DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[HappyMan]

I know I am gonna get thrown at again for my answer, but why would the fact that the person is known to somebody (here or somewhere else) make a difference in your opinion ?

The answers were not very glamorous for sure, but they were supposed to be from the heart ?

I thought of that person as a hypothetical person, not a real person with personal circumstances. I answered the question (which nobody asked) "what do you think about entitled people in general?" without thinking that there was an actual, specific, person attached. Those general statements were harsher than what I would say to an individual.

If you asked me "what do you think about people who leave their dog at home for a day without feeding it", I would think and say different things than if you said, "I forgot to feed the dog today". In the first case I assume this is the person's normal behavior. In the second case I assume this is exceptional behavior.

 

[Bad_azz]

I think that no matter if it is in here or elsewhere online people can be quite insensitive, or downright awful.
I always (almost always depending on the status of tea levels in my system) try to take the time to temper & form my responses into a way that conveys my message and does the least harm.
I try never to attack anyone for how they are.
Anxiety , depression and stress disorders are a real thing. The impact upon people with these issue from online bullying is real. &. documented.
When someone posts something that may appear really out there, I try to discern if it is trolling, lack of education, some kind of mental health issue or just a mean streak.
Not as easy online as face to face.
I never take things said to or about me to heart be they good or bad unless it is from people in my circle of real life people.
However when someone brings a friend into it & they are not able or around to defend themselves I jump in.
I am protective like that.
If I class someone as a friend then I am a loyal friend & won't sit back.

A little consideration of how our words impact upon others can only be a good thing no?

 

[centurion]

Random question, has anyone noticed some people being more fearful than needed and a bit entitled(to a degree) about even going out to do things they need to do?

Here is the context of why I ask. On an expat group on Facebook, a person asked a question about needing to go to immigration for finger prints and photos in the visa renewal. She wanted to know if it could be done remotely(poster admitted it was a long shot). The reasons where: unvaccinated(wants to get it, but says it is not available), would need to get a Grab/GoJek/Taxi to the immigration office(recirculationg air/no idea who has been in there before), and not comfortable taking the mask off for the photos.

Why entitlement? Someone asked because the OP was complaining about it not being able to be done remotely. OP then goes on about how they have lived in Indonesia for 12 years, own and operate a company, don't live in an expat area, fully intergrated into Indonesian life, tried to correct someone who said(mockingly) she is fluent in Bahasa Indonesia(apparently it is Indonesian if you are speaking English), not left the house for 490 days, and wants to switch immigration offices to one closer. The comments even from people who were giving the OP helpful advice, the OP seemed to respond in an entitled mindset.

I saw the post on FB, that person should visit a doctor (not the covid one).

 

[ChrisTex]

That happens to be a friend of mine and I am actually really pissed off with you for dragging that crap in here & mocking her for it.
She has her reasons for what she is asking. She may not have come back brilliantly but really there were a lot of awful comments and to be fair the people responding read like a bunch of schoolkid bullies. so leave her out of it in here or I shall really weigh in.

Deleted.

 

[Jaime C]

I had to renew my Kitap last October during Covid. Thankfully my wife is very good at paperwork.

Even though I have severe knee and lower back pain, with nothing more than Tylenol or Ibuprofen, I still made the trek to imigrasi Bandung, and up and down those stairs to get my photo, and fingerprints taken.

I didn’t get any shortcuts, or special lines. Sit on the bench like normal. Wait until it’s your turn.

 

[harryopal1]

Midday news CNN TV Singapore carried a report that vaccinated people are as likely to carry the Delta mutation as unvaccinated. This would suggest that even with a vaccination passport, testing on arrival in most countries will be required with the probability of immediately being quarantined if a test shows positive. There have already been many cases of people testing negative before boarding flights and testing positive at the destination. This pushes out the notion of a rapid return to international tourism. The possibility of being quarantined at your destination looms as a severe disincentive to would be travelers.

 

[Hawk256]

Midday news CNN TV Singapore carried a report that vaccinated people are as likely to carry the Delta mutation as unvaccinated. This would suggest that even with a vaccination passport, testing on arrival in most countries will be required with the probability of immediately being quarantined if a test shows positive. There have already been many cases of people testing negative before boarding flights and testing positive at the destination. This pushes out the notion of a rapid return to international tourism. The possibility of being quarantined at your destination looms as a severe disincentive to would be travelers.

It looks like the fully vaccinated are likely to spread it as well because of the viral load. https://www.fox8live.com/2021/07/28...sease-experts-point-variants-characteristics/

 

[ChrisTex]

There have already been many cases of people testing negative before boarding flights and testing positive at the destination. This pushes out the notion of a rapid return to international tourism. The possibility of being quarantined at your destination looms as a severe disincentive to would be travelers.

