Anyone Care To Fly United Airlines

He is a doctor so probably fairly intelligent. Good chance he has lawyers as friends. He will probably sue and it will be settled out of court. United will give in because the unfavorable publicity will cost them a lot more than in a court room saying, "you have no grounds to sue" will cost. I doubt he will need any solid grounds with social media involved and blood always gets the sympathizers.
 
United basically did everything wrong.

They needed 4 volunteers and got 3. No big deal. They could have randomly selected someone(might have been him, maybe not) to be the 4th person. Unless United's people were in uniform, no one would have known. overbooking happens all the time.

They wanted the Dr. to give up his seat after he had already boarded. This was the major mistake as it should have before the boarding process began.

I read that if you are asked to give up your seat you can get 400% of the ticket value.
 
Just really badly handled. They supposedly went up to $1000 each for their VDB offer, but handling it in this way will cost them many millions in lost business.
 
just when I thought lion air is the worst airline in the world.......

United came up, yanked their own passenger then beat them up, while others documented the whole things up

if I'm the doctor, I'd sue them and ask at least 200million dollars compensation. Gung ho all out attack mode on...
 
kratos said:
if I'm the doctor, I'd sue them and ask at least 200million dollars compensation. Gung ho all out attack mode on...
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I'd be interested to know who you would sue and what would be the reason for the suit.
I'm aware there may be many bottom-feeder lawyers in litigious USA grovelling to be your client... but I'd suggest you employ them pro-bono including absorbing all costs if you don't succeed. The airlines have the law in their favor...unless something was missed.

BTW the airline operating on that United route was actually Republic Airlines as a cost-sharing airline....

"The flight was operated for United by Republic Airline, which United hires to fly United Express flights. Mr Munoz said four Republic employees approached United's gate agents after the plane was fully loaded and said they needed to board. He said the airline asked for volunteers to give up their seats, and then moved to involuntary bumping, offering up to $1,000 in compensation."

United lost US$ One Billion of its market value (6%) on Wall Street opening today but half has returned...wait till the market closes.

Most crews deadheading directly to work are offered pax seats if they are on duty immediately after disembarking at destination. On short flights, if they have a rest before their next flight, they could have taken a couple of seats in the flight deck and sat in some vacant flight attendant seats in the doorways.
 
Davita said:
I watched the video and still do not see what he can sue for other than a potential breach of contract (good luck). That's what I would have threatened and squeezed an 'out of court' settlement. The airlines in USA seem to have this fairly well covered and it isn't the first time passengers have been removed after boarding. Also, flights get canceled, or diverted to other airports, all the time....I've never heard of a 'breach of contract' in those cases.

On the other hand he disobeyed a legal order by the police/security to deplane...that in itself could have made him subject to an arrest. If he wishes to sue for the way he was handled then surely that has nothing to do with the airline. It wasn't airline employees who removed him...it was airport security. BTW, I read one of them has been suspended....I'm guessing the one with the crap jeans.

I'm not condoning the ridiculous situation...I think it was deplorable. I'm just playing Devil's advocate on the legal aspect.
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Are you sure it was a lawful order?
 
Davita said:
I watched the video and still do not see what he can sue for other than a potential breach of contract (good luck). That's what I would have threatened and squeezed an 'out of court' settlement. The airlines in USA seem to have this fairly well covered and it isn't the first time passengers have been removed after boarding. Also, flights get canceled, or diverted to other airports, all the time....I've never heard of a 'breach of contract' in those cases.

On the other hand he disobeyed a legal order by the police/security to deplane...that in itself could have made him subject to an arrest. If he wishes to sue for the way he was handled then surely that has nothing to do with the airline. It wasn't airline employees who removed him...it was airport security. BTW, I read one of them has been suspended....I'm guessing the one with the crap jeans.

