4/11, 25/11 and 2/12 anti-Ahok demonstrations

[Daniel50]

I imagine there were some deals reached ahead of everything.

 

[fastpitch17]

I think the arrest last night and this morning sent a message out.

 

[El_Goretto]

Yes deals were made but those arrests from Jokowi were quite timely!

Now, does this set a precedent?

Weren't some lawmakers talking about doing the exact same thing just after the last presidential elections? Namely, revising the constitution so that the MPR has more power to impeach the president?

 

[dafluff]

All in all, I have to give some respect to the organizers who managed to assemble what looks like hundred thousand plus people, and have them demonstrate peacefully. They even cleaned up after themselves.

Also kudos to Jokowi, who has so far managed the situation much better than a carpenter from Solo has right to. There are obviously some deals behind the scenes that were made, as evidenced by a much more relaxed Jokowi the past few days. His willingness to meet with and pray together with the demonstrators also suggests this.

 

[PhilippeD]

I'm very happy to see this saga of demo ending in peace with no more word from FPI.

I made a search on google about "Ahok" and it don't return that much.

One of the article mention Ahok being second on the vote intention... go figure out, after "Trump" we don't trust anymore those number!
Those number were pulsed before the arrest for treason, which can have huge effect on the following event.

If Ahok is find guilty it will be the end for him.
If not, then speculation start!

Me, I believe it have great chance it will be found not guilty and maybe some more arrest after/while the circus.
And he will be voted mayor again.

What is your take?

 

[PhilippeD]

addition:

The article I mentionned "Hard for Ahok to bounce back: Expert" is a bit twisted.
There is no mention of the other reason for demo than Ahok, while we all know people were there in majority for ask for salary raise.
And plenty of weak assumption on the like of: "Friday that the rally had proven the public resistance against Ahok" - when we know the first demo was full of bussed and paid people, the second was cancel because no more bussed and money and no one want join and the third is a melting pot of 3 demo in same time where it's very hard to tell exactly for which reason people where there exactly (my guest is they were there for the money - salary raise)

 

[Bad_azz]

I was chatting with someone yesterday & he was telling me about his friend who had been offered (taken) money to join the demo (a student, I believe).
I asked my friend what he would do if he was offered cash to go- he said "take it of course & go, a free trip to the capital & money in my pocket, why not"
I then asked what he thought of the reasoning & politics & did he agree with them seeing as he would take the cash to go to a demo... he laughed & said "it is all bullshit, but yes I would take the cash , & the ride , buy a few beers and leave the idiots to the protest"

This person is a young (23-25ish) male muslim guy.

 

[kroshka]

I wonder how much he was paid...

 

[Anglian]

It's quite sad to see such a large crowd with a possible IQ of about ten, demoing against a man who could start a new era of non corruption at Jakarta if voted Governor,

you cannot believe that one honest Chinese Christian could put the fear into so many Muslims, pathetic

 

[PhilippeD]

It's quite sad to see such a large crowd with a possible IQ of about ten, demoing against a man who could start a new era of non corruption at Jakarta if voted Governor,

you cannot believe that one honest Chinese Christian could put the fear into so many Muslims, pathetic

Anglian, I think you miss some point:

THE POPULATION IS NOT AFFRAID
Just read the upper post of B_A, nobody give a f*** of the demo, they go there because they are paid for and receive a free lunch. For many "from-out-of-town" it's a rare occasion to make a trip to the capital and see the tall building.
The only person who are affraid are not the Muslim it's the corrupted and it's not the fact Ahok is christian that disturb them... it's more about the "honest" part that cut the corruption, which mean they pocket money.
The religion is just an excuse for put out the real anti-corruption.

POLITICAL CORRECTNESS
I believe it will happen the same "trump effect" at the voting time.
Most of the mass that make a demo are from OUTSIDE of town, not the one that would vote.
The present poll said Ahok is loosing ground... but seriously, ask any Muslim if they would vote for someone who is accused of blasphemy they will answer you the politically correct answer: no
When it will be time for vote, their hand will said something else than there mouth.

FALSE DEMO
The people who was there really for the demo (not paid for being there) where there for the increase of minimal salary.
But all media told us it was for Ahok to be jail - this is a clear distortion of the reality.
The union demo was planned since a while, the anti Ahok can't have people in their demo (they cancel the one on 25 nov.) and join the union demo and have the media said all those people where there for there cause (anti-Ahok).
This is all political bullshit and manipulation of media.

