Girls were for breeding purposes only

[HappyMan]

So I should probably warn the gentle reader that this post is going to -shock! - be germane to the actual topic of the thread ... and ... um ... apologize in advance?

"So sorry for going back to the topic, please excuse the interruption of your perpendicular postulations"?

An article posted on CNN's website, presenting a rather different perspective from that of Mssr. Valls:

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/07/opinions/burkini-ban-france-myriam-francois-opinion/index.html

I thought we could avoid this topic, its just so depressing. I keep rolling this around in my mind, trying to think of a way for it to be fair... but it is just so blatantly about Islam. At least with the school thing the ban was universal, truly secular. This is clearly a matter of singling out Muslims... in a public place. If it were private beaches... different discussion. Fortunately, France's highest administrative court is on the case, maybe this will be a case of legal foresight... err trumping... populist idiocy. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37198479

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

I thought we could avoid this topic, its just so depressing. I keep rolling this around in my mind, trying to think of a way for it to be fair... but it is just so blatantly about Islam. At least with the school thing the ban was universal, truly secular. This is clearly a matter of singling out Muslims... in a public place. If it were private beaches... different discussion. Fortunately, France's highest administrative court is on the case, maybe this will be a case of legal foresight... err trumping... populist idiocy. http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37198479

Happy, it's all well and good if you and some of your friends would like to avoid the topic, if it makes you feel uncomfortable or depressed, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to do so by simply reading / posting on other threads? That's the part that is not quite making sense to me.

Like, let's say (wink) there is a thread in "the cage" with the topic of ... posting curse words and swearing (wink), but I am not comfortable with that topic (actually I'm just bored by it), so I go there and start posting chocolate chip cookie recipes because "I want to avoid this topic" ... akesmay onay ensenay, esyay?

 

[HappyMan]

Happy, it's all well and good if you and some of your friends would like to avoid the topic, if it makes you feel uncomfortable or depressed, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to do so by simply reading / posting on other threads? That's the part that is not quite making sense to me.

Like, let's say (wink) there is a thread in "the cage" with the topic of ... posting curse words and swearing (wink), but I am not comfortable with that topic (actually I'm just bored by it), so I go there and start posting chocolate chip cookie recipes because "I want to avoid this topic" ... akesmay onay ensenay, esyay?

But, I did post on the topic... I was just lamenting the necessity. Meaning, I wish the French legislature would hurry up and remove their heads from their asses so I can go back to having faith in my preferred form of government, rather than wondering, here, how bigot laws can be on the books in one of the most liberal nations in the world.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

But, I did post on the topic... I was just lamenting the necessity. Meaning, I wish the French legislature would hurry up and remove their heads from their asses so I can go back to having faith in my preferred form of government, rather than wondering, here, how bigot laws can be on the books in one of the most liberal nations in the world.

Okay ... so, going back to my example, if I posted "on the topic", e.g, posted some curse words, and THEN started posting cookie recipes, because I did not really feel comfortable with the topic, that would be okay? Maybe I should try it and see what the reaction would be. I have a feeling some people might be annoyed, but I could be "wr-wr-wr".

 

[HappyMan]

Okay ... so, going back to my example, if I posted "on the topic", e.g, posted some curse words, and THEN started posting cookie recipes, because I did not really feel comfortable with the topic, that would be okay? Maybe I should try it and see what the reaction would be. I have a feeling some people might be annoyed, but I could be "wr-wr-wr".

The cookie thing works. You just have to think of interesting recipes. You could have c#### cookies with cream, or t#### cookies with truffles or chocolate c#### cockies with cheese. Anyway, haven't you just tried to pull me into a side topic twice?

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

Anyway, haven't you just tried to pull me into a side topic twice?

No, I'm not trying to "pull you into a side topic" at all. I'm trying to get you to consider whether posting off-topic content in a "serious" thread "because I wanted to avoid the depressing topic" actually makes sense or seems like a good idea.

I'm not saying I've never been "guilty" of posting off-topic content on threads, I have done so. In this particular case, I guess I feel annoyed because 1) it is a serious topic, but (no pun intended) some have chosen to post frivolous off-topic material here (you can take your butts as seriously as you like 'em, but this thread really isn't the right place for it, in my *opinion*); and 2) others have started another valid and "serious" but very off-topic tangential conversation which belongs ... somewhere else (again, in my *opinion*); 3) this happens to be one of very few threads / topics which have currently got my interest (because of the actual topic) and I'd prefer that when I read the thread it's not cluttered up with butts and discussions of mixed race children and the terms historically applied to them, no matter how wildly engaging those may be in their own right ...

