DON'T PANIC.... well, maybe a little bit.

[Tupai Hitam]

Indonesia's official policy is to cover up the extent of the problem by lying to the public because it fears negative financial and social impacts.
An expert staff member at the Executive Office of the President, Dany Amrul Ichdan, said on Wednesday: “We cannot be as transparent as other countries. […] We have to be realistic about the behavior of Indonesians. When the first two cases were announced, people started panic buying, the [stock market index] dropped. […] There are many factors that make us different, our psychographic, lifestyle, character, mindset. And that’s our challenge.” Dany said a matter of concern was not just a nation’s health but also a nation’s economic conditions.
Indonesia has also been careful to highlight the "foreign" element. Claiming that Japanese people brought and spread the virus here. And waiting until a foreigner died here before announcing the "first" fatality. Too cowardly and too stupid to reveal the Indonesian fatalities.
Definitely time for some strong and decisive leadership. Yet rather than following the Chinese example of implementing lockdowns, Indonesia has extended the Ramadan holiday period and is encouraging people to travel. Young Indonesians can get the virus and be asymptomatic or only mildly affected and recover, but they will transmit it to older and infirm compatriots, who won't be so fortunate. But let's just pretend they died cos they were already old or had dengue or anything but COVID-19. Gotta put money before people.

 

[BPNBound]

Anyone seen this. Has it been posted. Quite fascinating

What we now so far - SIN

 

[Ruserious]

We have to be realistic about the behavior of Indonesians. When the first two cases were announced, people started panic buying, the [stock market index] dropped.

The behaviors he mentioned is exactly the same in every country. Why do Indonesians think they are different?

 

[dafluff]

The behaviors he mentioned is exactly the same in every country. Why do Indonesians think they are different?

It's the same BS argument for trying to implement any rational measure in Indonesia. It's always "We're different...bla bla bla". I remember during my school years here that a common topic is contrasting Indonesian culture (Budaya Ketimuran) vs western/foreign culture. Naturally Indonesian culture is always presented in a good light. This was applied to just about anything: why we can't have a liberal democracy, why we can't have sex education, why we can't criticize the government, why our school uniforms have to be modest etc.

I read a comment yesterday that the Indonesian government is handling this crisis exactly like a stereotypical Javanese family would handle a household crisis: Don't admit anything is wrong to the children (ie. the public), and if there is any changes in policy the children just need to follow the new policy without question.

 

[ChrisTex]

Is it bad that I consider this forum as the best place to get news and updated information?

 

[dafluff]

Is it bad that I consider this forum as the best place to get news and updated information?

It speaks highly of the forum, but overall, that is a bad thing.

 

[dannyboy]

I really hope this is the case - but I just don't think they are testing enough here to have any clarity on it.

I also hope that this is the case, though our history with previous flu pandemic seems to indicate otherwise.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3687026/

 

[dafluff]

These are 4 persons only. Italy has more than 6000 cases and almost 1000 dead, and Italy is the 8th economy in the world. The epidemic started 2 weeks ago.

It is not 4 persons ONLY. It is 4 persons that were NOT detected by Indonesia, despite some having presented with symptoms at a local hospital. It only came to light because they were 1%ers with means to travel to Singapore to get treatment. You should be able to extrapolate from that.

Anyway, as far as Indonesia is concerned, I think we're well past trying to contain it from abroad. The government should immediately put steps into place to maximize social distancing. This means no schools, no gatherings, no mass prayers, etc. It means massive public education campaigns on how to social distance. It should be on every other commercial on TV. And for god's sake, stop hanging hopes on unproven stuff like horse milk or that Indonesians are somehow unique, or that tropical weather is in anyway mitigating this virus.

 

[gemima]

Anyone seen this. Has it been posted. Quite fascinating

What we now so far - SIN

This is just amazing - Singapore are definitely the gold standard on handling this. Beautiful presentation of the stats. Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Dave70]

Just a bad dream; hospitals are full, people are dying, and we haven't seen the worst yet.

Hope the government do some drastic measures before it's too late. And don't think about "exiling" infected people to Pulau Galang. It may be too late already for that as the island is not big enough (if cases rise rapidly).

 

[dafluff]

As a perspective of how big the iceberg underneath could be, here is Ohio's Department of Health Director Amy Acton, MD, MPH:

"We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."

Official confirmed number is 5 (tested), with 30 tested negative. Good news is, if that is the true number, then the fatality rate is much lower than we currently think it is, at least until medical facilities are getting overwhelmed.

