in the interest of fairness or something.

To mention the Belgian rules, again, they are specifically intended for use in parks and on public roads. Yes, the government has the right to require that those who use public facilities be visibly identifiable. They aren't going into people's homes and removing their burqas, or finding them at work to do the same. Personally, I would not be made to feel more comfortable if a group of men wearing full motorcycle helmets were to show up at the park and just sit there, wearing their helmets. Nor would their use of Halloween masks, out of season, make me feel more comfortable. Why should a bunch of women who cover their faces be any different? Am I to be sexist?

Belgium is different. A general ban of face covering in public is too wide, and it would not fly in USA, nor should it be. The ban should be the exception rather than the rule. Make exceptions for banks, government buildings, and drivers. Otherwise leave people alone.

I lived under Suharto's dictatorship with heaps of rules and laws in the name of 'security'. I was also forced to register (along with other citizens of muslim-majority countries) with the US federal government in the name of 'security'. I am highly skeptical of any appeal to 'security' without any clear and specific threat involved.