Businesses Not Being Open About Cost in Goods and Services Forum

[atlantis]

One reason I asked was to learn if you held yourself to the same standard applied to bludgeon Van H.

You must be kidding here. To support his claim VH just had to copy/paste a PM he received in THIS forum and tell us the amount quoted by his agent and what was included. Just this. Pretty easy, init? It would have taken him no more than 5 minutes.
What you asked me was to browse through over hundreds of threads of a forum I am banned from, have very limited or no access to, and where only a small part of the threads seem to be accessible per forum, to sort out 24 links where an OP has been badgered for allegedly having a "bule" price/inflated price. Yet, as I said previously, after investigating these ads I have found out that they were also posted on Indonesian forums, with the same price, without triggering the same sour and disparaging comments from self proclaimed real estate experts. The rare differences I found were the fact that price were quoted in rupiah in the Indonesian forums and in USD in LIIF but the amount was equivalent.

I have been moderating LIIF for more than 8 years. Asking me to find 24 threads means 3 threads per year on average. Do you seriously think I wouldn't have found them if I had my mods privileges? I maintain, there has been dozens of such threads.
I am not surprised you don't recall dozens but only "a few". It wasn't your job to moderate the forum, but mine. Perhaps it shouldn't surprise you that my memory is a bit more loaded than yours on the matter. I would however really want to encourage you to read "a few" of your posts there for a refresher and a better understanding of what I meant.

 

[dafluff]

What we seem to be getting is a we do it our way and talk all you want but screw any suggestions you have. As you see now, it has pretty much dwindled down to just me vs you. I guess that rule where you can't argue with Mods is being noticed. So, this will be my last post in this thread. Really, what's the use? Not bitter. I find that the Mods on here do an excellent job but, I think you are wrong on this pricing stuff by just ignoring it. JMHO

For as long as this forum has existed, no one has yet been infracted or even warned for arguing with Mods. In return, we have been disparaged both publicly and privately in PMs by a very small number of members over policy disagreement.

Any reasonable person can understand that some suggestions will be taken, others rejected. Most can then move on, agreeing to disagree, without revisiting the same issue over and over. Or at least give it a little wait and see time.

I also feel that everything that needs to be said about this issue has been said, our reasoning pretty much fallen on deaf ears, so in that respect I agree, what's the use?

 

[El_Goretto]

For me it is about the lack of price. I suppose there were some advertisers who felt badgered because members viewed their prices as too high, but I can not recall that being wide spread. Can you provide dozens (24 would be fine) of examples to back up your claim?

ps I thought the cheese thread was nothing short of hilarious. Maybe it was serious business for some, but in context, more like a comedy routine.

If one thing went well with the update at LIIF is that the search function works. That easily let me search for all the posts from waarmstrong posted in the housing listings and cyber garage sale sections and list them in descending chronological order.

With 53 pages at 15 posts per page and considering that 1 out of every 2 or 3 posts is one of your snarky one-liners, I think we've easily reached the requested 24 examples with your posts alone.

 

[waarmstrong]

You must be kidding here. To support his claim VH just had to copy/paste a PM he received in THIS forum and tell us the amount quoted by his agent and what was included. Just this. Pretty easy, init? It would have taken him no more than 5 minutes.
What you asked me was to browse through over hundreds of threads of a forum I am banned from, have very limited or no access to, and where only a small part of the threads seem to be accessible per forum, to sort out 24 links where an OP has been badgered for allegedly having a "bule" price/inflated price. Yet, as I said previously, after investigating these ads I have found out that they were also posted on Indonesian forums, with the same price, without triggering the same sour and disparaging comments from self proclaimed real estate experts. The rare differences I found were the fact that price were quoted in rupiah in the Indonesian forums and in USD in LIIF but the amount was equivalent.

I have been moderating LIIF for more than 8 years. Asking me to find 24 threads means 3 threads per year on average. Do you seriously think I wouldn't have found them if I had my mods privileges? I maintain, there has been dozens of such threads.
I am not surprised you don't recall dozens but only "a few". It wasn't your job to moderate the forum, but mine. Perhaps it shouldn't surprise you that my memory is a bit more loaded than yours on the matter. I would however really want to encourage you to read "a few" of your posts there for a refresher and a better understanding of what I meant.

No, not kidding. I was kind of expecting to be attacked, but thought I might get a reference of two -- at least more than additional unreferenced claims.

 

[waarmstrong]

If one thing went well with the update at LIIF is that the search function works. That easily let me search for all the posts from waarmstrong posted in the housing listings and cyber garage sale sections and list them in descending chronological order.

With 53 pages at 15 posts per page and considering that 1 out of every 2 or 3 posts is one of your snarky one-liners, I think we've easily reached the requested 24 examples with your posts alone.