Ohio health official estimates 100,000 people in state have coronavirus

A top health official in Ohio estimated on Thursday that more than 100,000 people in the state have coronavirus, a shockingly high number that underscores the limited testing so far.Ohio …

thehill.com

Ohio Department of Health confirms fifth coronavirus case in state: ODH update

The Ohio Department of Health confirmed Thursday that a fifth person tested positive for the novel coronavirus

www.cleveland.com

 

[dafluff]

Here is an excellent article explaining Indonesia's "methodology" in dealing with COVID-19

The Pigs and the Virus

Dear Subscribers: In the interests of information, Hukum has decided to follow the model set by other publications and is publishing COVID-19 coverage outside its usual paywall.

hukum.substack.com

 

[make_batik_great_again]

And for god's sake, stop hanging hopes on unproven stuff like horse milk or that Indonesians are somehow unique, or that tropical weather is in anyway mitigating this virus.

I still hope that the tropical weather is a factor. But, anyway, of course you are right that it is very risky to put all of your faith into that. People should be told to keep distance, avoid crowded places and taught about hygiene etc. Should be easy to say at least sth like this: "We have it under control. But in order to ensure that it will stay like this in the future, consider doing or not doing this, this and this. Situation in other countries is bad, so please follow our recommendations."

Still, the virus itself is one topic. But the economical effects make me even more afraid. Don't get me wrong. Avoiding death and ensure health of people is more important than economy, money, etc. But huge negative economical effects could lead to problems regarding life and health in the future as well. And if I watch the development on the stock market or the loss of value of some currencies, it makes me worry about the future situation in some countries.

 

[Tupai Hitam]

Is it bad that I consider this forum as the best place to get news and updated information?

This is what happens when the government lies to the public. The people go to social media in search of "news", "facts" and "protocol" -- but much of the stuff being shared is unreliable or even erroneous. I wonder if a "President Prabowo" would have handled this better? He's defense minister now. What's he doing? Looks like focusing on grandstanding (an eye on 2024 elections), enshrining himself as the main man of Gerindra, and buying new toys for the military.
In the US, Trump can delegate to Pence to handle the COVID19 response. But imagine if Jokowi tried to delegate to his deputy! Well, it would work if Jusuf Kalla were still vice president. But in the absence of strong leadership, come on Prabs and show us you can actually do something good for the country by putting an end to the COVID19 denials and outlining some meaningful, albeit tough, official policies.

 

[Tupai Hitam]

Here is an excellent article explaining Indonesia's "methodology" in dealing with COVID-19

The Pigs and the Virus

Dear Subscribers: In the interests of information, Hukum has decided to follow the model set by other publications and is publishing COVID-19 coverage outside its usual paywall.

hukum.substack.com

Excellent article, indeed.

 

[Helpful Herbert]

Exactly, once bankruptcies, bank failures, job losses etc. hit, this will get extremely ugly. I think it is that prospect that is spooking the markets.
I feel I should take advantage of the dollar being almost 15,000, but will my Indonesian bank still be around in a few months?

 

[make_batik_great_again]

Exactly, once bankruptcies, bank failures, job losses etc. hit, this will get extremely ugly. I think it is that prospect that is spooking the markets.
I feel I should take advantage of the dollar being almost 15,000, but will my Indonesian bank still be around in a few months?

Same with Euro exch. rate. Two hours ago, it has been above 16,700 IDR. Very tempting. But I wonder by how much it could increase within the next days or weeks, but also how much safer it is to keep Euro instead of IDR?

 

[dafluff]

As a perspective of how big the iceberg underneath could be, here is Ohio's Department of Health Director Amy Acton, MD, MPH:

"We know now, just the fact of community spread, says that at least 1 percent, at the very least, 1 percent of our population is carrying this virus in Ohio today," Acton said. "We have 11.7 million people. So the math is over 100,000. So that just gives you a sense of how this virus spreads and is spreading quickly."

For balance, a counter argument for the numbers above

 

[centurion]

Jakarta Post quite brave article today, calling officials incompetent doofoses.

COVID-19: Mr. President, you need professional help - Opinion - The Jakarta Post

Terawan is not trained in public speaking. He needs coaching in effective communications or should hire a professional public relations officer to do the talking for him. Until then, he’d better butt out.

www.thejakartapost.com

 

[harryopal1]

Jakarta Post quite brave article today, calling officials incometent doofoses.

https://www.thejakartapost.com/academia/2020/03/13/covid-19-communication-president-jokowi-you-need-p

I tried that link but got an error message. I wonder if the article has been pulled as going to the website does not have an article as described. Perhaps threats of prosecution under the new false information laws.