Banking question for Indonesian citizens overseas...

[pantaiema]

I use Wise regularly, because the rates are much better than the rates of my bank (ING) in Holland. I checked that 2 years ago. But I didnot checked this recently. Not knowing that the banks improved " their game". Also didnot know that -maybe- withdrawing money with my ING card at the ATM machine here could be cheaper than transfering money to my Indonesian bank account. I will check this today.

Update: I tranferred just now money using Wise EUR 1000. Recieving IDR 15,195 836. Exchange rate is IDR 15,287.1 And the fee is EUR 5.97

Withdrawing same amount of IDR 15,195,836 at ATM machine would cost EUR 18,10. + EUR 3,50 for using the bank card in a foreign country. I calculated that with a special ING-app. So that is for me a NO then.
Problem also in real life in Indonesia.. only limited amount of rupiah is possible to withdraw at ATM machibe. Max 1,250,000 IDR.

So, I stick to Wise aja.

You are lucky you do not get what is so called the card from hell. With the Majority of Creditcards, Debitcards will be using Master/Visa Exchnage rate, but you get hammered by fees from several parties: e.g your banks, Local Banks (fee and exchange worse rate), ATM owner. taken their shares if you use it to get cash from foreign ATM.

To get the trury Visa/Mastercard exchange rate you will need to use "specialist" card. Example of that availbale in Europe is the one I mention above.

N26 is available in the Netherlands.

Download the N26 App

n26.com

But I have not applied N26 from the Netherlands, so you will need to do your research before making decision.

 

[Samoerai]

You are lucky you do not get what is so called the card from hell. With the Majority of Creditcards, Debitcards will be using Master/Visa Exchnage rate, but you get hammered by fees from several parties: e.g your banks, Local Banks (fee and exchange worse rate), ATM owner. taken their shares if you use it to get cash from foreign ATM.

To get the trury Visa/Mastercard exchange rate you will need to use "specialist" card. Example of that availbale in Europe is the one I mention above.

N26 is available in the Netherlands.

Download the N26 App

n26.com

But I have not applied N26 from the Netherlands, so you will need to do your research before making decision.

N26 got it.

 

[pantaiema]

N26 got it.

Well done. You might be able to get physical card. This card is very famous amount travellers to multiple countries. If my memories serves there is also cashback on foreign purchases, but the cashback is very tiny.

 

[Samoerai]

Well done. You might be able to get physical card. This card is very famous amount travellers to multiple countries. If my memories serves there is also cashback on foreign purchases, but the cashback is very tiny.

Once I am back in Holland I will apply for it, if the reviews are good.

 

[Samoerai]

I use Wise regularly, because the rates are much better than the rates of my bank (ING) in Holland. I checked that 2 years ago. But I didnot checked this recently. Not knowing that the banks improved " their game". Also didnot know that -maybe- withdrawing money with my ING card at the ATM machine here could be cheaper than transfering money to my Indonesian bank account. I will check this today.

Update: I tranferred just now money using Wise EUR 1000. Recieving IDR 15,195 836. Exchange rate is IDR 15,287.1 And the fee is EUR 5.97

Withdrawing same amount of IDR 15,195,836 at ATM machine would cost EUR 18,10. + EUR 3,50 for using the bank card in a foreign country. I calculated that with a special ING-app. So that is for me a NO then.
Problem also in real life in Indonesia.. only limited amount of rupiah is possible to withdraw at ATM machine (batas dari bank Indonesia): max 1,250,000 IDR.

So, I stick to Wise aja.

At the same day, I really withdraw 1 juta Rupiah at the ATM machine. Later I checked what ING bank took from my bank account: 70 euro 22 cent. So I calculated that withdrawing IDR 15,195,836 at the ATM machine (if possible in 1 time) would cost 1000 euro + 13 euro 86 cent + 3 euro 50 cent for using the bank card in a foreign country. A bit different (less expensive) than calculated with the ING app, but still way more expensive than transfering with Wise.

 

[pantaiema]

At the same day, I really withdraw 1 juta Rupiah at the ATM machine. Later I checked what ING bank took from my bank account: 70 euro 22 cent. So I calculated that withdrawing IDR 15,195,836 at the ATM machine (if possible in 1 time) would cost 1000 euro + 13 euro 86 cent + 3 euro 50 cent for using the bank card in a foreign country. A bit different (less expensive) than calculated with the ING app, but still way more expensive than transfering with Wise.

If you get truly Master/VISA card exchange rate with with no fees added you should get this result.
(Calculate it with no fees)

Mastercard Currency Converter | Currency Exchange Rate Calculator

Mastercard currency converter tool calculates foreign exchange rates for all the major currencies worldwide to enable cross-border purchases and ATM transactions.

www.mastercard.us

or this for VISA

Currency Converter – Exchange Rate Calculator

Exchange Rates & Currency Conversion Calculator – Use the converter to get an indication of the rate you may receive when using your Visa card. Learn more.

www.visa.co.uk

The result should be close to this.