That's what I'm saying. Don't try to turn this around to "oh, aren't you trying to draw others into an off-topic discussion", please, it's not correct or fair.

 

[HappyMan]

No, I'm not trying to "pull you into a side topic" at all. I'm trying to get you to consider whether posting off-topic content in a "serious" thread "because I wanted to avoid the depressing topic" actually makes sense or seems like a good idea.

I'm not saying I've never been "guilty" of posting off-topic content on threads, I have done so. In this particular case, I guess I feel annoyed because 1) it is a serious topic, but (no pun intended) some have chosen to post frivolous off-topic material here (you can take your butts as seriously as you like 'em, but this thread really isn't the right place for it, in my *opinion*); and 2) others have started another valid and "serious" but very off-topic tangential conversation which belongs ... somewhere else (again, in my *opinion*; 3) this happens to be one of very few threads / topics which have currently got my interest (because of the actual topic) and I'd prefer that when I read the thread it's not cluttered up with butts and discussions of miscegenation, no matter how wildly engaging those may be in their own right ...

That's what I'm saying. Don't try to turn this around to "oh, aren't you trying to draw others into an off-topic discussion", please, it's not correct or fair.

Point well made.

 

[Pak Asam Manis]

'Kay ... thanks.

If there is not sufficient interest left in the topic to keep it "going" or if people just run out of new things to say (I'm probably at about that point myself, if not beyond it, ha ha) then maybe it's time to move on to other threads and let this one enter a peaceful and dignified repose. It can always be resuscitated if people have new comments to make on the "topic" ...

As the mods have pointed out many times on the erstwhile channel, and perhaps here as well: off-topic posting CAN make threads entertaining / amusing and are often tolerated in threads like ye olde "exp*t ch*t" which are generally on less serious and / or information-based topics; in the latter sort, "off-roading" should be minimized. I think that is a fair appraisal.

 

[dafluff]

'Kay ... thanks.

If there is not sufficient interest left in the topic to keep it "going" or if people just run out of new things to say (I'm probably at about that point myself, if not beyond it, ha ha) then maybe it's time to move on to other threads and let this one enter a peaceful and dignified repose. It can always be resuscitated if people have new comments to make on the "topic" ...

Personally I vote for this. Everything that needs to be said (and then some) has been said, so I think we can all move on to another topic.

As the mods have pointed out many times on the erstwhile channel, and perhaps here as well: off-topic posting CAN make threads entertaining / amusing and are often tolerated in threads like ye olde "exp*t ch*t" which are generally on less serious and / or information-based topics; in the latter sort, "off-roading" should be minimized. I think that is a fair appraisal.

Agreed. Were this a thread in any of the law channels for instance, we would've pruned the off topic stuff long ago.

 

[fastpitch17]

The French just seem to be singling out Muslims and frankly, that is discrimination and anti Muslim. Any Muslims that want something not allowed for the French is one thing but for those that just want to live within what all French are supposed to be allowed then they shouldn't be singled out. Do the French believe that wearing muslim attire really contributes to terrorism? Seems to me that if you single out a certain population for any negative reason you ask for more trouble than what may have led you to that action to begin with.

 

[Davita]

The French just seem to be singling out Muslims and frankly, that is discrimination and anti Muslim. Any Muslims that want something not allowed for the French is one thing but for those that just want to live within what all French are supposed to be allowed then they shouldn't be singled out. Do the French believe that wearing muslim attire really contributes to terrorism? Seems to me that if you single out a certain population for any negative reason you ask for more trouble than what may have led you to that action to begin with.

Yet when a foreigner goes to any country that is Muslim they have to adhere to the norms there...yet I've never heard, except in history books, where this has caused trouble.
Even here, in Indonesia, there are many 'norms' which foreigners endure and it's a secular country.
Witness the lady (Meliana), living her whole life near Medan, who is facing blasphemy charges because she complained about the noise from the mosque...and the consequent burning of all the Buddhist temples by the angry Muslim mob.....

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/muslim-mob-burns-buddhist-temples-northern-sumatra/

 

[Cupu Manik]

Even here, in Indonesia, there are many 'norms' which foreigners endure and it's a secular country. /

the first sila and the base of all five in Pancasila is "Ketuhanan yang Maha Esa". Means Indonesians believe in God and that God is one. Indonesia has never been and will never likely be a secular country. Many lately have been trying to convince that the One Lord belongs to muslim and thus Islam rules and laws only that should apply, which turns ugly.

