Back as an upper-middle income country, but will Indonesia be trapped there?

[Nimbus]

Hmm, the behaviour of high school kids is a bit shocking to me also. They hang out in the mall (in uniforms) e.g. in Starbucks. Loud. Drinking their frappucino's. And then leave without cleaning up the table or throwing their garbage in the bin. Expecting the workers will clean up. Actually, the behaviour of the adults is also not up to par. In the Netherlands you would be addressed and asked to considerate of other people.

Part of it is misunderstanding of expectations, the other part is indifference.

Here in USA you’re expected to remove the trash from your table when eating at anything other than a sit-down restaurant served by waiters. In Indonesia the vast majority of places have dedicated bussers who clear and wipe the tables for you. I was dining at several different food court style places in Jakarta and Bandung, and was confused when I couldn’t find the tray return stations / trash cans. Well, they weren’t available because there was a roving busser with a push cart who cleaned the tables. In other word, you’re not expected to clear the table yourself.

Basically, only Western/American fastfood places in Indonesia expect their patrons to clear the table. Because labor is so cheap, the restaurants are not hurting if they employ a dedicated busser, since that is the same guy wiping the table after every customer anyway. Most establishments in Indonesia seem overstaffed, but unfortunately it doesn’t always translate to better service.

 

[Balifrog]

The Metals Company (TMC) from Cananda? This company is likely to start next month with deep sea mining. The new gold fever rush. Good investment!

There have been 31 exploration licenses granted covering a total area of 1.5 million square kilometers, of which 25 are owned by seven countries (China, Japan, South Korea, Germany, Russia, France and India) and three companies in Belgium, Canada and the US, in particular for the extraction of manganese nodules, and mainly focused on the Clarion-Clipperton Zone, an area in the Eastern Pacific Ocean.

Correct, that's the one.
Did very good recently although it pulled back.


Concerning the greenies and treehuggers : there are 250 off shore oil / gas drilling plateforms operating in the world visibly without disturbing that magnifient deepsea wildlife !
And now everybody goes mad about a few nodules operations, that work without drilling BTW !

 

[SamR]

I was raised by pembantu too, and I don’t turn out too bad.

I daresay it's a crapshoot. I've seen kids who become full of empathy for those who are of a lower social class, I've seen kids who horrify their parents by becoming better at whatever regional language the pembantu uses than English, and yes I've seen kids who after being spoiled by their parents are also spoiled by the pembantu.

 

[harryopal1]

Evidence of damage from deep sea mining is carried today in a story today in The Guardian.

Deep-sea mining causes huge decreases in sealife across wide region, says study

Scientists caution against rush to mine the seabed, and say it could be decades before the full impact on marine life is known

www.theguardian.com

Those who are concerned about the environment will see this as further worrying evidence of probable long term danger from mining. Those who haves shares in mining companies will see this as left wing propaganda. Given the major problem of plastic pollution across the world's seas with micro particles found in food used by humans I am inclined towards seeing deep sea mining this as a serious issue. Corporations involved in mining spend huge amounts of money and exercise political influence to try and limit publicity which might impinge upon their profits. Not unlike the decades of campaigning by tobacco interests denying the toxic nature of cigarettes smoking.

 

[harryopal1]

Correct, that's the one.
Did very good recently although it pulled back.


Concerning the greenies and treehuggers : there are 250 off shore oil / gas drilling plateforms operating in the world visibly without disturbing that magnifient deepsea wildlife !
And now everybody goes mad about a few nodules operations, that work without drilling BTW !

A few nodules? Here is a list of 15 major oil spills.

15 Major Oil Spills Of The Maritime World

Marine Insight - The maritime industry guide.

www.marineinsight.com

 

[Balifrog]

Evidence of damage from deep sea mining is carried today in a story today in The Guardian.

Deep-sea mining causes huge decreases in sealife across wide region, says study

Scientists caution against rush to mine the seabed, and say it could be decades before the full impact on marine life is known

www.theguardian.com

Those who are concerned about the environment will see this as further worrying evidence of probable long term danger from mining. Those who haves shares in mining companies will see this as left wing propaganda. Given the major problem of plastic pollution across the world's seas with micro particles found in food used by humans I am inclined towards seeing deep sea mining this as a serious issue. Corporations involved in mining spend huge amounts of money and exercise political influence to try and limit publicity which might impinge upon their profits. Not unlike the decades of campaigning by tobacco interests denying the toxic nature of cigarettes smoking.

View attachment 3243

"after drilling tests in 2020 in Japan – the country’s first successful extraction of cobalt crusts from deep-sea mountains "

Obviously the guy hasn't done a lot of research on the subject and still mixes up deep sea DRILLING (same drilling for oil) and deep sea nodule collection....

 

[Balifrog]

A few nodules? Here is a list of 15 major oil spills.