Xe Currency Converter - Live Exchange Rates Today

Calculate live currency and foreign exchange rates with the free Xe Currency Converter. Convert between all major global currencies, precious metals, and crypto with this currency calculator and view the live mid-market rates.

www.xe.com

They are different because the way and the frequency they are calculated is different. xe.com is mid market or normally known interbank exchange rate where the exchange rate changes multiple times in a day.

 

[fastpitch17]

Today at ATM figuring in Mandiri ATM fee I got 14,410 per US dollar when XE was showing 14,460. I have no US bank ATM fee.

 

[pantaiema]

Today at ATM figuring in Mandiri ATM fee I got 14,410 per US dollar when XE was showing 14,460. I have no US bank ATM fee.

Are you using specialist Zero fees Master/Visa debit card for foreign withdrawal??
I know BNI46, I also heard about CimbNiaga, Bank Mandiri do not charge any fees using their ATM. AFAIK About 3-4 years ago BCA did not charge but they have now charged fees for using their ATM this fee. This fee is different for Indonesian Local Bank debit card and foreign debit card..

 

[Samoerai]

I

Today at ATM figuring in Mandiri ATM fee I got 14,410 per US dollar when XE was showing 14,460. I have no US bank ATM fee.

Interesting. I didn't know XE.com ... thanks!

 

[Samoerai]

If you get truly Master/VISA card exchange rate with with no fees added you should get this result.
(Calculate it with no fees)

Mastercard Currency Converter | Currency Exchange Rate Calculator

Mastercard currency converter tool calculates foreign exchange rates for all the major currencies worldwide to enable cross-border purchases and ATM transactions.

www.mastercard.us

or this for VISA

Currency Converter – Exchange Rate Calculator

Exchange Rates & Currency Conversion Calculator – Use the converter to get an indication of the rate you may receive when using your Visa card. Learn more.

www.visa.co.uk

The result should be close to this.

Xe Currency Converter - Live Exchange Rates Today

Calculate live currency and foreign exchange rates with the free Xe Currency Converter. Convert between all major global currencies, precious metals, and crypto with this currency calculator and view the live mid-market rates.

www.xe.com

They are different because the way and the frequency they are calculated is different. xe.com is mid market or normally known interbank exchange rate where the exchange rate changes multiple times in a day.

I checked XE ... and compared to Wise. Wise has a better exchange rate, but a fee (5 euro 97 cents) where as XE calculate no fee (is that right?).

 

[pantaiema]

I checked XE ... and compared to Wise. Wise has a better exchange rate, but a fee (5 euro 97 cents) where as XE calculate no fee (is that right?).

Correct. XE.com is mid market or normally known interbank exchange rate where the big players, such as Duetsche Bank, HSBC, ING, MS, GS, JPC are using among each others. Just be aware the exchange rate changes multiple times in a day (even within minutes) due to the nature of currency conversion.
If you have "Revolut" card you get this exchange rate. If you have specialist no Fee VISA?MASTER debitcard you will get close to this.

Revolut | All-in-one Finance App for your Money | Revolut United Kingdom

Join 40+ million customers globally using Revolut to send money to 160+ countries, hold up-to 36 currencies in app, spend in 150+ currencies, and manage their money.

www.revolut.com

 

[rabbit_39]

What about using Wise's physical card? I have one for my business wise account. but have not used it yet in Indonesia.

 

[Samoerai]

What about using Wise's physical card? I have one for my business wise account. but have not used it yet in Indonesia.

Couple of years ago, I checked the reviews .. a lot very negative. So decided not to take a card.

Also I read (many) issues regarding credit cards that have been 'hacked', so people using your creditcard and the company (like Paypal) ask you to cover the debt.

I am very careful nowadays, because of my bad experience with PayPal ... I have money on my PayPal account, but cannot get to it, because of 2 way verification (one by sms to my phone number), but I changed my phone number. So, all sms are send to my old number.

There is no way to get to my PayPal account now. Impossible to change the phone numbers by yourself online. Customer Service cannot be reached. A lot(!) of other people also have the same problem as I can see on the reviews.

 

[fastpitch17]

My US bank card is by Master Card. My only choices are to use out bank cards with ATM or direct transfer with a 63 dollar transfer fee from my US bank. Something I may have to do while waiting for new vards since ours are expiring soon and the mail for us takes up to 5 months from the US if we get it at all.

Both XEnand Wise have refused my attempted transfers even after giving them all the information they requested and then some. Neither will actually give you a reason for not doing the transfer and XE went as far as closing my account. FedEx is US$150.00 and I get in 3 weeks.

 

[harryopal1]

Couple of years ago, I checked the reviews .. a lot very negative. So decided not to take a card.

I am very careful nowadays, because of my bad experience with PayPal ... I have money on my PayPal account, but cannot get to it, because of 2 way verification (one by sms to my phone number), but I changed my phone number. So, all sms are send to my old number.

There is no way to get to my PayPal account now. Impossible to change the phone numbers by yourself online. Customer Service cannot be reached. A lot(!) of other people also have the same problem as I can see on the reviews.

a-sha, I understand exactly your problem and as mobile numbers tend to change over time I have had this problem with several sites including Paypal, and was effectively locked out for several years. However, I eventually found a help number which is located in the Philippines and was able to resolve the problem. The number I called is 0282239500.