I'm not condoning the ridiculous situation...I think it was deplorable. I'm just playing Devil's advocate on the legal aspect.
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Apparently their 46 pg. policy covers preboarding ( I don't know I am not a lawyer and have not read their 46 pg. policy). Also, I don't know if it covers employees. (I am sure they had their team of lawyers working on this before the CEO's 2nd statement standing behind security and the airlines employees) Aside from these 2 points the lawyer made, I don't believe the airline asking for volunteers has the right to escalate a situation with a non disorderly customer (he was initially non disorderly) to the point of assault. He explained his circumstances i.e. I am a Dr. and need to be back to see patients. This last part is the security but they are implementing airline policy i.e. the right to bump preboarded customers for other paying customers not for non paying employees. This man did not look like a "volunteer." The whole situation occurred not because of the airline overbooking but as a last minute company decision to place employees over a person who had payed for his ticket and boarded the airplane i.e. breach of contract.

I would also say this whole thing calls into question the policy of being able to overbook and they should not have the right to pull someone off a flight who has already paid and been seated. They do have other options as many have said i.e. upping the incentives for someone to "volunteer" again this is not this customers fault if the airline staff failed to do this and indeed could indicate a lack of training. There is no way they should be able to pull this guy off the plane after assaulting him (again he was a non disorderly customer until the airline created this situation).
 
William King said:
Are you sure it was a lawful order?
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If the Aircraft Captain or On-Duty Police/Security with authority orders a passenger off the Aircraft under any circumstance...that is a lawful order. If the person then wishes to litigate they are at liberty to do so.
It's the same as a restaurant or bar owner able to order a customer off his/her premise...they have the right. The customer also has the right to litigate a complaint.
Neither have the right to remain where they are...that then becomes a police arresting issue.

Daniel50 said:
( I don't know I am not a lawyer and have not read their 46 pg. policy).
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Neither am I a lawyer nor have I read the policy....we will need to wait and see if he sues and the nature of the suit. Those hypothetical points you posted will then be explored.
There are many, many ways this situation was very badly handled to everyone's dissatisfaction.....I agree.
But, as far as the legal point is concerned, I'll be looking for that when/if the lawyers prepare the case. Generally, in similar cases, they plan based on an 'out of court' settlement and the Companies accede as they are afraid of negative publicity for their product.
This case has overblown publicity anyway and probably couldn't get any worse. If, as has been suggested, the aggrieved person then sues for US$200M I believe the Airline will go to court and play it out. I'd hate to be a CEO and explain to investors the loss of $200M and inspiring the potential, down the road, for further claims of that magnitude.
 
Actually I believe United Airlines is around the middle of the pack when it comes to bumping. There are airlines that bump more people in the US.. Now they are bringing up this guys past, he was convicted more then 10 years ago of felony charges involving prescribing drugs and spent years trying to get his medical licence back (as reported in the media). Well he got it back and how does that change what happened? He may not be a saint but I hope he gets a nice settlement and I hope this helps some of the airlines take a look at there overbooking policy and how it is implemented i.e. perhaps not redefine volunteer.

Today United CEO is being more contrite. Rather then re-accommodating or the airline was right now he is "disturbed", he "deeply apologizes" and "no one should ever be treated this way". Damage control mode on.
 
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Well to add insult to injury they are now digging up the doctors past, that has nothing to do with it, now the Chinese are accusing united a racialism
 
Anglian said:
Well to add insult to injury they are now digging up the doctors past, that has nothing to do with it, now the Chinese are accusing united a racialism
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It was the #1 topic trending, on Twitter, in the US yesterday with people coming up with there own United slogans and it had over 100 million views on China social media yesterday, with calls for a boycott. I think China is also a market United is trying to gain a bigger foothold in. Well at least the CEO is "saying" he is sorry and no one should ever be treated that way blah blah blah blah.
 
Daniel50 said:
Actually I believe United Airlines is around the middle of the pack when it comes to bumping. There are airlines that bump more people in the US.. I hope this helps some of the airlines take a look at there overbooking policy and how it is implemented
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Overbooking is done because, almost since the beginning of airline travel, passengers were permitted to cancel or change flights with impunity. It was common for secretaries to book seats for their busy bosses on nearly every flight on any given day...they would just cancel those not used. Those were the days when airline travel was for the wealthy...us impecunious took a bus or train....or, almost forgot...hitch-hiked :ohwell:

If regulations were imposed such that once a flight was chosen a no-show for the flight would have the full-fare still be charged, or, if canceled within a given time-frame a penalty or surcharge applied then, maybe, overbooking could be eliminated.