Were these short or long haul flights? I would be costly, but personally I would do the pcr tests 2 weeks before departure, 1 week prior, and one right before departure. To me this would be more accurate and it might help in terms of contact tracing and being 100% certain prior to arrival.

 

[Hawk256]

Were these short or long haul flights? I would be costly, but personally I would do the pcr tests 2 weeks before departure, 1 week prior, and one right before departure. To me this would be more accurate and it might help in terms of contact tracing and being 100% certain prior to arrival.

What are the benefits of taking a PCR at 2 weeks and 1 week? You can catch COVID one second after the test, so even the one right before departure isn't guaranteed. Maybe there is something I am missing.

 

[HappyMan]

Vaccinated people still less likely to contract the disease, less likely to suffer sever symptoms of the disease, and less likely to transmit the disease... But not by as much of a margin, when comparing Delta to other variants. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/29/cdc-mask-guidance/

In tabletop game terms, Alpha was the level 1 boss, laying out the level 1 unvaccinated on a 5 (d20). All the vaccinated were laughing it up because they were level 3 with Lucky, forcing rerolls. Now, here comes along the level 2 boss, Delta. He's badder in every way. The level 1 unvaccinated are now rolling new characters at an unprecedented rate, while the occasional level 3 vaccinated falls to a nat 20.

I should get some sleep.

 

[harryopal1]

This week an Australian doctor was slammed by Federal politicians for charging upwards of $300 for a consultation and vaccination. The US Peterson Center Health Tracker posted "... Data from 93 hospitals with listed prices yielded 203 distinct prices for diagnostic tests. The prices ranged between $20 – $1,419 per diagnostic test, with a median of $148. Nearly half of test charges (47%) were priced between $100 – $199, and one in five (20%) were priced above $300. Peterson Center "

It is hard to imagine that air fares will go back quickly to the pre-Covid prices. Previously one could get a flight from Townsville, north Queensland in Aus to Bali for usually just over $100. While airlines post optimistic reports suggesting back on track maybe late next year that really does not seem realistic.

In the short term people get caught in the nightmarish situation of an Australian family wanting to take their 5 children back to Australia for health reasons and found no commercial flights were available. They could not afford one option with a chartered flight that was to cost them $35,000. And even getting back there is the added cost of quarantine.

Meanwhile the staggering economic costs of the new Sydney lockdown are indicators of the difficulties managing national economies. We are a long way from a "new normal."

 

[Balifrog]

Midday news CNN TV Singapore carried a report that vaccinated people are as likely to carry the Delta mutation as unvaccinated. This would suggest that even with a vaccination passport, testing on arrival in most countries will be required with the probability of immediately being quarantined if a test shows positive. There have already been many cases of people testing negative before boarding flights and testing positive at the destination. This pushes out the notion of a rapid return to international tourism. The possibility of being quarantined at your destination looms as a severe disincentive to would be travelers.

Basic maths !
We know that vaccination does NOT prevend becoming infected, it simply "improves" the body's natural immunity and thereby avoid the infection to make you really ill. In most cases.
So, this being stated (and true), when you have 70% of the population vaccinated it is clear that this 70% will be the majority of the positive cases.
In other words and as visible in the table here under the % positives will reflect the % of vaccinated people in the population.

But the vaccine being a help a said above, a very low number of those people will fall really ill or need hospitalization.

Hence as I have said numerous times, the vaccine will reduce the hospitalization, the ICU cases, and deaths but it will NOT eliminate the spread of the virus.

Some will argue that it spreads slowier, etc...but this are only words, NOTHING of which has been SCIENTIFICALLY proved. And if anything, the above Israel table confirms the reality, i.e. that the vaccine does NOT reduce the propagation of the virus.
Hence the mask masquerade and mandatory PCR tests continues.

 

[ChrisTex]

What are the benefits of taking a PCR at 2 weeks and 1 week? You can catch COVID one second after the test, so even the one right before departure isn't guaranteed. Maybe there is something I am missing.

I will humor you for now. since you didn't read what I wrote completely. Yes you can get covid at any time, but you could also slip in the lobby(twist an ankle, fall, throw out your back, die, etc...) too. Hell, you are also likely to have a grumbling stomach eating from a warung despite eating at the same place for 15 years. Nothing is guarenteed.

That is why I had asked the question which you ignored, were the flights in what Harryopal shared, short or long haul? It makes a big difference in how long you are exposed and the odds* of you catching covid. Now in Indonesia's case, you are likely to get tested anyways unless you stop off in another country for a few weeks before going on to a stricter country. * Never tell me the odds[/Han Solo].