 

[Anglian]

I realise quite a few at the demo aren't from Jakarta, as I mentioned previously of the six mosques close to me only one had Friday prayers, the mosque closest to me was closed, never seen that before, the usual Friday traffic jams not there, and I live in Tangerang, my daughter s shop didn't have a single customer, plus no car traffic on a busy road, her area Bintaro, part again of Tangerang, I fully appreciate quite a number at the demo didn't reside in jakarta, my point is that you could get such a large crowd of stupid people being led by their noses or a free lunch

many ordinary people were apprehensive of the outcome of the Demo, fortunately good sense prevailed, I think Jowowi helped to calm The situation, where some hoped for a reveloution

 

[Daniel50]

Yes this is true Anglian. There appears to be a pro diversity march. I was going to start a thread some time ago: Why Anglian could possibly be the coolest guy, most interesting character on the forum ,but did not. I was also going to open it to others, perhaps others believe they are the most interesting. hahaha.

 

[Nimbus]

Jokowi needs to be careful. While this started as a strictly political move, it's slowly morphing into a religious one. If the narrative is successfully changed into the defense of Islam in the mind of the masses, things can only get worse.

 

[El_Goretto]

Here's an interesting take on the anti-Ahok demonstrations by Greg Fealy at the University of Melbourne:

Bigger than Ahok: explaining the 2 December mass rally

I wonder why the author completely omitted the arrests made on the December 2 for treason because they definitely show that there are more powers at play here. Clearly, if the "traitors" had had their way, Habib must have been in on it.

 

[Daniel50]

In talking with some Indonesians they cannot remember an event that brought together so many Muslims, in a march against blasphemy. Maybe it is naive to put so much emphasis on money and power. The religious element is quite strong in Indonesian society. Unless the Muslim majority wants to curb the Islamists and take action, it won't happen. The minorities are generally dismissed as less important than Muslims, in Indonesia. But of course if you are the wrong brand of Muslim or not Muslim enough this can also be a problem. If it is not dealt with this will only grow and one can look at other countries to see the effects.

 

[Nimbus]

Here's an interesting take on the anti-Ahok demonstrations by Greg Fealy at the University of Melbourne:

Bigger than Ahok: explaining the 2 December mass rally

I wonder why the author completely omitted the arrests made on the December 2 for treason because they definitely show that there are more powers at play here. Clearly, if the "traitors" had had their way, Habib must have been in on it.

Thanks for this accurate commentary. I felt that the movement has reached the next level when one of my high school friends openly spoke in support of it. He's has never been a hardliner, so his statement is significant to me. There are other friends who support it from the beginning, but these are firmly religious folks who I butted heads with, so no surprise there.

Regardless of who started it, I don't think there's a chance for Ahok now. Interesting times we live in.

 

[PhilippeD]

Here's an interesting take on the anti-Ahok demonstrations by Greg Fealy at the University of Melbourne:

Bigger than Ahok: explaining the 2 December mass rally

I wonder why the author completely omitted the arrests made on the December 2 for treason because they definitely show that there are more powers at play here. Clearly, if the "traitors" had had their way, Habib must have been in on it.

Because it don't fit with his agenda.
He would need to rewrite all his article from "it's because of extremist Muslim" to "it's because of political power who use extremist for their end".
Not catchy at all, who would read that?
Better give what people want: it's all because of extremist muslim, end of the story.


not acknowledging the political force behind the 2/12 is being totaly off the mark of what really happen. intentionally or not.

 

[Davita]

I didn't read of the money that was handed out to attend. My bank manager said all her staff were offered cash to go to the rally. Maybe the Gov't should allow lots of rallies and wait till the funding supply dwindles.

 

[PhilippeD]

With a few arrested for treason I think the money just run out!


Does anyone have news about the one who have been arrested? What will happen with them?

 

[William King]

Better give what people want: it's all because of extremist muslim, end of the story.


not acknowledging the political force behind the 2/12 is being totaly off the mark of what really happen. intentionally or not.

That's not exactly what he said.

The rally stunned Jokowi and his inner circle. They now realised the depth of animosity towards Ahok, whom Jokowi had been supporting in the Jakarta gubernatorial election scheduled for February 2017. They were also convinced that much of the mobilisation was orchestrated by Jokowi’s political enemies, chief among them former President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, whose son, Agus Harimurti, was one of Ahok’s rivals for the governorship.

They were also helped by political groups exploiting the issue to assist Ahok’s rivals and destabilise Jokowi’s leadership. These groups distributed huge sums for transport, food and water for participants to maximize attendance at the rally. For these political actors, religion is simply an instrument to gain political advantage.