This would still require a proviso, in exceptional circumstances, to remove passengers or not accept boarding.....then reasonable compensation would be required.

I believe most International (branded) Airlines do apply less overbooking and more reasonable compensation than domestic carriers in the USA.
 
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Nimbus said:
Another story just surfaced about a different passenger. If United has the chutzpah to threaten a first class passenger paying full fare, no wonder they see no issue with roughing up an old Chinese doctor flying economy.


http://www.latimes.com/business/laz...ed-low-priority-passenger-20170412-story.html
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That's a great find Nimbus and, in context, better expresses United Airlines PR shabbiness. This gentleman did nothing to create to create a problem. I'd hope he can get better compensated now this airline is in the public cross-hairs. Maybe it's time for the US Transportation Regulators to get involved.
In the old days they could get their licence to operate withdrawn but now there is little competition as most airlines have consolidated into a few giants...it's impossiblt to do that as millions of passengers would be stranded.
It is the same here in Indonesia when recently, the RI Gov't threatened Lion Air. If Lion Air was not permitted to fly imagine what would happen to all their passengers when there are few alternative ways to travel.
 
Davita said:
If regulations were imposed such that once a flight was chosen a no-show for the flight would have the full-fare still be charged, or, if canceled within a given time-frame a penalty or surcharge applied then, maybe, overbooking could be eliminated.
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In my experience almost every US airline already is this way, and yet they still overbook because it's an opportunity to make money twice off one seat. I understand the economics of it (opportunity cost, etc) but it comes at a sacrifice to customer service, often in small ways, but occasionally it will blow up like this story.

Southwest and Jetblue don't overbook, I try to go with them for US domestic travel.
 
R Cameron said:
Southwest and Jetblue don't overbook, I try to go with them for US domestic travel.
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Actually southwest are almost as bad (officially) as United, although ive never faced a problem with either myself. http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/04/daily-chart-6

I do think this is a trend in the US though to try to squeeze out every cent of margin. I even had a problem with hotels before not having the room type that i booked and prepaid for available as apparently the prepayment only means a room guarantee - not the type. Oh and car rental places seem to do this as standard too. Many times i have been pushed to take even a lesser model. I generally stand my ground in hotels and car rentals until i get what i paid for or better but its a problem if you are travelling in a group and need a certain number of seats of beds.
 
I don't mind them overbooking as a strategy to maximize revenue, but not at the cost of throwing people off the plane. Look, the airlines' bean counters have calculated the statistics, and they have earned millions in selling otherwise empty cancelled seats. In the inevitable instances where there are actually more passengers than seats, then they should be really generous toward those who volunteer to take the next flight. In any event, once you are assigned a seat and board the plane, you should not be forced to leave except for real security reasons. I don't care if you have an elite premier ultra platinum imperial mileage status with singing angels, you don't get to deplane people. You can bump people off during boarding, but not when everybody is on the plane, otherwise you'll subject passengers to unnecessary and undeserved violence.

Here's Delta for comparison:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurab...-to-fly-to-florida-this-weekend/#5e6e580a4de1
 
R Cameron said:
In my experience almost every US airline already is this way, and yet they still overbook because it's an opportunity to make money twice off one seat. I understand the economics of it (opportunity cost, etc) but it comes at a sacrifice to customer service, often in small ways, but occasionally it will blow up like this story.

Southwest and Jetblue don't overbook, I try to go with them for US domestic travel.
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If that's true then more reason for regulators to get involved.

It doesn't make sense that airlines overbook to increase revenue...it makes sense they insure against losing revenue if there is a no-show, and have to refund, and cannot fill the seat with someone else.
That's why there is bumped compensation up to 4 times the seat price plus the cost of overnight etc...so I don't see that as viable for the airline to profit. Also, they need to get the bumped passenger onto another flight.
They would only get twice the cost if the no-show was penalized for the full-fare.

Budget airlines generally don't have the same issue because they don't offer refunds on their normal fare structure or promos...only on premium fares. I know because I've lost the fare to Air Asia a few times by a no-show....but once succeeded by showing a doctor's certificate that I was in hospital.
 
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