Aviation info.

[Davita]

Recent posts about Puspa, in Hawaii, and members wishing to visit en-route home has prompted this post.

It appears, on a flat map, that any flight from 'say' Jakarta to 'say' Chicago would be directly through/over Hawaii but this isn't the case when navigating.
Airlines generally fly what is called the 'Great Circle Route' which is the shortest distance between two points on the globe....and this can be interesting to show.....i.e. JKT-ORD....vv (btw I'm not saying a non-stop is practical)

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=ord-jkt&DU=mi&SU=kts&RS=best

This assumes still-air conditions so airlines modify the G.C. shortest route according to the prevailing winds. i.e. Flying across the Pacific they would fly much further south in the winter going east to get the tailwind...and conversely further north going west to avoid headwind.
Many other factors are also considered like non-stop flights fuel reserves at destination for alternate landings in case airfield closes due weather or other factors.

 

[Puspawarna]

In theory I know this, but in practice I always visualize flights as going either East-West or West-East. I'm always so surprised when I'm on a plane and we're taking a great circle route. You'd think I would know better by now, but it gets me every time.

 

[snpark]

When I lived in Dubai and flew regularly to NYC and LAX it was always suprising to see just how far North (thats up ^ ) the pilots went, well above the UK and almost North Pole area, it was white for many hours

I am sure all the pilots can explain why, I am too lazy to type it but it's to do with headwinds, cross winds, the airsteam jetstream etc etc

Of course some people think you can just fly up and wait for NYC to revolve round to you

 

[Davita]

When I lived in Dubai and flew regularly to NYC and LAX it was always suprising to see just how far North (thats up ^ ) the pilots went, well above the UK and almost North Pole area, it was white for many hours

I am sure all the pilots can explain why, I am too lazy to type it but it's to do with headwinds, cross winds, the airsteam jetstream etc etc

Of course some people think you can just fly up and wait for NYC to revolve round to you

Here is the Great Circle Route from Dubai (DXB) to Los Angeles (LAX)...it does indeed go pretty close to the North Pole. This becomes a problem for pilots as the magnetic compass goes haywire as it tries to point downwards....http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=dxb-lax&DU=mi&SU=kts

Re: your point about going outside earth's gravitational pull, and waiting for the world to turn, has merit and is part of the thinking in future travel. The world spins at about 1,000 mph so if we could suspend in a capsule we are effectively travelling west to east at that speed....but it only works in that direction.
East to west we'd be going backwards....

Just imagine a first-class ticket gets a ride in a rocket at say 4:00 pm, cocktails and dinner, a game of chance perhaps, or a movie, a good nights sleep, breakfast and Bloody Marys, lunch with a few glasses of champers and arrive back home with a hic-up....before you left or missed a day....depending on whether in a forward or backward facing seat....

 

[snpark]

I miss Concorde
Best marketing ever from BA - arrive before you leave
I think it was on opposite pages of the newspaper

 

[harryopal1]

I hate it when you are stuck in airport terminals for hours but the vagaries of actual routes depending on the factors indicated by Davita add an extra element of adventure. Flying from Australia to Johannesburg the flight dipped far anough south that we could actually see bloody big icebergs even from 35,000 feet. On another flight a storm somewhere or other forced an unexpected landing in Hong Kong and another time in Taiwan. Enjoy the unexpected (excuding long waits in terminals.).

 

[Davita]

It is frustrating when there are hold-ups and delays at airports but, considering the vast expansion that air travel has ballooned in the last 50 years, due mainly to budget airlines offering cheap fares, it surprises me the infrastructure has even managed. The area needing most attention by governments is Air Traffic Control (ATC).
Here is a quick pic of all active aircraft world-wide just a few moments ago....just imagine the management needed to prevent accidental collisions at closing speeds of +/-1200 mph.

https://www.flightradar24.com/-8.75,115.17/2

 

[waarmstrong]

Interesting stuff, but largely peripheral in our ticketing decisions. The most important considerations: how much does it cost & how long does it take. We also factor in the relative safety record of the airline and any external risk associated with the route, ie flying over or near war zones is to be avoided.

 

[Davita]

Interesting stuff, but largely peripheral in our ticketing decisions. The most important considerations: how much does it cost & how long does it take. We also factor in the relative safety record of the airline and any external risk associated with the route, ie flying over or near war zones is to be avoided.

waarmstrong's post explores a good idea.

Maybe move this thread (Aviation info), or Mods can create a similar (I think called a sticky), and place under the Travel heading. Members can then post any new info regarding good deals on tickets, new routes and info on safety concerns. It could include tips on how to get a better airline/airport experience as I'm sure we all suffer from long flights and airport delays.

This could be useful for expats to access when planning travel between Indonesia and their home country, or any member traveling Internationally for holidays, as it would keep all the pertinent info under one heading instead of being scattered under many.

To avoid clutter it could disregard local travel as that is well documented elsewhere.

 

[dafluff]

@Davita : I like it...lets see what everyone else thinks!

 

[waarmstrong]

Sounds good to me. We are planning an inter-island itinerary that goes something like this: Halim to Yogya for a few days; then a train ride to Nganjuk for a visit with friends; rent a car for a 5 hour drive to a Bromo base camp hostel; up for a sun rise trek up & down the mountain, followed by a drive to Malang where we catch a flight to Denpasar while the car goes back to Nganjuk. From Denpasar to Ubud by private taxi and back to the airport a few days later the same way. Fly to Bandung for the weekend at our favorite Dago Atas hotel. Hopefully our nephew can bring the car over and join us for the weekend before heading back with all the other B plates.