15 Major Oil Spills Of The Maritime World

Marine Insight - The maritime industry guide.

www.marineinsight.com

Re read my post please.

Or let me explain : the greenies go mad on deep sea mining (by mean of a crawler "brooming" the nodules from the seafloor). No drilling involved.

But they say nothing about the 250+ off shore drilling plateforms that drill deep IN the seabed to extract oil or gas.

Compare picking up rocks laying ON the beach and using a jackhammer to get the materiel that is 1m UNDER the surface.

 

[harryopal1]

N

"after drilling tests in 2020 in Japan – the country’s first successful extraction of cobalt crusts from deep-sea mountains "

Obviously the guy hasn't done a lot of research on the subject and still mixes up deep sea DRILLING (same drilling for oil) and deep sea nodule collection....

Whether it is drilling for oil or nodules it is still deep sea mining. Mining is generally defined as is the process of extracting useful materials from the earth.

 

[Samoerai]

TMC did very good recently although it pulled back.

And this is why. News, 13 July 2023

Why The Metals Company Stock Is Plunging Today | The Motley Fool

The U.K. is the latest to join a wave of opposition against the nascent deep sea mining industry.

www.fool.com

 

[Balifrog]

N

Whether it is drilling for oil or nodules it is still deep sea mining. Mining is generally defined as is the process of extracting useful materials from the earth.

Bloody hell, THERE IS NO DRILLING INVOLVED !
Watch the video I.posted before insisting !

 

[Balifrog]

And this is why. News, 13 July 2023

Why The Metals Company Stock Is Plunging Today | The Motley Fool

The U.K. is the latest to join a wave of opposition against the nascent deep sea mining industry.

www.fool.com

Nope, mainly profit taking....
When a stock gains 200% (means x 3) people logically take at least a partial profit.
And when it goes up with 10 x the average daily volume it means that some big guys are "playing" to put it politely.

PS : Motley Fool is NOT a reliable source for investing !

 

[snpark]

My job is boring
Yes I'm a drill pipe mechanic

Drop a piano down a mineshaft and get A Flat Minor

 

[Wisnu]

Bloody hell, THERE IS NO DRILLING INVOLVED !
Watch the video I.posted before insisting !

This one?

 

[Balifrog]

My job is boring
Yes I'm a drill pipe mechanic

Drop a piano down a mineshaft and get A Flat Minor

Deep piling / foundation equipment mechanic here.

 

[harryopal1]

Bloody hell, THERE IS NO DRILLING INVOLVED !
Watch the video I.posted before insisting !

Drilling or extracting it is still mining. "Mining is generally defined as is the process of extracting useful materials from the earth."

By the way, "bloody hell' is term with English origins but is sacred for Australians. Non Australians using this expression are committing a form of blasphemy.

 

[Balifrog]

Drilling or extracting it is still mining. "Mining is generally defined as is the process of extracting useful materials from the earth."

By the way, "bloody hell' is term with English origins but is sacred for Australians. Non Australians using this expression are committing a form of blasphemy.

A) there is NO "extracting"... just picking up / collecting from the sea bottom
B) I don't care. Listening to the average language of Aussies here, I doubt they are so sensitive.

OK, now have a look at Bitcoin mining..... and the impact on the environment
BTW, do you have access to Youtube ?

 

[harryopal1]

Simple definition of extraction?
Extraction is the action of removing something.

Let's just agree to disagree. I don't think we need to meet at dawn with pistols and 12 paces.

 

[Hawk256]

Simple definition of extraction?
Extraction is the action of removing something.

Let's just agree to disagree. I don't think we need to meet at dawn with pistols and 12 paces.

Just my 2 cents. If you are walking down the beach and pick up some seashells are your really extracting them? If you go clam digging on the beach, do you conider that the same as just picking up shells?

 

[Balifrog]

Just my 2 cents. If you are walking down the beach and pick up some seashells are your really extracting them? If you go clam digging on the beach, do you conider that the same as just picking up shells?

Exactly the example I used to try to explain him....
Picking up rocks on the beach vs using a jackhammer to get the material 1 m below surface.

I abandon before losing my legendary smile....

 

[harryopal1]

It hardly worth quibbling about terminology whether picking up shells or extracting cobalt crusts from deep sea mountains. It is do with scale of activity as to whether or not it is harmful. On a much smaller scale, many attractive diving areas have been declared as marine reserves and people are asked not to remove shells, corals of other marine life as large number of tourists taking stuff can seriously degrade an area. I would be surprised if extracting cobalt from deep sea mountains did not create turbidity which then would presumably impact adjacent marine life.

If you have shares in a company extracting minerals from deep sea mountains then the suggestion that it has no impact is easy to accept. If you have environmental concerns relating to large scale commercial depletion of resources and extraction then the tendency is to regard with scepticism claims there are no negatives associated with this latest manner of extracting resources.

I don't see much point in continuing to argue which of us is right or wrong. It depends on our different points of view.