I was using Skype at the time and I think the call was routed via Australia so maybe dial 61 as the Aus dial in code and then 282239500.

Increasingly it seems large organizations do not wish to erode their profit line by employing people to waste time on servicing customers with problems. Amazon are running a deceptive advertising line by offering customers "free delivery." The problem is if you accept "free delivery", and it is hard to find an alternative, you have committed yourself to membership of some program which automatically bills you something over $50 a year. Very hard to find how to cancel the so called membership and extremely hard to get help. Amazon are being taken to court in the UK for this deceptive activity. I will no longer use Amazon but I am afraid that so many organizations want your business but try and avoid costs involved in servicing problems or opting out of some charge that you had not wanted.

Good luck.

 

[Samoerai]

a-sha, I understand exactly your problem and as mobile numbers tend to change over time I have had this problem with several sites including Paypal, and was effectively locked out for several years. However, I eventually found a help number which is located in the Philippines and was able to resolve the problem. The number I called is 0282239500.

I was using Skype at the time and I think the call was routed via Australia so maybe dial 61 as the Aus dial in code and then 282239500.

Increasingly it seems large organizations do not wish to erode their profit line by employing people to waste time on servicing customers with problems. Amazon are running a deceptive advertising line by offering customers "free delivery." The problem is if you accept "free delivery", and it is hard to find an alternative, you have committed yourself to membership of some program which automatically bills you something over $50 a year. Very hard to find how to cancel the so called membership and extremely hard to get help. Amazon are being taken to court in the UK for this deceptive activity. I will no longer use Amazon but I am afraid that so many organizations want your business but try and avoid costs involved in servicing problems or opting out of some charge that you had not wanted.

Good luck.

Wow, thanks for the phone number. I will try this to take care of my problem with Paypal. Hopefully this Customer Service desk picks up the phone. In Holland when you call them, you first have to put in your phonenumber (in my case the old one, it is recognized as an existing account) then put in a "code" they send to your account, but that code you do not have, because you cannot login to your account. It is frustrating how Paypal has set up their helpdesk.

Also thanks for the info and warning regarding free delivery Amazon.

 

[Samoerai]

Rupiah, btw, is down. You get more rupiah for your dollars/euro. I think because the USA/Fed increased the interest rate, today. The money (from investors) now leaving countries, like Indonesia.

 

[pantaiema]

Rupiah, btw, is down. You get more rupiah for your dollars/euro. I think because the USA/Fed increased the interest rate, today. The money (from investors) now leaving countries, like Indonesia.

I think it is not that Rupiah is weakening, but because the USD is becoming stronger in the last three months, you could see that USD is also stronger against other major currencies, e.g GBP, EUR.

I herewith plot USD/IDR (blue), GBP/IDR (purple), EUR/IDR (Green)

The USD is gaining momentum of the current strong US economy. Yes inflation in the US is high, (which FED tries to fight) but inflation is also high anywhere else in Europe, but the unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the US history.

 

[pantaiema]

Your bank sets the limit and normally what you want it at. The ATM may have a limit but you can withdraw more than once. Find an ATM that is 3 juta. BNI has many with that rate especially in larger malls. Mandiri has some too. My US bank has no charge for ATM use so I only pay the local rate of about Rp2,000 per transaction. It is the only way I get money from my US bank. My wife and I can visit an ATM with our cards, make withdraws as we wish. Take some spending cash and deposit the rest in her local bank account. We found the rates we get with an ATM about the same as XE post in their app.

Unless, it is pre arranged, Many of debitcards will only allow people to withdraw cash from ATM less than USD1,000 a day. Majority are less than USD500. I think the limit is there to protect the person and the bank issuing the debitcard itself.

While your bank allow you to withdraw USD500, you can not do this in one go using Indonesian ATM due to the limitation of the machine itself, e.g.. the error free counting capability, and the size of the slot dispensing the cash. AFAIK in many cash-machines in Indonesia you could only withdraw maximum Rp.2.500.000 (e.g 25 x Rp100.000 notes), but you could do it multiple times.

 

[Samoerai]

I think it is not that Rupiah is weakening, but because the USD is becoming stronger in the last three months, you could see that USD is also stronger against other major currencies, e.g GBP, EUR.

I herewith plot USD/IDR (blue), GBP/IDR (purple), EUR/IDR (Green)

View attachment 2496


The USD is gaining momentum of the current strong US economy. Yes inflation in the US is high, (which FED tries to fight) but inflation is also high anywhere else in Europe, but the unemployment rate is one of the lowest in the US history.

True, economy of USA is strong. However your plot (3 months), in my opinion, is showing the effect of the international crisis (war) and the increase of interest rate (Fed). US dollar is a 'safe haven' for (international) investors when there is war and lately becoming more and more appealing (interest) compared to Euro, Pound or Rupiah. But, then again ... I am not an economist.