DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[Balifrog]

Another report from the CDC says that "Once infected, though, vaccinated people are just as contagious as those without that protection — meaning they need to wear a mask and keep their distance to avoid passing on the virus." Masks aren't going anywhere for a long, long time.

Delta variant substantially more contagious than other variants, CDC presentation warns

Evidence is mounting about the dangers of the delta variant and how mask-wearing is essential to bring it under control, according to a CDC memo.

www.yahoo.com

So, let's recapitulate...
=> Vaccinated people are as likely to be spreaders as non vaccinated people.
=> Means the vaccine is only for your own, personal protection, in the sense of avoiding complications, hospitalization, or death.
=> Means that non vaccinated people are not more "dangerous" to the community than vaccinated people, except that they accept the risk of becoming very ill or die, if infected by another person. Irony would be they be infected by a vaccine zealot ...
=> So, except with regard of hospitals being overwhelmed or inflating social security costs, by non vaccinated people (little chance of that if they represent only 30or 40% of the population) what is the point of hassling the poor buggers, and force them to take the vaccine ?

The only "herd" protection is to vaccinate as much VOLUNTEERS as possible and let the thing run. Open the economy, drop the masks and social distancing and get back to a normal live.
Some people will fall ill, some will die, mainly amongst the non vaccinated ones, but hey it was their free choice.

EDIT : Let's be clear....don't try the "re-opening" thing in countries or areas / cities with a very low vaccination rate. If only 25% of the people are vaccinated, it won't work !

 

[HappyMan]

Means that non vaccinated people are not more "dangerous" to the community than vaccinated people, except that they accept the risk of becoming very ill or die, if infected by another person. Irony would be they be infected by a vaccine zealot ...

No, mate. Because the unvaccinated are still more likely to become infected, after which they would then spread the disease.

From HealthLine this bit is about the Pfizer vaccine, “study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the delta variant." They actually have six separate studies listed with different rates of effectiveness at preventing infection between 64% and 95% (against Delta).

Moderna has 2 studies showing 72-95% effectiveness against contracting Delta.

The only J&J study they have shows 67% effectiveness against contracting Delta.

Let's just take the lowest number. So, if you are 64% less likely to get infected, you are 64% less likely to transmit the disease to me.

*A lot of these studies still need peer review. https://www.healthline.com/health-n...-the-delta-variant#Vaccines-vs.-delta-variant

 

[Balifrog]

A lot of these studies still need peer review. https://www.healthline.com/health-n...-the-delta-variant#Vaccines-vs.-delta-variant

Man, that's not a "study" ....have you looked up the biography of the writer of that article ?

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About​

A proud bicultural bilingual (British-Turkish dual national); storyteller and decisionmaker; motivator; a true learner compelled by data. My areas of expertise include language-related trades such as translating & interpreting, localisation, content creation, blog writing, proofreading, news writing and copy editing — all driven by a passion for storytelling. I mostly cover stories on health, tech, the environment and science. Fashion, beauty and home&decoration are also topics I enjoy writing about. With 5+ years of diverse work and volunteering experience that includes work as a staff writer, news reporter, subeditor as well as breaking news editor and social media editor, I have a proven track record of meticulous attention to detail and incredible work ethic even when working remotely. (2.5+ years of continuous WFH)"

● She has ZERO scientific of even medical background, jusg a storyteller / translator as she herselve point out.

You'll need to find better sojrces mate !

 

[HappyMan]

@Balifrog Lol. Are you trolling me? That is a news article that contains an entire list of studies, all with their own hyperlinks....scroll down, mate.
The part of the article with numbers in it (the important part) has seperate hyperlinks to all the studies I mentioned.
As for the person who got assigned to type up the list... whatever, they linked the sources without contradicting them or doing strange things with math. You want PhDs, follow the links.

 

[Hawk256]

Here is a real world event that appears to show more vaccinated people getting COVID than unvaccinated. Maybe there were many more vaccinated people there and even more could have infected if they weren't vaccinated but the numbers are what they are. Still a lot people able to be a spreader.

No deaths, few hospitalizations, but 74% of those testing positive for COVID-19 in Massachusetts outbreak were vaccinated

A federal investigation into a COVID-19 outbreak earlier this month in a Massachusetts county that's home to Cape Cod found that 74% of the 469 infections were among vaccinated people, a finding that raises questions about the prevalence of breakthrough infections.

finance.yahoo.com

 

[Balifrog]

Meanwhile, good to see some governments taking couragous and sensible moves in the right direction.