Getting the PCR test 2, 1, and right before might become a requirement in itself as a way to check people prior to arrival. Plus as I said, it can be used for contact tracing.

So ya you missed a few things.

 

[Hawk256]

I will humor you for now. since you didn't read what I wrote completely. Yes you can get covid at any time, but you could also slip in the lobby(twist an ankle, fall, throw out your back, die, etc...) too. Hell, you are also likely to have a grumbling stomach eating from a warung despite eating at the same place for 15 years. Nothing is guarenteed.

That is why I had asked the question which you ignored, were the flights in what Harryopal shared, short or long haul? It makes a big difference in how long you are exposed and the odds* of you catching covid. Now in Indonesia's case, you are likely to get tested anyways unless you stop off in another country for a few weeks before going on to a stricter country. * Never tell me the odds[/Han Solo].

Getting the PCR test 2, 1, and right before might become a requirement in itself as a way to check people prior to arrival. Plus as I said, it can be used for contact tracing.

So ya you missed a few things.

Thanks for humoring me but I guess I'm still missing something. I still don't understand what benefit you get from 3 tests spaced over 3 weeks that you wouldn't get from 1 test the day before or the day of travel. I guess you are technically right that long haul flights have a higher risk but I still don't see how that relates to the benefit doing 3 tests.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Midday news CNN TV Singapore carried a report that vaccinated people are as likely to carry the Delta mutation as unvaccinated. This would suggest that even with a vaccination passport, testing on arrival in most countries will be required with the probability of immediately being quarantined if a test shows positive. There have already been many cases of people testing negative before boarding flights and testing positive at the destination. This pushes out the notion of a rapid return to international tourism. The possibility of being quarantined at your destination looms as a severe disincentive to would be travelers.

I think most hotels in Bali need to start converting into something else. Will tourism without quarantine even return within 5 years?

 

[ChrisTex]

Thanks for humoring me but I guess I'm still missing something. I still don't understand what benefit you get from 3 tests spaced over 3 weeks that you wouldn't get from 1 test the day before or the day of travel. I guess you are technically right that long haul flights have a higher risk but I still don't see how that relates to the benefit doing 3 tests.

It isn't the first time you have missed things and I am not going to spell it out for you. You are on your own.

 

[Hawk256]

T

It isn't the first time you have missed things and I am not going to spell it out for you. You are on your own.

Thanks for the courtesy. I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[Balifrog]

In complement to my previous post on Israel :
The CDC just released a report confirming the same thing .

• On Friday, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) released data supporting the view that the COVID-19 Delta variant can cause infections even among fully vaccinated people.
• The CDC report was based on a COVID-19 outbreak in Massachusetts, where 69% of the eligible population are fully vaccinated.
• Out of 469 COVID-19 cases, 74% were among those who had received both COVID-19 shots from Pfizer / BioNTech and Moderna or single-dose vaccine from Johnson & Johnson .
• After genetic sequencing 133 individuals, the Delta variant of the coronavirus was detected in 89% of samples, indicating the prevalence of the highly contagious variant.
• Notably, 274 (79%) of vaccinated patients with so-called “breakthrough infections” were symptomatic. Out of five hospitalizations, four were fully vaccinated, but there were no deaths, the federal agency said.
• The CDC calls the vaccination the most important strategy to prevent the severe form of COVID-19 and death.
• However, citing the findings of the analysis, the agency says that tougher public health measures such as indoor masking are likely irrespective of vaccination status even in areas “without substantial or high COVID-19 transmission.

Again, to the few nice BM who shot me down in flames previously.... the vaccine is NOT a miracle solution. But, yes it protects the vaccinated from severe consequences in most cases.
Amen.

 

[Hawk256]

Another report from the CDC says that "Once infected, though, vaccinated people are just as contagious as those without that protection — meaning they need to wear a mask and keep their distance to avoid passing on the virus." Masks aren't going anywhere for a long, long time.

Delta variant substantially more contagious than other variants, CDC presentation warns

Evidence is mounting about the dangers of the delta variant and how mask-wearing is essential to bring it under control, according to a CDC memo.

www.yahoo.com

 

[harryopal1]

Another report from the CDC says that "Once infected, though, vaccinated people are just as contagious as those without that protection — meaning they need to wear a mask and keep their distance to avoid passing on the virus." Masks aren't going anywhere for a long, long time.

Delta variant substantially more contagious than other variants, CDC presentation warns

Evidence is mounting about the dangers of the delta variant and how mask-wearing is essential to bring it under control, according to a CDC memo.

www.yahoo.com

I imagine if you have been vaccinated you may be unaware you are positive. Just another twist in the tricky business of trying to keep on top of this problem.