 

[Davita]

Sounds like an exciting trip....I would love to travel Indonesia like that but need upmarket hotels etc so I'd be very interested if you write about your experiences on this thread, or, better still....create a new one Maybe call it 'Indonesian Adventures' so all members could contribute and collate data on travelling the archipelago..
I'd especially appreciate you posting about using Halim airport....that could be useful as more airlines are using it.

Malang is a small airport....I was intrigued when they said we should wait at gate No. 3...I asked the ground attendant where was gate 1 & 2 and she smiled and said...."We only have gate No.3".

Don't envy your last trip Bandung-Jakarta....been-there done-that....not wanting to repeat..
Did it once by train but from Gambir station to our apartment in Permata Hijau wasn't a holiday either

 

[waarmstrong]

Sounds like an exciting trip....I would love to travel Indonesia like that but need upmarket hotels etc so I'd be very interested if you write about your experiences on this thread, or, better still....create a new one Maybe call it 'Indonesian Adventures' so all members could contribute and collate data on travelling the archipelago..
I'd especially appreciate you posting about using Halim airport....that could be useful as more airlines are using it.

Malang is a small airport....I was intrigued when they said we should wait at gate No. 3...I asked the ground attendant where was gate 1 & 2 and she smiled and said...."We only have gate No.3".

Don't envy your last trip Bandung-Jakarta....been-there done-that....not wanting to repeat..
Did it once by train but from Gambir station to our apartment in Permata Hijau wasn't a holiday either

We have used and plan to continue to use Halim for flights around the archipelago mainly because it's close by, less congested, less formal and less expensive to access and usually has the flights we want. The Sunday car ride back to Jakarta from Bandung is not a bad as coming home from the Puncak, but agreed, its not much fun. If our nephew cannot come over, we will probably opt for the train back to Jakarta although we get off at Jatinegara rather than Gambir.

 

[Davita]

News from JG ....Seems the new railway link to the airport is affected....

"On Monday afternoon, a rail bridge near Soekarno-Hatta International Airport collapsed because of the heavy rains, a spokesman for airport operator Angkasa Pura II, Yado Yarisman, said in a statement.
A car was buried under the bridge and rescuers struggled to remove it from the rubble.
"The airport train service has been temporarily suspended," Yado said."

 

[Davita]

Waarmstrong's point about the increasing use of Halim in Jakarta is relevant..... post # 15.

More and more airlines use Halim as Jakarta is getting overcrowded in aircraft movements. They plan a new runway.

This can be tricky when booking a flight online as you may not notice, if inputting Jakarta as the destination, that it may offer Halim when the intention is to arrive at Cengkaring or v.v.
Knowing how stingy the budget airlines are to change tickets it may be an expensive mistake. Air Asia wouldn't let me change because I'd inadvertently ticked my name as flying as well as booking where I should have put my wife's surname (same as mine) as the passenger. That cost me a return ticket DPS-CGK-DPS.

It may help if you input CGK as Cenkaring (Jakarta International) and HLP as Halim. Also, DPS is Bali's airport code.

 

[snpark]

Lol actually I was being serious, shouldn't she be pulling down on the right side of the prop, clockwise?


I just googled it, and yes, they rotate clockwise, so that's what's wrong with the pic!!! Plus no safety boots, hard hat, googles, hi-vis vest etc

 

[Davita]

Lol actually I was being serious, shouldn't she be pulling down on the right side of the prop, clockwise?


I just googled it, and yes, they rotate clockwise, so that's what's wrong with the pic!!! Plus no safety boots, hard hat, googles, hi-vis vest etc

I've really, really had to adjust my thinking...you may be correct. But does it mean clockwise from the front or from the back. If only we could get the prop-swinger to turn around we'd be better equipped to solve the question...

Seriously...the props pitch on that aircraft means they go around anticlockwise looking from the front....so she is holding the correct prop but the lack of safety equipment is regretful....I'd really like to speak with her about that.

Another thing about airplane props...as Anglian I'm sure can attest...they can hypnotize. I've seen a ground-handler walk straight into a Bristol Freighter prop-driven aircraft only to be saved by a rugby-tackle to the ground.

 

[Anglian]

On a serious note, doesn't the prop spin clockwise not anticlockwise? Shouldn't that engineer be on the other side?

Jet engines that are built in the states revolve in the opposite directions to British engines, I’m not 100% certain that British piston engines rotate opposite to American as its many years since working on piston engines aircraft,But I think they do, silly me didn’t notice the chocks were missing,

 

[snpark]

It's a single prop, apparantly multi prop do have a combo of clock and anti clockwise ?

 

[Davita]

It's a single prop, apparantly multi prop do have a combo of clock and anti clockwise ?

I don't know if there is any policy but single-prop aircraft do seem to rotate anti-clockwise looking from the front. I flew on 4-engined Hastings with props and I'm sure they went clockwise looking from the front. We used to count how many blades passed the upright before feeding the fuel so proving all cylinders were clear.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handley_Page_Hastings

Some aircraft were built with the engines on one wing rotating opposite the engines on the other wing. This has the benefit of reducing torque and gyroscopic effects.
Multi-props are called contra-rotating and they use a gearbox to drive one prop one way and the other on the same spool the other way...this also negates torque and gyro effect and is used on more powerful engines where the power cannot be absorbed by one propellor unless it was so big the prop-tips would go supersonic