Adapting COVID-19 measures to support Albertans | Adapter les mesures liées à la COVID-19 pour aider les Albertains

With strong vaccine uptake, Alberta will gradually bring COVID-19 measures in line with other respiratory viruses to ensure health system capacity for the fall.

www.alberta.ca

The idea being to bring Covid down to the same rules as any other respiratory disease like influenza.
Note again that they have 64% fully vaccinated people, and 75% with 1st shot, which allows this move without major risk of being overwhelmed by patients.

 

[Balifrog]

Lol. Are you trolling me

No mate, definitively not.
Ok, if I am really bored this afternoon and still have a functioning brain after beach lunch, I will dig deeper in the links !

 

[R Cameron]

Here is a real world event that appears to show more vaccinated people getting COVID than unvaccinated. Maybe there were many more vaccinated people there and even more could have infected if they weren't vaccinated but the numbers are what they are. Still a lot people able to be a spreader.

No deaths, few hospitalizations, but 74% of those testing positive for COVID-19 in Massachusetts outbreak were vaccinated

A federal investigation into a COVID-19 outbreak earlier this month in a Massachusetts county that's home to Cape Cod found that 74% of the 469 infections were among vaccinated people, a finding that raises questions about the prevalence of breakthrough infections.

finance.yahoo.com

There are many shortcomings of that data set, but the one thing that is clear is that breakthrough cases (especially with Delta) are not uncommon. This means Covid is likely on its way to becoming endemic, and unvaccinated people should not be relying on the protection of herd immunity from their community.

 

[Hawk256]

NOTE-- Article in link has been changed and edited by the source. Link to new article. https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covi...e-protection-wanes-after-6-months-study-finds
According to this article, if it has been more than six months since you were vaccinated, you are either essentially "unvaccinated" or well on your way to being "unvaccinated". If it has been more than six months since you were vaccinated, you now belong to the unvaccinated group.

COVID vaccine protection highly likely to wane over time - UK advisers say

LONDON (Reuters) -The protection that vaccines give against coronavirus infection, and potentially severe disease, is highly likely to wane over time so vaccine campaigns will continue for years to co...

www.yahoo.com

 

[harryopal1]

There are many shortcomings of that data set, but the one thing that is clear is that breakthrough cases (especially with Delta) are not uncommon. This means Covid is likely on its way to becoming endemic, and unvaccinated people should not be relying on the protection of herd immunity from their community.

Extremely difficult for governments to sift through this constantly changing fabric of information and make rational decisions. It seems inevitable that the costs of renewing lockdowns are going to have such a disruptive impact on people trying to survive that anti lockdown protests will keep springing up. Sydney managed to suppress a proposed second major protest this weekend but with an ever widening range of infections one wonders how long an even well off country such as Australia can hope to contain the spread by lockdowns. While Jokowi may be criticized for not having gone for massive lockdown preventive measures it seems that Indonesia really does not have the resources or capacity to use lockdowns as a major anti-Covid weapon. This is like trying to contain a bush fire during an extremely hot summer with lightning strikes igniting new outbreaks hither and thither.

 

[dafluff]

Preprint of paper by Singaporean researchers.

Conclusion The mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing symptomatic and severe COVID-19 associated with B.1.617.2 infection. Vaccination is associated with faster decline in viral RNA load and a robust serological response. Vaccination remains a key strategy for control of COVID-19 pandemic.

Virological and serological kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant vaccine-breakthrough infections: a multi-center cohort study

Objectives Highly effective vaccines against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) have been developed but variants of concerns (VOCs) with mutations in the spike protein are worrisome, especially B.1.617.2 (Delta) which has rapidly spread across the world. We aim to study...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[ChrisTex]

Guess we will all need a vaccine passport sooner than later.

You're going to be asked to prove your vaccination status. Here's how to do it.

Congratulations, you've been vaccinated against the coronavirus. Now you have to prove it, and your smartphone can help. Across the world, fears about the contagious delta variant are leading more bus...

www.yahoo.com

 

[Will_M]

The concern would be if the Indonesian CoronaVac certificate will be accepted worldwide or even in other SEA countries.

 

[nd_eric_77]

The concern would be if the Indonesian CoronaVac certificate will be accepted worldwide or even in other SEA countries.

I imagine ASEAN countries will accept CoronaVac since it is what most of them (except Singapore) also use. Furthermore, although it took a few months longer, CoronaVac did get the same WHO approval that the other vaccines received.

 

[R Cameron]

According to this article, if it has been more than six months since you were vaccinated, you are either essentially "unvaccinated" or well on your way to being "unvaccinated". If it has been more than six months since you were vaccinated, you now belong to the unvaccinated group.