Obviously searching the other forum is not so difficult as has been suggested elsewhere. Perhaps you could find the "dozens of examples in the former forum of advertisers who put their price and yet have been badgered."

Thanks for the trip down memory lane. Anyone who cares to wade through 800 or so of my posts will find that almost all are rather mundane, ordinary, relating to things like baby cribs, treadmills, cars and other second hand purchases as well as houses for sale, among many other things of interest to me. I do have a house in Jakarta, so the prices are of more than passing interest as they are a window into the value of my place.

Getting yourself understood with few words, I think is a good thing. My posts tend to be short, but to suggest that up to 50% are snarky one-liners is a self-serving view that is simply not correct.

To the matter actually under discussion: few of my old posts deal with commercial vendors posting goods and services ads. But when I do run across one that fails to address an important consideration to essential all potential buyers, namely the price of said goods or services on offer, I have said something such as:

When vendors fail to address in their ad copy the price of goods or services on offer, rest assured, the item for sale will not be a bargain.

Perhaps you consider that snarky. I don't. What is more, is such a comment off topic or not? That is the matter under discussion.

 

[Puspawarna]

When vendors fail to address in their ad copy the price of goods or services on offer, rest assured, the item for sale will not be a bargain.Perhaps you consider that snarky. I don't. What is more, is such a comment off topic or not? That is the matter under discussion.

May I refer you to my earlier post - salient part quoted below. Obviously (or I thought it was obvious - apologies if my writing style is unclear), polite requests for clarification on price are neither off-topic nor impermissible. It's the rude part that is unwanted. If you want to ask "how much?" go right ahead. You could even say, on hearing a price, "Oh too bad - at that price I am not interested. I got one last month for half that, so your price seems too high."

A common justification for challenging suspect advertisers is to protect the unwary. By all means, posters should feel free to proceed with such a noble endeavor. But realize, you will be more effective if you are polite and ask genuine questions.

When I read a sarcastic post in an unfamiliar environment, I might just think that the person voicing the sarcasm is a jerk. If, on the other hand, I read polite but penetrating questions, and the advertiser doesn’t have a good response – then I will recognize where the problem lies.

To me, it’s actually much more entertaining to remain calm and reasonable while effectively deconstructing the questionable claims of a shady advertiser. It calls for greater finesse, and is commensurately rewarding. I urge those of you who have doubts about advertisers to give it a try.

I hope that answers your question, but if not feel free to query further.

 

[atlantis]

Obviously searching the other forum is not so difficult as has been suggested elsewhere. Perhaps you could find the "dozens of examples in the former forum of advertisers who put their price and yet have been badgered.".

It's a pain for me to browse LIIF as a guest but I'll throw you a few bones just taken out of the 1st page.

First page of the link: http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.o...andak-very-near-to-kemang?p=717867#post717867
You have a guy who has a house for sell, advertised the price and guess what? Disparaging comments and gratuitous assumption like "probably been "renovated" as they say, fill the cracks with mashed potato & slop on a coat of whitewash".
What the fuck?

Stay with us, still on first page: http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.o...ut-all-must-go-buy-resell?p=716802#post716802
A garage sale. The poor guy does everything by the book as requested, price and description of what is to be sold but one sentence which seems not to be in line with Mr waarmstrong who feel the urge to post "A "no negotiations" garage sale -- I guess there is always a first time."

Did I say mr Waarmie? Still first page. http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.o...-bellagio-residence-56sqm?p=700361#post700361
An ad, some price, but Oh God, pics don't suit Mr Waarmie's taste. "That the place is so small, I can understand why you might post side-ways pictures in hopes of creating a more spacious impression. Unfortunately, I don't think its working." Who the heck do you think you are for God sake to invade and spoil threads, putting down advertisers and/or their goods that they have bought with (I assume) hard earned cash? They have been working. Can't you respect that? Do you think that they want to readr your comments and, perhaps more importantly, do you think that people who can't afford more than 56 sqm wants to read your comment? You are not even in the market to buy it FFS. Is that so hard for you to refrain from constant snarkiness?

Still first page of the link: http://www.livinginindonesiaforum.o...gs/50050-land-for-sale-bali-indonesia-1280-m²
A land for sale, price is given along with all requirement. first post answering the thread: "So another quick knock up development complex in the middle of nowhere with too many houses packed together like sardines.
No thanks."

Do we go for the second page together, Waarmstrong? Or would the four examples out of just the first page be enough? Tell you what, I am gonna leave you here. I think that we can rest our case. We (the Mod Team), have a life and a work and I believe we have not only spent enough time to support our claims, but also point you what you urgently need to modify in your attitude in this community.

Just this first page of the link shows that this is not the price being or not being included in an OP which makes advertising threads going south far to often, but the Attitude of a very tiny group of posters who have little respect for others and far too much time in their hand.
Salam.