 

[fastpitch17]

Yet when a foreigner goes to any country that is Muslim they have to adhere to the norms there...yet I've never heard, except in history books, where this has caused trouble.
Even here, in Indonesia, there are many 'norms' which foreigners endure and it's a secular country.
Witness the lady (Meliana), living her whole life near Medan, who is facing blasphemy charges because she complained about the noise from the mosque...and the consequent burning of all the Buddhist temples by the angry Muslim mob.....

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/muslim-mob-burns-buddhist-temples-northern-sumatra/

Yes but things like a burkini don't seem to be asking for anything out of the ordinary but still attacked mainly by the government. People are allowed to wear clothes on the beaches and not a word is said. Nuns can go there and again, nothing said. Scarves are worn by many to protect themselves from the sun, nothing is said. Mimes can perform on the beaches with their faces fully covered in pancake make-up. So, the Muslim Women that elect to dress conservatively are singled out. This is the part that is wrong.

For me, I think the burkini looks silly on a beach but then again, There is nothing directing me to wear one. Same for the facekini from China who no one seems to be having a problem with even though it completely hides the face and is pretty scary to look at. I understand France says they are doing these things to protect the Women from the dominance of men but really, in France the Women would be supported if they took this stance themselves and help for them would be coming out of the woodwork if they asked for any. I don't feel that Muslim Women are any weaker then the other Woman of the world. What is different is their teachings and it is there they need to reach if things are to change for them. No one else can change them and no one else can say they know better for them. These Women in their Burkini are not doing anything against French society. They were not attempting to send messages to anyone asking for a single special privilege. They may look a bit out of place within the mass society but look around, a lot of people fit that description.

 

[fastpitch17]

the first sila and the base of all five in Pancasila is "Ketuhanan yang Maha Esa". Means Indonesians believe in God and that God is one. Indonesia has never been and will never likely be a secular country. Many lately have been trying to convince that the One Lord belongs to muslim and thus Islam rules and laws only that should apply, which turns ugly.

Then those people who think the one god belongs only to Muslims should be asked to show that in the Quran. They probably won't be asked that, especially in Indonesia because any organization that heralds itself as an Islamic organization is protected from the Indonesian people by way of the people's refusal through fear of any religious word to speak up. Indonesians seem to carry the fear of labels more then anything else.

 

[Davita]

Yet...wearing a bikini on the beach in Saudi...IS against the law....and subject to arrest.

 

[fastpitch17]

Yet...wearing a bikini on the beach in Saudi...IS against the law....and subject to arrest.

Then it is the law and I suggest you don't break that law. I'm sure that law in Saudi doesn't discriminate against any particular group. France didn't have any such laws for burkinis until just recently and i think they have now been thrown out. When the law was passed they stated it was to protect the Muslim Woman from the overbearing unjust laws within the religion controlling Women. I don't think the Saudis stated any such reason.

 

[Anglian]

In private swimming pools and some complexes, women wear bikinis, but in public forget it

 

[HappyMan]

Yet...wearing a bikini on the beach in Saudi...IS against the law....and subject to arrest.

I don't see how what the Saudis do is relevant to what the French do. The Saudis don't claim to be a liberal society or to provide equality for all. The only reason to include them is if you think this is an "us versus them" discussion, or to turn it into one. Personally, I don't understand the desire to make French Muslims answer for the actions of Saudi Muslims. Why do you keep mentioning this?

 

[fastpitch17]

http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-N...Islam-must-live-within-the-law/3471473378030/

Hollande gave the stern speech on Thursday with falling public confidence and rising anti-Islamic sentiment in France after the Paris and Nice terror attacks and burkini bans on French beaches. He also called for kicking extremest imams out of the country. The country has been under a state of emergency since November.
Hollande said religion and state can live together peacefully in France.

 

[fastpitch17]

And the beat goes on, and the beat goes on.

http://listverse.com/2016/09/09/10-places-around-the-world-that-impose-a-ban-on-islamic-dress/

More and more nations are hopping on the burqa ban bandwagon. Whether it’s the conservative niqab, the more severe burqa, or even the less concealing hijab, a number of governments are insisting that the religious clothing leaves them too vulnerable to the encroaching threat of terrorism. Although they claim that the ban is meant to combat extremism, some nations seem to be going to extreme lengths themselves in order to enforce these restrictions.