COVID vaccine protection highly likely to wane over time - UK advisers say

LONDON (Reuters) -The protection that vaccines give against coronavirus infection, and potentially severe disease, is highly likely to wane over time so vaccine campaigns will continue for years to co...

www.yahoo.com

That is a terrible summary of what is contained in that article. What is your agenda?? Not only does the article make zero mention of six months or any period where someone would be again considered "unvaccinated", it actually affirms the likely long term effectiveness of the vaccinations against severe disease:

They said it might be expected that vaccine effectiveness would remain high for severe disease but effectiveness against mild disease and infection could fall off over time.

Anecdotal reports from Britain and Israel, which rolled out a comprehensive early campaign, supported that concept, they said.

 

[Hawk256]

That is a terrible summary of what is contained in that article. What is your agenda?? Not only does the article make zero mention of six months or any period where someone would be again considered "unvaccinated", it actually affirms the likely long term effectiveness of the vaccinations against severe disease:

What do you mean what is my agenda? Why do I need an agenda to post information. What is your agenda? The article in link had changed from what it was when I linked it. It appears to have been edited severely. Here is another link.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

 

[R Cameron]

What do you mean what is my agenda? Why do I need an agenda to post information. What is your agenda? The article in link had changed from what it was when I linked it. It appears to have been edited severely. Here is another link.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

Okay, so they edited the article and you didn't make up the 6 month figure, that's good. But your commentary is still just blatantly false. Both the old article and your new one highlight that the vaccine is working very well after 6 months against serious disease and hospitalization, why in the world would you consider someone "unvaccinated" if they are still strongly protected against the disease? Show me any serious medical professional suggesting this. Those articles certainly don't. No vaccine is 100% effective. Saying that a vaccine having a small decrease in efficacy over time makes someone "unvaccinated" is absurd.

 

[Hawk256]

Okay, so they edited the article and you didn't make up the 6 month figure, that's good. But your commentary is still just blatantly false. Both the old article and your new one highlight that the vaccine is working very well after 6 months against serious disease and hospitalization, why in the world would you consider someone "unvaccinated" if they are still strongly protected against the disease? Show me any serious medical professional suggesting this. Those articles certainly don't. No vaccine is 100% effective. Saying that a vaccine having a small decrease in efficacy over time makes someone "unvaccinated" is absurd.

I have already told you that my earlier comment was made on an article that has been edited. It doesn't change my basic opinion. The vaccine isn't going to be effective for a long time. Six months, twelve months, we will need another shot. It's not if, it's when. Why is Pfizer already pushing for a booster at 6 months if this train of though doesn't have legs?

 

[HappyMan]

I have already told you that my earlier comment was made on an article that has been edited. It doesn't change my basic opinion. The vaccine isn't going to be effective for a long time. Six months, twelve months, we will need another shot. It's not if, it's when. Why is Pfizer already pushing for a booster at 6 months if this train of though doesn't have legs?

I'd think the answer to that question would be obvious to someone who is skeptical of pharmaceutical companies. They view even a miniscule increase in positive outcomes as a win-win situation when it allows them to sell more product. This is somewhat commonly seen in their treatment of patents: https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/perspectives/drug-patents-abuse/index.html

I'll just point out that skepticism of pharmaceutical companies, who's mission is to make money (while providing benefit to customers) and skepticism of the government agencies that regulate pharmaceuticals, who's mission is to protect the public, are different things entirely.

Are you basing your opinion regarding the long term efficacy of vaccines on anything in particular? (I ask because it has been pointed out that your cited source does not provide a basis for such an opinion.)

 

[Hawk256]

I'd think the answer to that question would be obvious to someone who is skeptical of pharmaceutical companies. They view even a miniscule increase in positive outcomes as a win-win situation when it allows them to sell more product. This is somewhat commonly seen in their treatment of patents: https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/12/perspectives/drug-patents-abuse/index.html

I'll just point out that skepticism of pharmaceutical companies, who's mission is to make money (while providing benefit to customers) and skepticism of the government agencies that regulate pharmaceuticals, who's mission is to protect the public, are different things entirely.

Are you basing your opinion regarding the long term efficacy of vaccines on anything in particular? (I ask because it has been pointed out that your cited source does not provide a basis for such an opinion.)

They will need the science to prove that booster at six months is necessary and It looks like thy have it. Israel is already giving the third shot after six months starting with 60 and ups. https://apnews.com/article/middle-e...rus-pandemic-775e772a7507bcab708e9eea4bdcc50a